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QCHuskerFan  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, March 6, 2013 2:46:11 PM(UTC)
Please let me know where I said there was no need for a QB. I am saying that picking Aaron Rodgers with the number 1 pick brought no direct value to the team in 2005. Or 2006. Or 2007. Look it up. Let me know what I missed.

The original comment I responded to was Porforis saying that you don't draft someone in the first round with zero value when you have needs. I responded that's what Rodgers was. I am quite aware why it was done and it worked out incredibly well. But someone that doesn't start a game for 3 years and only plays in 7 total in that 3 year time is offering nothing to that team. The future team? Maybe. But AR's ~350 passing yards in 3 years is not an impact. He offered no value to the teams in 2005, 2006 or 2007. If Favre had retired the day after the draft in 2005, then he would have had immediate value. But Favre didn't.

You said, "I think nearly everyone thought, "well, OK..." when we went Rodgers. The pick made perfect sense. Favre had seemed invincible, but everyone knew his time was running out, and getting his replacement was imperative over those next two seasons." Nearly everyone did not think OK. Finding a replacement for Favre was a priority. But it was not necessary to draft that person in Rd 1, when there were other needs. Much of Packer Nation was quite upset. That is why I accused you of distorting history. Choosing to look at the past with rose colored glasses, does not change the past. Favre still had a tremendous amount of supporters that viewed this draft choice as the franchise turning their back on #4 as well as failing to make the team markedly better. Doesn't mean it wasn't the right choice. Just didn't make it overwhelmingly popular. Additionally, Favre played 6 years after that draft so it was not "imperative to get his replacement in the next 2 years" as you stated. But that's hindsight.

Did drafting Aaron Rodgers in the first round in 2005 work out well for the Pack? Duh. But that doesn't mean it offered value at the time.
QCHuskerFan  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, March 6, 2013 2:50:25 PM(UTC)
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
In the same regard there are a couple of other factors.

1. Favre's yearly dance with retirement.. Rodgers slipping to us only helped push the timeline (by a couple of rounds maybe) the need to find a successor.

2. Additionally that was an aging team that had cap issues and some real depth concern, hence Sherman being relived by Thompson in the first place.

3. We currently still have a team with a relatively large window of opportunity with Rodgers at the helm to make some noise. Favre was closer to the end than the beginning and with the roster being turned over because of issue #2 it wasn't clear how fast the team could reload for a run.


I sincerely hope you are correct in #3. I am concerned that after extending AR, Raji, Matthews, that the window will be very small. Those 3 could easily consume 30-35% of the CAP. I am not sure that is feasible for fielding a competitive team. I hope we can, but...
play2win  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, March 6, 2013 2:52:33 PM(UTC)
QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
Please let me know where I said there was no need for a QB. I am saying that picking Aaron Rodgers with the number 1 pick brought no direct value to the team in 2005. Or 2006. Or 2007. Look it up. Let me know what I missed.

The original comment I responded to was Porforis saying that you don't draft someone in the first round with zero value when you have needs. I responded that's what Rodgers was. I am quite aware why it was done and it worked out incredibly well. But someone that doesn't start a game for 3 years and only plays in 7 total in that 3 year time is offering nothing to that team. The future team? Maybe. But AR's ~350 passing yards in 3 years is not an impact. He offered no value to the teams in 2005, 2006 or 2007. If Favre had retired the day after the draft in 2005, then he would have had immediate value. But Favre didn't.

You said, "I think nearly everyone thought, "well, OK..." when we went Rodgers. The pick made perfect sense. Favre had seemed invincible, but everyone knew his time was running out, and getting his replacement was imperative over those next two seasons." Nearly everyone did not think OK. Finding a replacement for Favre was a priority. But it was not necessary to draft that person in Rd 1, when there were other needs. Much of Packer Nation was quite upset. That is why I accused you of distorting history. Choosing to look at the past with rose colored glasses, does not change the past. Favre still had a tremendous amount of supporters that viewed this draft choice as the franchise turning their back on #4 as well as failing to make the team markedly better. Doesn't mean it wasn't the right choice. Just didn't make it overwhelmingly popular. Additionally, Favre played 6 years after that draft so it was not "imperative to get his replacement in the next 2 years" as you stated. But that's hindsight.

Did drafting Aaron Rodgers in the first round in 2005 work out well for the Pack? Duh. But that doesn't mean it offered value at the time.


This is such BS.

I clearly remember the boo birds lining the fence that 2005 training camp. I'm just talking about what I believe was the majority of Packers fans, understanding fully that we were going to have to address a replacement for Favre going into his 14th season. When a QB who was rated #1 overall for most of the period leading up to that draft, falls to 24, yeah, if you like him you take him. It is my belief MOST fans understood the move by Thompson that day.

I'll say this too, there is a twisted logic to thinking you can draft a player and immediately solve a problem. Most draftees require a good year of development at the pro level before they make significant contributions. Sure there are exceptions to that, but they are few. That is why I am pushing for Ted to make some good moves in FA this season. We need help now, and we've needed it in the same places for two years running, with no improvement.
stevegb  
#24 Posted : Thursday, March 7, 2013 2:15:19 AM(UTC)
Outside of the obvious P and K in the first round my biggest WTF Ted selections would probably be in the CB position or maybe the OLB position. I think we are very deep at CB and I'd be a little upset if we gave up on Perry so early. Don't get me wrong I don't mind if we draft either a CB or OLB but I'd expect it to be at least 3rd round or later.

QB would be disappointing but NE continually draft highly touted QB's late in the first round and manage to trade them off for future mid-round picks+. We have a very good QB coaching staff in Green bay so I'd have confidence we could get some pretty good value for them, although Ted has never done anything to prove hes a very good trader.
nerdmann  
#25 Posted : Thursday, March 7, 2013 9:18:04 AM(UTC)
stevegb said: Go to Quoted Post
Outside of the obvious P and K in the first round my biggest WTF Ted selections would probably be in the CB position or maybe the OLB position. I think we are very deep at CB and I'd be a little upset if we gave up on Perry so early. Don't get me wrong I don't mind if we draft either a CB or OLB but I'd expect it to be at least 3rd round or later.

QB would be disappointing but NE continually draft highly touted QB's late in the first round and manage to trade them off for future mid-round picks+. We have a very good QB coaching staff in Green bay so I'd have confidence we could get some pretty good value for them, although Ted has never done anything to prove hes a very good trader.


We need as many stud OLBs as we can get.

And I expect Perry AND Moses to be able to get it done this year.
Yerko  
#26 Posted : Tuesday, March 12, 2013 3:39:18 PM(UTC)
I'd be upset if we drafted defensive line in the first round.




:-"
Flapper
:-$
play2win  
#27 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:31:57 AM(UTC)
Yerko said: Go to Quoted Post
I'd be upset if we drafted defensive line in the first round.




:-"
Flapper
:-$


Why?
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#28 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2013 6:19:06 AM(UTC)
Yerko said: Go to Quoted Post
I'd be upset if we drafted defensive line in the first round.




:-"
Flapper
:-$


yeah, why? I'd be upset if we don't draft a D Lineman in the first round. To answer the original question of the thread, I think RB in round one would tick me off the most. It's so easy to get good ones on the scrap heap, and so difficult - basically a crapshoot whether a first round pick becomes a star player.
wpr  
#29 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2013 6:21:38 AM(UTC)
look at his smilies. its is in jest.
play2win  
#30 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2013 6:54:03 AM(UTC)
Well, if they got busy in FA a bit and landed a couple of good defenders, I could see them nabbing a top RB or LT. Maybe even a TE if they were to let Finley go. As much as I want them to hit the D hard, I wouldn't have a problem with them taking a offensive player round 1.

I'm having doubts that would be the case though. So, I'm right with you texas.
PackerTraxx  
#31 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2013 7:38:08 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
No. Favre's successor WAS a hole to fill. Without question. He had been feigning retirement for some time prior. The fact that Rodgers dropped in our laps was a giant stroke of good luck. He was mocked to go #4 to TB by Walter.

We had defensive needs at the time in our secondary. Walter had us mocked to pick CB R1, then to pick QB Charlie Frye R2. I saw Matt Cassel as our R1 pick in a Scout mock. So, word was out, and really, it was common knowledge that we needed a QB. Fave was entering his 14th season.

Not bustin' your balls QCHuskerFan, but that is the way it was then. I think nearly everyone thought, "well, OK..." when we went Rodgers. The pick made perfect sense. Favre had seemed invincible, but everyone knew his time was running out, and getting his replacement was imperative over those next two seasons.

Funny too, that those defensive needs were addressed with Ted's R2 pick of Nick Collins. What a draft!


Not many people thought that was a great pick, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth around the campfires along the Fox River and into the valleys of southern and western Packerland, even up Nort. One always hopes for some immediate help from the draft but more times than not that doesn't happen for whatever reasons. So I felt, even thought we had Brett who could easily play another half dozen years at that point, it was a great pick for the future. It was the classic BPA pick. Most available players are rated closely so that BPA also fills a need.

PackerTraxx  
#32 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2013 7:49:31 AM(UTC)
Oh...which pick would tick me off...none...I have 100% faith Ted Thompson will make the best pick possible based on our situation. What would I like to see...more help for the front seven, especially on DL, or Pro Bowl safety. What I'd least like to see outside QB,P,K...OG, unless he's an immediate All Pro. I believe a good center would really help this team's offense so I hope we can address that with more than a UFA or late pick.
wpr  
#33 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2013 8:07:36 AM(UTC)
PackerTraxx said: Go to Quoted Post
Not many people thought that was a great pick, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth around the campfires along the Fox River and into the valleys of southern and western Packerland, even up Nort. One always hopes for some immediate help from the draft but more times than not that doesn't happen for whatever reasons. So I felt, even thought we had Brett who could easily play another half dozen years at that point, it was a great pick for the future. It was the classic BPA pick. Most available players are rated closely so that BPA also fills a need.



There were a lot of complaints from fans many of them were Favre-ites. I loved the Aaron Rodgers pick. It is not often you get a prospective #1 overall pick falling all the way down to #24. I figured Brett had 2-3 years left in him tops. It takes 3 years to develop a qb so if Brett quit after 2 years Rodgers would have to learn under fire. If Brett stuck around for 4 years Rodgers would be sitting on the bench a little longer than he needed to but that is the breaks of the NFL.
yooperfan  
#34 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2013 8:56:36 AM(UTC)
Okay.
It would knock me right off my square if they picked a cornerback.
How irrational is that?
I'm all worked up over a slim possibility.
beast  
#35 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2013 1:10:14 PM(UTC)

Not counting K, P and QB

I think my least favorite positions for a 1st round pick would be

ILB, OG, C, RB.

I think if the Packers resign Brad Jones their ILB group is pretty good. Not great but Hawk played a lot better with the defensive changes this year and the group as a whole is very good. And I think 3-4 ILB is a role position more than play making... unless you got a LB that can it all... cover like a Safety, blitz like a 3-4 OLB and tackle.

Seems like 1st round Centers rarely live up to the 1st round grade.

OG can live up to 1st round grade, but I think the Packers found a nice back-up OG in Barclay. He needed some extra help at OT, I don't think he would at OG, plus don't like to draft an OG high if he can't play OT nor C.

RB, just because it seems like a lot of 1st round RBs don't live up to it. They're great with very good blocking and weak college defenders trying to get them but look bad against NFL guys. Don't get me wrong, some RBs are worth it, but a lot of teams have waited until 2nd or 3rd and picked up a nice one just as good or better than some 1st round RB picks.

dfosterf  
#36 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:49:23 PM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
You're just like Gunny, don't know shit from shinola. [grin1]

I'd rather we took a legitimate center than a guard, but interior run blocker is a must.

Would anybody give up our #1 for Revis and the Jets 3rd?


The gunny was an absolute expert on football while you shat through your pants and diapers, smeared it all over your face and ate it... only to be stopped once in a great while when relatives showed up to try and wipe the disgusting mess off you as a humanitarian gesture to your poor- overwhelmed parents.

That being said... Laugh

Lineman on offense or DE / OLB defense. I want them and I hate wanting them.

Again. Because Ted is not getting it done.
User is suspended until 5/28/2018 11:54:40 AM(UTC) DakotaT  
#37 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:56:38 PM(UTC)
dfosterf said: Go to Quoted Post
The gunny was an absolute expert on football while you shat through your pants and diapers, smeared it all over your face and ate it... only to be stopped once in a great while when relatives showed up to try and wipe the disgusting mess off you as a humanitarian gesture to your poor- overwhelmed parents.



Well I have news for you, when you revert back to shitting in your pants and living off the state of Pennsylvania in an old person's home, I'll be there slipping you some Cialis in your pureed food. Then I'll stick around and watch the Packer game with you and laugh when the CNA's check out your wood.
dfosterf  
#38 Posted : Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:58:14 PM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
Well I have news for you, when you revert back to shitting in your pants and living off the state of Pennsylvania in an old person's home, I'll be there slipping you some Cialis in your pureed food. Then I'll stick around and watch the Packer game with you and laugh when the CNA's check out your wood.




It's a deal, and I appreciate it, lol

play2win  
#39 Posted : Wednesday, April 24, 2013 5:54:40 AM(UTC)
PackerTraxx said: Go to Quoted Post
Oh...which pick would tick me off...none...I have 100% faith Ted Thompson will make the best pick possible based on our situation. What would I like to see...more help for the front seven, especially on DL, or Pro Bowl safety. What I'd least like to see outside QB,P,K...OG, unless he's an immediate All Pro. I believe a good center would really help this team's offense so I hope we can address that with more than a UFA or late pick.


PackerTraxx, I couldn't agree more.

I desperately want them to add a DE, NT, S and a LB - all players who can start. However, I'm open to Ted nabbing a WR, TE, LT, RB or C if they choose to go to one of those positions early.

We need help at every one of those positions to varying degrees. Take "need" out of the equation, and upgrades through true BPA will make this team better.

I'm stoked for this draft.
wpr  
#40 Posted : Wednesday, April 24, 2013 7:10:13 AM(UTC)
It is not so much the position that would tick me off as much as it would be the player.

For example. If Ted drafts Justin Harrell AGAIN I will:



Ted has been know to take a flyer on injury prone players that he sees as having a great upside IF they are healthy. In the 5th round- fantastic. In the first round NOOOOOOOOOOO!
I didn't mind he drafting Starks or Datko. Back then I did trust his judgement on Harrell but he was used that card. Stick with healthy players please.
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