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Offline play2win  
#1 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 5:25:19 PM(UTC)
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Reggie White was 32 when we signed him, and 36 when we won the SB.

Something to think about. I believe that was Ted's biggest mistake with Cullen Jenkins. NYG is a smart organization, and they got a bargain. So did PHI before that.

There are some older players out there who can still bring it. With Ted's mentality, he never would have signed Reggie White, one of the greatest Packers ever to play.
Offline Laser Gunns  
#2 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 5:35:32 PM(UTC)
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I'll agree with you on most positions,

but in regard to Steven Jackson, hey may turn out to be the exeption to the rule, but more often than not, at 30 years old, most RBs production drops off a cliff.


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Offline play2win  
#3 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 5:51:35 PM(UTC)
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Sorry Raji, but I wasn't thinking in RB terms at all. And I agree with you there.

Just thinking some very serviceable players who would be great in DL rotation are precluded from consideration by age, like:
Umenyiora
Freeney
Abraham
Hampton
Seymore
Spears

Times have changed, but there are some specially gifted, older players who I think should be considered. The Jenkins thing still pisses me off, and I can't get over it. We should have won 2 SBs in a row, and could have gone undefeated if we had him in 2011.
Offline nerdmann  
#4 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 6:05:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Sorry Raji, but I wasn't thinking in RB terms at all. And I agree with you there.

Just thinking some very serviceable players who would be great in DL rotation are precluded from consideration by age, like:
Umenyiora
Freeney
Abraham
Hampton
Seymore
Spears

Times have changed, but there are some specially gifted, older players who I think should be considered. The Jenkins thing still pisses me off, and I can't get over it. We should have won 2 SBs in a row, and could have gone undefeated if we had him in 2011.


Jenkins had problems staying healthy even before he turned 30.

Not the same player.
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Offline DakotaT  
#5 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 6:21:25 PM(UTC)
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Guaging age of a player is a positional thing. For a quarterback 35-36 is when they start showing age. For a running back, that number is 30, or even sooner if said player is a workhorse back. You get a little more life from a receiver, but when they start getting caught from behind, then it is time to start looking for the replacement.

I would only give a long term contract to a quarterback or Offensive lineman post 30 years old. Everybody else would be 3 years max.
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Offline shield4life  
#6 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 6:35:29 PM(UTC)
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I agree that aged players are not necessarily "finished" but they won't be the "key" of winning a SB. Jenkins did not want to take a home discount and left on his own terms. On top of that we saw what he did with Eagles ... oh wait two losing seasons by them while acquiring the top FA's on defense in that year. Now I'm not saying Jenkins wouldn't have helped but there are other more important players to be retained which are young and cheaper.
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Offline play2win  
#7 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 6:38:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Jenkins had problems staying healthy even before he turned 30.

Not the same player.


Jenkins has not missed a game in the two years since his release by GB, with 9.5 sacks.

No DL in GB comes close to that production over two years.
Offline steveishere  
#8 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 6:42:28 PM(UTC)
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It doesn't seem like PHI thought they got a bargain since they restructured his contract after 1 year and cut him after 2.
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Offline beast  
#9 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 6:43:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Reggie White was 32 when we signed him, and 36 when we won the SB.

Something to think about. I believe that was Ted's biggest mistake with Cullen Jenkins. NYG is a smart organization, and they got a bargain. So did PHI before that.

There are some older players out there who can still bring it. With Ted's mentality, he never would have signed Reggie White, one of the greatest Packers ever to play.



Who said Packers didn't sign Jenkins because of age?

It's been said, Jenkins priced himself out of the market (like Jennings did)

And both their prices had to drop before teams would think about signing them.

It's been rumored the Packers offered more than Jenkins ended up signing for (which has also been said about Jennings).

It was said the Packers offered Jennings $10 million per season at one point. But he thought he could get $12 million from the Dolphins. (better weather and more money and his family and him loved the idea of Miami.)

Now he might be taking $7 to $8 million per season.

Also Eagles made him take a pay cut ...

Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
It doesn't seem like PHI thought they got a bargain since they restructured his contract after 1 year and cut him after 2.
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Offline play2win  
#10 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 6:43:40 PM(UTC)
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There are other positions and players, and I agree age affects different positions in different ways. Thinking we could add a LT as a starter or backup,or a DL to be a part of a "rebuild the rotation" plan.

Bryant McKinney won a SB last year as a backup who became a SB starter.

As for revisiting Cullen Jenkins end in GB, it went exactly like Woodson, with Ted not saying anything, not making an offer, not telling his player to test the market and get back.... Nothing. That, to me, is irresponsible.

Jenkins never had a chance to make the hometown discount. There were a lot of fans saying we could have afforded him for what he signed for in PHI.
Offline steveishere  
#11 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:00:41 PM(UTC)
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Lol Jenkins offered a "hometown discount" supposedly before he even hit FA. Based on the way his market was when he actually was a FA I'd say his discount was probably for more than he ended up getting and he was a little off on the amount of interest there was in his services.

Beyond that how can you really think you have any idea what Ted did or didn't do as far as offers or discussions with players? The guy says absolutely nothing about players ever. I think a player could say Ted offered him a hooker to sign and he would just say something like "we don't discuss personnel discussions"
Offline beast  
#12 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:30:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
As for revisiting Cullen Jenkins end in GB, it went exactly like Woodson, with Ted not saying anything, not making an offer, not telling his player to test the market and get back.... Nothing. That, to me, is irresponsible.

Jenkins never had a chance to make the hometown discount. There were a lot of fans saying we could have afforded him for what he signed for in PHI.


WHAT?!?!? Are you Jenkins agent? Or how do you know that?

Thompson was said to not make James Jones an offer that same year which turned out to be false, it was said about Jennings this year and that has turned out false. And he did it with Clifton.

Packers doesn't offer deals publicly ... but he does offer them.

It's also been rumored the Packers offered Jenkins more than he got with the eagles. But Jenkins turned it down at the time thinking it was too little, only to find out it was his best offer, but when the market went down, Thompson offer went down but still was the best and Jenkins was pissed at the Packers and didn't take it. Just like Jennings, other than Jennings hasn't been reported to be pissed, and don't know if Vikings will go over the Packers offer or not. And no I don't know the rumors are true, but I know Jenkins was pissed at the Packers as there was a couple reports of it, because he thought he should of given him what he wanted.
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Offline shield4life  
#13 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:35:33 PM(UTC)
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Cullen Jenkins:

2010 with Packers: 11 games - 18 tackles - 7 sacks
2011 with Eagles: 16 games - 40 tackles - 5.5 sacks
2012 with Eagles: 16 games - 26 tackles - 4 sacks
2013 with Giants: Let's wait and see, doubt it will be better then 2011 season.

We can't just blame for Ted Thompson letting him slip away it's not he hit strides or something with the Eagles.
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Offline porky88  
#14 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 8:06:58 PM(UTC)
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I do agree that people have an attitude about players reaching 30-years-old. Look at the number of veterans Ron Wolf brought in. Aside from White, he traded for Keith Jackson, Eugene Robinson, and signed Sean Jones. I’m sure the ‘96 Packers could overcome the absence of one of those players. However, I could argue they'd have a difficult time winning without all three of them.
Offline play2win  
#15 Posted : Friday, March 15, 2013 5:19:25 AM(UTC)
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Justin Bannan could help us as an end. 33 yrs old. 6-3 313.

Casey Hampton could give us a lift we need at NT after playing in all 16 games last season for PIT.

Bigger point is holding to an arbitrary age # as a cut off and eliminating possible chances to improve.

porky, talking about those 96 Packers, I met Santana Dotson two nights ago. Dude looks like he could jump right back in and play!
Online Zero2Cool  
#16 Posted : Friday, March 15, 2013 5:22:31 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: shield4life Go to Quoted Post
Cullen Jenkins:

2010 with Packers: 11 games - 18 tackles - 7 sacks
2011 with Eagles: 16 games - 40 tackles - 5.5 sacks
2012 with Eagles: 16 games - 26 tackles - 4 sacks
2013 with Giants: Let's wait and see, doubt it will be better then 2011 season.

We can't just blame for Ted Thompson letting him slip away it's not he hit strides or something with the Eagles.


We can't blame Ted Thompson for letting Cullen Jenkins go, because Jenkins chose to go because the Packers didn't pay him huge before the market was set. This is a common trend with the Packers. Let the market set the price and then they make their offers. I'm not sure why folks continuously wanna point the finger at Thompson when this strategy has been what we see year in year out, lol. Silly people, c'mon!
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Offline play2win  
#17 Posted : Friday, March 15, 2013 5:29:58 AM(UTC)
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I'll explain why, for me:
Because Jenkins was not just a guy. He was an essential part of our pass rush and run D. He was nearly unblockable at the time. Ted should have broken from his tight ass checklist sequence of dealing with FAs about to hit the market, which means no communication, and simply talked to him about it. Make an attempt at getting a deal done. At the very least, let that important player know you want him back, and request a chance to match.

His style of drawing these hard lines and not engaging the player works against him and is off putting. Ted is in charge of this, and this is his system. It is too rigid IMO, and he has a responsibility to make better attempts to retain top talent.

Think Woodson isn't a little pissed about his handling?
Online Zero2Cool  
#18 Posted : Friday, March 15, 2013 5:34:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I'll explain why, for me:
Because he was not just a guy. He was an essential part of our pass rush and run D. He was nearly in lockable at the time. Ted should have broken from his tight ass checklist sequence of dealing with FAs about to hit the market, which means no communication, and simply talked to him about it. Make an attempt at getting a deal done. At the very least, let that important player know you want him back, and request a chance to match.

His style of drawing these hard lines and not engaging the player works against him and is off putting.

Think Woodson isn't a little pissed about his handling?


I get that, but reports were out that they was overpricing himself, big time and when the Packers didn't just lay down and pay his demands, he got bent out of shape. When the market started to set, the Packers actually offered more than the Eagles. Then recently Cullen Jenkins says he never wanted to leave the Packers. You fucking kidding me? You took LESS money to leave!

I don't fault Jenkins for being pissed off and going elsewhere. Not at all. I won't fault him and sure as heck won't fault Ted Thompson. They both did the right thing in their beliefs.

Edit, and I do agree with the premise that it would be nice if Thompson took a little risk here and there on a player and overspend. I remember Chris Canty several years ago when Packers just moved to 3 - 4. I was saying, hey over pay a by a million or two for the guy. Get him here.

Overpaying for a RB, not a chance.

Edit2, Charles Woodson is not pissed. He is hurt that he's not a Packer, but he took it like a man. He's not pissed. He got his ring.
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Offline play2win  
#19 Posted : Friday, March 15, 2013 6:41:06 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I get that, but reports were out that they was overpricing himself, big time and when the Packers didn't just lay down and pay his demands, he got bent out of shape. When the market started to set, the Packers actually offered more than the Eagles. Then recently Cullen Jenkins says he never wanted to leave the Packers. You fucking kidding me? You took LESS money to leave!

I don't fault Jenkins for being pissed off and going elsewhere. Not at all. I won't fault him and sure as heck won't fault Ted Thompson. They both did the right thing in their beliefs.

Edit, and I do agree with the premise that it would be nice if Thompson took a little risk here and there on a player and overspend. I remember Chris Canty several years ago when Packers just moved to 3 - 4. I was saying, hey over pay a by a million or two for the guy. Get him here.

Overpaying for a RB, not a chance.

Edit2, Charles Woodson is not pissed. He is hurt that he's not a Packer, but he took it like a man. He's not pissed. He got his ring.



“Heading into last year, I’ve always been up there and always been a Packer, and I wanted to stay a Packer,” Jenkins said, per Jason Wilde of ESPNMilwaukee.com. “So we approached the team and wanted to get some type of security, some type of longer-term deal before the season so I would know I would be there. It wasn’t about money, it was about security, about trying to see if we could work something out.”

When asked if he would have given the Packers a hometown discount, Jenkins said, “Yeah. That was the thought then. I knew in going to them, I know Green Bay, I know the market, I know how they handle business, and the thought was if we could get something reasonable worked out, I knew I would take less than what I could’ve gotten in free agency. But they never approached me with anything and never got any type of negotiations going. It’s just how the business is. They had a lot of younger guys and felt they could move forward in that direction.”
http://profootballtalk.n...n-jenkins-expects-to-go/

The point is, GB never responded, at all. No conversation, which is truly Ted's MO, as relayed by other players released. Personally, I find that to be too rigid and detrimental to future possibilities for success. I like and appreciate Ted, but this is clearly one of his faults, one that he should change.
Offline steveishere  
#20 Posted : Friday, March 15, 2013 6:52:06 AM(UTC)
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Just because Ted doesn't tell YOU what he does with or says to players about their contracts doesn't mean that he does absolutely nothing.
Offline play2win  
#21 Posted : Friday, March 15, 2013 6:59:02 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
Just because Ted doesn't tell YOU what he does with or says to players about their contracts doesn't mean that he does absolutely nothing.


steve, its not me, it is the players saying he doesn't communicate with them. Jenkins. Jones. Woodson. Jennings. Even now, Finley is getting the silent treatment. Not my words. Theirs.
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#22 Posted : Friday, March 15, 2013 7:03:56 AM(UTC)
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You're completely dodging the big picture here.

Between 2010-2011 Eagles made him an offer. The Packers either matched it or exceeded it, I can't recall exactly. Fact of the matter is, he could have been with the Packers for the same money he got in 2011. Jenkins chose the Eagles.

Now he's cut by the Eagles, the team he chose over the Packers and he's being interviewed by a Packers writer. Let that sink in for a moment.

Jenkins knows full well who has got the blame for his being an Eagle and not a Packer.

Of course he's going to say he would have signed with GB for less money (appealing to those who feel players are overpaid) and continue to let the blame fall on Thompson, instead of admitting he chose the Eagles over the Packers, thus, alienating him with a portion of the fan base that he might end up playing for again? Think about this.

Bottom line, he is now a Giant and and he chose to leave the Packers. Accept it and move on.

Regarding the Packers signing ~30 year old free agents.

Thompson believes, and this is from Ron Wolf too, that you have to groom offensive players, but you can add free agent players in defense.

Offense = draft and develop
Defense = draft and develop and fill in spots with free agents


Not overpaying for a near 30 year old RB ... not much of a surprise, lol.
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Online Zero2Cool  
#23 Posted : Friday, March 15, 2013 7:06:12 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
steve, its not me, it is the players saying he doesn't communicate with them. Jenkins. Jones. Woodson. Jennings. Even now, Finley is getting the silent treatment. Not my words. Theirs.


Should I piss and moan because the CEO doesn't talk to me? I have a manager for a reason, just as the players have position coaches, coordinators and head coach. This is a reach to find something to dis Ted Thompson. Why? Did he smack your kitten or something?


And what the heck is he supposed to be saying to Jermichael Finley, who signed a contract last year and is still under contract? The guy shouldn't be talking to guys under contract with the draft approaching. He should be continuing to develop his draft board and thinking of how to extend the essential core players of the team ... Aaron Rodgers, Clay Matthews .. for example.
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Offline play2win  
#24 Posted : Friday, March 15, 2013 7:20:57 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Should I piss and moan because the CEO doesn't talk to me? I have a manager for a reason, just as the players have position coaches, coordinators and head coach. This is a reach to find something to dis Ted Thompson. Why? Did he smack your kitten or something?


And what the heck is he supposed to be saying to Jermichael Finley, who signed a contract last year and is still under contract? The guy shouldn't be talking to guys under contract with the draft approaching. He should be continuing to develop his draft board and thinking of how to extend the essential core players of the team ... Aaron Rodgers, Clay Matthews .. for example.


WTF? I'm just talking about how Ted Thompson communicates with players contractually on their way out in GB. The players themselves have clearly stated he doesn't communicate with them at all.

In my opinion, I believe that is too rigid, and puts players off.

Finley knows there is a lot of talk publicly that he is overpaid, and clearly doesn't want to take a cut. His agent wanted to discuss the matter with Thompson. Silent treatment. No?

A reach? I'm talking about player relations. Is that not important?
Offline play2win  
#25 Posted : Friday, March 15, 2013 7:26:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
You're completely dodging the big picture here.

Between 2010-2011 Eagles made him an offer. The Packers either matched it or exceeded it, I can't recall exactly. Fact of the matter is, he could have been with the Packers for the same money he got in 2011. Jenkins chose the Eagles.

Now he's cut by the Eagles, the team he chose over the Packers and he's being interviewed by a Packers writer. Let that sink in for a moment.

Jenkins knows full well who has got the blame for his being an Eagle and not a Packer.

Of course he's going to say he would have signed with GB for less money (appealing to those who feel players are overpaid) and continue to let the blame fall on Thompson, instead of admitting he chose the Eagles over the Packers, thus, alienating him with a portion of the fan base that he might end up playing for again? Think about this.

Bottom line, he is now a Giant and and he chose to leave the Packers. Accept it and move on.

Regarding the Packers signing ~30 year old free agents.

Thompson believes, and this is from Ron Wolf too, that you have to groom offensive players, but you can add free agent players in defense.

Offense = draft and develop
Defense = draft and develop and fill in spots with free agents

Not overpaying for a near 30 year old RB ... not much of a surprise, lol.


Really? Did the Packers really match the money PHI offered? Really? Because that is kind of important in this discussion, and that is news to me.

I do not believe you are correct Zero2Cool.
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