Green Bay Packers Forum

Welcome to your Green Bay Packers Online Community!

Since 2006, PackersHome has been providing a unique experience for fans.
Your participation is greatly anticipated!
Login or Register.
4 Pages<1234>
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, March 6, 2013 10:57:55 AM(UTC)

Rank: Member
Joined: 12/30/2010(UTC)
Applause Given: 153
Applause Received: 201
Porforis said: Go to Quoted Post
QB or P. Best player available or no, you don't need to draft someone that has zero value for your team when we've got holes to fill.


Isn't that how we got AR?

I agree with you, but I just found it ironic when I read this.
Offline play2win  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, March 6, 2013 12:07:55 PM(UTC)

Rank: Registered
United States
Joined: 3/29/2012(UTC)
Location: Milwaukee
Applause Given: 1,076
Applause Received: 724
QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
Isn't that how we got AR?

I agree with you, but I just found it ironic when I read this.


No. Favre's successor WAS a hole to fill. Without question. He had been feigning retirement for some time prior. The fact that Rodgers dropped in our laps was a giant stroke of good luck. He was mocked to go #4 to TB by Walter.

We had defensive needs at the time in our secondary. Walter had us mocked to pick CB R1, then to pick QB Charlie Frye R2. I saw Matt Cassel as our R1 pick in a Scout mock. So, word was out, and really, it was common knowledge that we needed a QB. Fave was entering his 14th season.

Not bustin' your balls QCHuskerFan, but that is the way it was then. I think nearly everyone thought, "well, OK..." when we went Rodgers. The pick made perfect sense. Favre had seemed invincible, but everyone knew his time was running out, and getting his replacement was imperative over those next two seasons.

Funny too, that those defensive needs were addressed with Ted's R2 pick of Nick Collins. What a draft!
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, March 6, 2013 12:45:51 PM(UTC)

Rank: Member
Joined: 12/30/2010(UTC)
Applause Given: 153
Applause Received: 201
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
No. Favre's successor WAS a hole to fill. Without question. He had been feigning retirement for some time prior. The fact that Rodgers dropped in our laps was a giant stroke of good luck. He was mocked to go #4 to TB by Walter.

We had defensive needs at the time in our secondary. Walter had us mocked to pick CB R1, then to pick QB Charlie Frye R2. I saw Matt Cassel as our R1 pick in a Scout mock. So, word was out, and really, it was common knowledge that we needed a QB. Fave was entering his 14th season.

Not bustin' your balls QCHuskerFan, but that is the way it was then. I think nearly everyone thought, "well, OK..." when we went Rodgers. The pick made perfect sense. Favre had seemed invincible, but everyone knew his time was running out, and getting his replacement was imperative over those next two seasons.

Funny too, that those defensive needs were addressed with Ted's R2 pick of Nick Collins. What a draft!


We look at value differently. Aaron Rodgers contributed nothing to the team in the 3 years after he was drafted. In hindsight, was it a great pick, yes. But to me, it offered zero value at the time. And for the following 2 years. Unique situation, though.

Don't distort history. There was a tremendous amount of criticism at the time. The team had immediate needs. They had gone 10-6 the previous season and were the #3 playoff seed. They were outclassed in Rd 1 of the playoffs. I would suggest that most people felt that team's window was small, just like right now. TT's pick addressed none of the needs that would get that team farther in the playoffs. Plenty of people were pissed! Favre was at the front of the line. Instead of giving him a player of immediate use, Ted Thompson chose someone that wouldn't see the field. Packers ended 2005 at 4-12 and out of the playoffs. Aaron Rodgers offered no value to that team or the following 2 years.

If Ted Thompson picked someone this year in the first round that was not expected would see the field this year, would you see value?
Offline Pack93z  
#19 Posted : Wednesday, March 6, 2013 12:52:30 PM(UTC)

PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Bronze: 2012

Rank: Select Member
United States
Joined: 3/16/2007(UTC)
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Applause Given: 410
Applause Received: 1,124
QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
We look at value differently. Aaron Rodgers contributed nothing to the team in the 3 years after he was drafted. In hindsight, was it a great pick, yes. But to me, it offered zero value at the time. And for the following 2 years. Unique situation, though.

Don't distort history. There was a tremendous amount of criticism at the time. The team had immediate needs. They had gone 10-6 the previous season and were the #3 playoff seed. They were outclassed in Rd 1 of the playoffs. I would suggest that most people felt that team's window was small, just like right now. TT's pick addressed none of the needs that would get that team farther in the playoffs. Plenty of people were pissed! Favre was at the front of the line. Instead of giving him a player of immediate use, Ted Thompson chose someone that wouldn't see the field. Packers ended 2005 at 4-12 and out of the playoffs. Aaron Rodgers offered no value to that team or the following 2 years.

If Ted Thompson picked someone this year in the first round that was not expected would see the field this year, would you see value?


In the same regard there are a couple of other factors.

1. Favre's yearly dance with retirement.. Rodgers slipping to us only helped push the timeline (by a couple of rounds maybe) the need to find a successor.

2. Additionally that was an aging team that had cap issues and some real depth concern, hence Sherman being relived by Thompson in the first place.

3. We currently still have a team with a relatively large window of opportunity with Rodgers at the helm to make some noise. Favre was closer to the end than the beginning and with the roster being turned over because of issue #2 it wasn't clear how fast the team could reload for a run.
Offline play2win  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:09:53 PM(UTC)

Rank: Registered
United States
Joined: 3/29/2012(UTC)
Location: Milwaukee
Applause Given: 1,076
Applause Received: 724
QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
We look at value differently. Aaron Rodgers contributed nothing to the team in the 3 years after he was drafted. In hindsight, was it a great pick, yes. But to me, it offered zero value at the time. And for the following 2 years. Unique situation, though.

Don't distort history. There was a tremendous amount of criticism at the time. The team had immediate needs. They had gone 10-6 the previous season and were the #3 playoff seed. They were outclassed in Rd 1 of the playoffs. I would suggest that most people felt that team's window was small, just like right now. TT's pick addressed none of the needs that would get that team farther in the playoffs. Plenty of people were pissed! Favre was at the front of the line. Instead of giving him a player of immediate use, Ted Thompson chose someone that wouldn't see the field. Packers ended 2005 at 4-12 and out of the playoffs. Aaron Rodgers offered no value to that team or the following 2 years.

If Ted Thompson picked someone this year in the first round that was not expected would see the field this year, would you see value?


I would be pissed.

And please, don't give me that distort history BS. I clearly said we needed help in the secondary going into that draft. AND we needed an eventual replacement for Favre. YOU are distorting history by saying we didn't need a QB.

Big difference with Rodgers going into his 8th season, vs. Favre going into his 14th.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, March 6, 2013 2:46:11 PM(UTC)

Rank: Member
Joined: 12/30/2010(UTC)
Applause Given: 153
Applause Received: 201
Please let me know where I said there was no need for a QB. I am saying that picking Aaron Rodgers with the number 1 pick brought no direct value to the team in 2005. Or 2006. Or 2007. Look it up. Let me know what I missed.

The original comment I responded to was Porforis saying that you don't draft someone in the first round with zero value when you have needs. I responded that's what Rodgers was. I am quite aware why it was done and it worked out incredibly well. But someone that doesn't start a game for 3 years and only plays in 7 total in that 3 year time is offering nothing to that team. The future team? Maybe. But AR's ~350 passing yards in 3 years is not an impact. He offered no value to the teams in 2005, 2006 or 2007. If Favre had retired the day after the draft in 2005, then he would have had immediate value. But Favre didn't.

You said, "I think nearly everyone thought, "well, OK..." when we went Rodgers. The pick made perfect sense. Favre had seemed invincible, but everyone knew his time was running out, and getting his replacement was imperative over those next two seasons." Nearly everyone did not think OK. Finding a replacement for Favre was a priority. But it was not necessary to draft that person in Rd 1, when there were other needs. Much of Packer Nation was quite upset. That is why I accused you of distorting history. Choosing to look at the past with rose colored glasses, does not change the past. Favre still had a tremendous amount of supporters that viewed this draft choice as the franchise turning their back on #4 as well as failing to make the team markedly better. Doesn't mean it wasn't the right choice. Just didn't make it overwhelmingly popular. Additionally, Favre played 6 years after that draft so it was not "imperative to get his replacement in the next 2 years" as you stated. But that's hindsight.

Did drafting Aaron Rodgers in the first round in 2005 work out well for the Pack? Duh. But that doesn't mean it offered value at the time.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, March 6, 2013 2:50:25 PM(UTC)

Rank: Member
Joined: 12/30/2010(UTC)
Applause Given: 153
Applause Received: 201
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
In the same regard there are a couple of other factors.

1. Favre's yearly dance with retirement.. Rodgers slipping to us only helped push the timeline (by a couple of rounds maybe) the need to find a successor.

2. Additionally that was an aging team that had cap issues and some real depth concern, hence Sherman being relived by Thompson in the first place.

3. We currently still have a team with a relatively large window of opportunity with Rodgers at the helm to make some noise. Favre was closer to the end than the beginning and with the roster being turned over because of issue #2 it wasn't clear how fast the team could reload for a run.


I sincerely hope you are correct in #3. I am concerned that after extending AR, Raji, Matthews, that the window will be very small. Those 3 could easily consume 30-35% of the CAP. I am not sure that is feasible for fielding a competitive team. I hope we can, but...
Offline play2win  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, March 6, 2013 2:52:33 PM(UTC)

Rank: Registered
United States
Joined: 3/29/2012(UTC)
Location: Milwaukee
Applause Given: 1,076
Applause Received: 724
QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
Please let me know where I said there was no need for a QB. I am saying that picking Aaron Rodgers with the number 1 pick brought no direct value to the team in 2005. Or 2006. Or 2007. Look it up. Let me know what I missed.

The original comment I responded to was Porforis saying that you don't draft someone in the first round with zero value when you have needs. I responded that's what Rodgers was. I am quite aware why it was done and it worked out incredibly well. But someone that doesn't start a game for 3 years and only plays in 7 total in that 3 year time is offering nothing to that team. The future team? Maybe. But AR's ~350 passing yards in 3 years is not an impact. He offered no value to the teams in 2005, 2006 or 2007. If Favre had retired the day after the draft in 2005, then he would have had immediate value. But Favre didn't.

You said, "I think nearly everyone thought, "well, OK..." when we went Rodgers. The pick made perfect sense. Favre had seemed invincible, but everyone knew his time was running out, and getting his replacement was imperative over those next two seasons." Nearly everyone did not think OK. Finding a replacement for Favre was a priority. But it was not necessary to draft that person in Rd 1, when there were other needs. Much of Packer Nation was quite upset. That is why I accused you of distorting history. Choosing to look at the past with rose colored glasses, does not change the past. Favre still had a tremendous amount of supporters that viewed this draft choice as the franchise turning their back on #4 as well as failing to make the team markedly better. Doesn't mean it wasn't the right choice. Just didn't make it overwhelmingly popular. Additionally, Favre played 6 years after that draft so it was not "imperative to get his replacement in the next 2 years" as you stated. But that's hindsight.

Did drafting Aaron Rodgers in the first round in 2005 work out well for the Pack? Duh. But that doesn't mean it offered value at the time.


This is such BS.

I clearly remember the boo birds lining the fence that 2005 training camp. I'm just talking about what I believe was the majority of Packers fans, understanding fully that we were going to have to address a replacement for Favre going into his 14th season. When a QB who was rated #1 overall for most of the period leading up to that draft, falls to 24, yeah, if you like him you take him. It is my belief MOST fans understood the move by Thompson that day.

I'll say this too, there is a twisted logic to thinking you can draft a player and immediately solve a problem. Most draftees require a good year of development at the pro level before they make significant contributions. Sure there are exceptions to that, but they are few. That is why I am pushing for Ted to make some good moves in FA this season. We need help now, and we've needed it in the same places for two years running, with no improvement.
Offline stevegb  
#24 Posted : Thursday, March 7, 2013 2:15:19 AM(UTC)

Rank: Member
Joined: 10/30/2006(UTC)
Applause Given: 16
Applause Received: 16
Outside of the obvious P and K in the first round my biggest WTF Ted selections would probably be in the CB position or maybe the OLB position. I think we are very deep at CB and I'd be a little upset if we gave up on Perry so early. Don't get me wrong I don't mind if we draft either a CB or OLB but I'd expect it to be at least 3rd round or later.

QB would be disappointing but NE continually draft highly touted QB's late in the first round and manage to trade them off for future mid-round picks+. We have a very good QB coaching staff in Green bay so I'd have confidence we could get some pretty good value for them, although Ted has never done anything to prove hes a very good trader.
Offline nerdmann  
#25 Posted : Thursday, March 7, 2013 9:18:04 AM(UTC)

Rank: Select Member
Joined: 9/14/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 3,310
Applause Received: 814
stevegb said: Go to Quoted Post
Outside of the obvious P and K in the first round my biggest WTF Ted selections would probably be in the CB position or maybe the OLB position. I think we are very deep at CB and I'd be a little upset if we gave up on Perry so early. Don't get me wrong I don't mind if we draft either a CB or OLB but I'd expect it to be at least 3rd round or later.

QB would be disappointing but NE continually draft highly touted QB's late in the first round and manage to trade them off for future mid-round picks+. We have a very good QB coaching staff in Green bay so I'd have confidence we could get some pretty good value for them, although Ted has never done anything to prove hes a very good trader.


We need as many stud OLBs as we can get.

And I expect Perry AND Moses to be able to get it done this year.
Offline Yerko  
#26 Posted : Tuesday, March 12, 2013 3:39:18 PM(UTC)

Rank: Senior Member
Joined: 10/15/2008(UTC)
Location: Chicago, IL
Applause Given: 178
Applause Received: 314
I'd be upset if we drafted defensive line in the first round.




:-"
Flapper
:-$
Offline play2win  
#27 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:31:57 AM(UTC)

Rank: Registered
United States
Joined: 3/29/2012(UTC)
Location: Milwaukee
Applause Given: 1,076
Applause Received: 724
Yerko said: Go to Quoted Post
I'd be upset if we drafted defensive line in the first round.




:-"
Flapper
:-$


Why?
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#28 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2013 6:19:06 AM(UTC)

Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Gold: 2014Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Silver: 2015

Rank: Veteran Member
United States
Joined: 3/4/2013(UTC)
Location: Texas
Applause Given: 547
Applause Received: 382
Yerko said: Go to Quoted Post
I'd be upset if we drafted defensive line in the first round.




:-"
Flapper
:-$


yeah, why? I'd be upset if we don't draft a D Lineman in the first round. To answer the original question of the thread, I think RB in round one would tick me off the most. It's so easy to get good ones on the scrap heap, and so difficult - basically a crapshoot whether a first round pick becomes a star player.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
play2win on 3/13/2013(UTC)
Offline wpr  
#29 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2013 6:21:38 AM(UTC)

PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Gold: 2012PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Gold: 2013FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2014FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Bronze: 2013

Rank: Select Member
Joined: 8/8/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 3,311
Applause Received: 1,604
look at his smilies. its is in jest.
Offline play2win  
#30 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2013 6:54:03 AM(UTC)

Rank: Registered
United States
Joined: 3/29/2012(UTC)
Location: Milwaukee
Applause Given: 1,076
Applause Received: 724
Well, if they got busy in FA a bit and landed a couple of good defenders, I could see them nabbing a top RB or LT. Maybe even a TE if they were to let Finley go. As much as I want them to hit the D hard, I wouldn't have a problem with them taking a offensive player round 1.

I'm having doubts that would be the case though. So, I'm right with you texas.
Rss Feed 
Users browsing this topic
Guest
4 Pages<1234>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error


Fan Shout
Smokey (8h) : Let us remember the Men/Women who served in our nations military on this their Memorial Day.
Porforis (23-May) : Had the most horrible dream that the Packers were playing the Bears and LOST. Immediately realized it was a dream ;)
Mucky Tundra (22-May) : why not?
Zero2Cool (22-May) : Yes sir, but you can't ignore admins.
gbguy20 (21-May) : is there an ignore feature on this forum?
Smokey (15-May) : Rest in Peace B.B.King ! The thrill will never leave us !
Cheesey (14-May) : I really enjoyed the "Mr. Rodgers" sweater he wore!
Cheesey (14-May) : I can't believe Aaron missed the "Harley/Davidson" question!
gbguy20 (13-May) : if he lost i blame ted thompson
gbguy20 (13-May) : did he win or did his defense let him down
Smokey (12-May) : Aaron Rodgers on Jeopardy tonight. Don't miss it !
Zero2Cool (12-May) : boomies boom!!
gbguy20 (11-May) : good evening
Zero2Cool (10-May) : Start a topic in feedback explaining how to produce this error please. No shout about it.
Smokey (10-May) : I'd like to report that your reporting system won't allow reports. A catch 22 reporting sys.
Smokey (9-May) : There are dozens of WR list for 2015 available or will be. Fantasy Draft more than 3 months away.
Zero2Cool (9-May) : He wants to get the upper hand in his league is all.
greengold (9-May) : Smokey, are you drunk?
Smokey (9-May) : Post your TOP 20 Fantasy Receivers today !
Zero2Cool (9-May) : Today's Birthdays: voiceofreason (30)
greengold (7-May) : La'el Collins to Cowboys on UDFA deal. That's one way to get around the salary cap!!!
TheKanataThrilla (7-May) : La'el Collins signs with the Cowboys
Smokey (7-May) : Unitas would have been 82 today, it was my good fortune to see him play. Those Unitas / Starr matchups were golden.
Zero2Cool (6-May) : woohoo
gbguy20 (5-May) : i think its fixed now :)
Zero2Cool (5-May) : lol
gbguy20 (4-May) : century link is a bunch of idiots
gbguy20 (4-May) : definitely my end.
gbguy20 (4-May) : *to get my last post to go thru
gbguy20 (4-May) : Is the problem with this site on my end or your end? Everytime I try to post the "Connection resets" it took me 20 minutes to get my lost t
Zero2Cool (4-May) : Nice, thanks!
gbguy20 (4-May) : no i've seen it the right way all along. I just wanted to let you know it looks good.
Zero2Cool (4-May) : thanks btw
Zero2Cool (4-May) : Did you just try it on larger resolution now? Hit CTRL F5, tweaked something earlier lol
gbguy20 (4-May) : the site looks fantastic on a larger resolution. zero, you have done a fantastic job with this site.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout

2015 Schedule
Sunday, Sep 13 @ 12:00 PM
at Bears
Sunday, Sep 20 @ 7:30 PM
SEAHAWKS
Monday, Sep 28 @ 7:30 PM
CHIEFS
Sunday, Oct 4 @ 3:25 PM
at 49ers
Sunday, Oct 11 @ 12:00 PM
RAMS
Sunday, Oct 18 @ 3:25 PM
CHARGERS
Sunday, Oct 25 @ 12:00 AM
- BYE -
Sunday, Nov 1 @ 7:30 PM
at Broncos
Sunday, Nov 8 @ 12:00 PM
at Panthers
Sunday, Nov 15 @ 12:00 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 22 @ 12:00 PM
at Vikings
Thursday, Nov 26 @ 7:30 PM
BEARS
Thursday, Dec 3 @ 7:25 PM
at Lions
Sunday, Dec 13 @ 3:25 PM
COWBOYS
Sunday, Dec 20 @ 3:05 PM
at Raiders
Sunday, Dec 27 @ 3:25 PM
at Cardinals
Sunday, Jan 3 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS

Recent Topics
46m / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / texaspackerbacker

6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan

6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / DarkaneRules

11h / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan

11h / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan

24-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / isocleas2

24-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / sschind

24-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

23-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / DarkaneRules

23-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

23-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan

22-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / QCHuskerFan

22-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Poppa San

22-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool


Tweeter