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Offline Laser Gunns  
#1 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 4:01:05 AM(UTC)
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since 2010, we've taken alot of hits at positions that we still have yet to fill which have created big weaknesses on our roster.




Nick Collins: really good FS
-Charlie Peprah, contributed to one of, if not the worst pass-Ds in NFL history
-M.D. Jennings, meh at best.
-Jerron McMillian, rookie, diddnt see too much to be very optimistic.
-Charles Woodson, old, slow, hurt, expensive.

I know Ted is not an injury-prevention wizard, but we lost a good player because of bad luck and are still looking for someone to fill his shoes.

Cullen Jenkins: power DE
-Jarius Wynn, terrible player, and out of scheme.
-C.J. Wilson, a slighlty less bad version of Wynn
-Mike Neal, Has missed more games than he has played, best talent of the 3.

I've heard he priced himself out of GB, I've heard he offered a hometown discount... whatever. his Eagles contract was not unfair at all. since Cullen, we have not had a single lineman (including Pickett) have a significant impact against the run and pass.

Scott Wells: Solid Center
- Jeff Saturday, bust of a signing, diddn't finish the season.
- EDS, better than Saturday, not bad, but not good either.

I dont care that he was a bust with the Rams, he was a pro-bowl center for us, our running game was abysmal and we had another 50-sack season the year he left.

the OLB position we still have not filled 4-years later
-Aaron Kampman, was a bad idea to begin with.
-Frank Zombo, injuries then dissapeared
-Brad Jones, moved inside.
-Erik Walden, one of the worst LBs I have ever seen start an NFL game.
-Nick Perry, lost rookie year.

what piss poor luck, we finally draft a guy, and he breaks his hand. This position is so key to be a sucsessful 3-4 D, it's not suprise our pass rush is this bad with the crew we've been rotating through there.

Chad Clifton:Blindside pass protection
-Derek Sherrod, lost most of unimpressive rookie and 2nd year.
-Marshall Newhouse, has gotten better,struggles badly at times against good pass-rushers.

Clifton was on his last legs in 2010 (literally), we drafted Derek Sherrod with the 32nd pick. logical pick, kid had a first round grade, and thanks to Newhouse single-handidly allowing Tamba Hali to wreck what could have been a 16-0 season, Sherrod got an opportunity to snap his leg in half. Newhouse reclaimed the job has hasn't looked back.

Ryan Grant: workhorse RB
-Brandon Jackson, awful as a starter
-James Starks, injury prone.
-Alex Green, ACL rookie year, bad the next.
-John Kuhn, is a damn fullback.

Grant will never be confused with a great RB, but he was better than this pile of shit.

Greg Jennings: great reciever.. unfortunatly
-??????


IMO, this team is a long way from getting back to a SB. And although I think Teddy is a good GM, I do not believe he is a great one. If we are not gonna make trades (either way), and not going to dip into free agency that's fine; but that means we have to rock the draft, which we have not done well enough recently.

Message modified by user Saturday, March 16, 2013 4:38:21 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified



MintBaconDrivel

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play2win on 3/16/2013(UTC), wpr on 3/16/2013(UTC), gotarace on 3/16/2013(UTC), Zero2Cool on 8/16/2013(UTC), Wade on 8/16/2013(UTC)
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#2 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 4:05:54 AM(UTC)
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I personally don't think, his public overtures notwithstanding, Steven Jackson was ever genuinely interested in playing for the Packers; I think he was aiming for the Falcons all along. And frankly, I don't blame him. If I were a free agent interested in playing for a contender, I would do the same thing. I think the Falcons are much closer to a championship right now than the Packers are. Plus the Atlanta front office is motivated to win now, because they realize that Matt Ryan is going to command a blockbuster deal in a year or two and they will probably have to dismantle the team to pay for it.
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Zero2Cool on 8/16/2013(UTC)
Offline Laser Gunns  
#3 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 4:35:09 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel Go to Quoted Post
I personally don't think, his public overtures notwithstanding, Steven Jackson was ever genuinely interested in playing for the Packers; I think he was aiming for the Falcons all along. And frankly, I don't blame him. If I were a free agent interested in playing for a contender, I would do the same thing. I think the Falcons are much closer to a championship right now than the Packers are. Plus the Atlanta front office is motivated to win now, because they realize that Matt Ryan is going to command a blockbuster deal in a year or two and they will probably have to dismantle the team to pay for it.


totally agree.


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Offline Rockmolder  
#4 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 6:17:14 AM(UTC)
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Nick Collins was drafted in 2005 and was seen as a reach 'till 2008. Maybe we should give McMillian a little more time.

Next to that, we never had a nr. 1 safety next to Collins, so Burnett could very well be that guy next year. I still think he's quite a promising young player.

Scott Wells has been gone for one season, was always decent, except for that last year where he performed admirably. Yes, we're off worse that we were with them, but this was one year ago.

To the OLB position... There's no bigger critic on that position than me. I've been yelling for a second pass rusher for ages, but let's be fair here, we made Nick Perry a first rounder last year. There wasn't really anyone to replace there in the first place. Cullen Jenkins was our RE in the 4-3, RE in the 3-4. We've never had a good pass rushing OLB. Perry might just be that guy. I believe he will be decent. Not Matthews, Ware or anything, but more of an Anthony Spencer role.

Yes, we haven't replaced Clifton properly (with a lot of bad luck again, as you stated), but look at the O-line overall. Our guard play is borderline elite, our RT play has been better than it was a year or three ago, our O-line overall has improved.

Ryan Grant we haven't replaced... But a 2nd day pick should fix that. Just a third rounder who can run between the tackles and we're done there. It's a mistery to me why we haven't done just that.

I agree with you that we haven't filled up the positions you mentioned as good as we should've, but I also think that things like our overall cornerplay, our ILB group, our O-line as a whole, our TE play (from Lee etc)... You can't constantly reload at a position of strength. It's just not possible. And I think that we've done our best to do so, but we've hit a lot of bad luck in terms of injuries. I feel like we'll be alright though, even though, as NSD stated, the Falcons are a better team than we are now.
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Offline play2win  
#5 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 8:23:46 AM(UTC)
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This goes way back to Corey Williams. At the time, he was an important, up and coming DT. Then we tag & trade him after the 2007 season, having come off of 2 consecutive 7 sack seasons in GB. Traded 2/08 for a R2 that became Brian Brohm.

I'm sure Ted was feeling pretty good, having drafted Justin Harrell in 2007 in the first round. Ted added no one on the DL that 2008 draft. 2009 we draft Raji and Matthews. Took two years to add more pass rush to compensate for the loss of Williams. The addition at Corey Williams position two years later was a 6th round pick from that same '09 draft named Jarius Wynn.

Ted tries, and a lot of this stuff has not worked. It is really unfortunate. Both the Harrell and the Mike Neal picks should have amounted to something, but they were the wrong players to pick at those draft positions. At least there is still hope for Neal.

Then again, every GM tries. The stuff just doesn't always work. Belichick is a prime example.

I give Ted a lot of credit for trying. Derek Sherrod is a player we all had really high hopes for in addressing the other side in the trenches. Couldn't have expected his misfortune, and we may never realize anything from that R1 in 2011. Nick Perry was a good pick, I thought. Again, who could have seen something like that happening? For every bummer result, he still finds gems that offset some of the other misfortunes, some of the other mistakes.

I've railed on him recently for not trying harder this offseason, without really considering the giant contract loads he is forced to handle in Rodgers, Matthews and Raji, amongst others. As a fan, I think I made a mistake there. We don't know his plan, but we know the task he is faced with, and BAL's purge of a monster load of talent exemplifies how difficult a task it was for them just to fit Flacco into their cap. Ozzie Newsome's task there seems to pale in comparison to Ted Thompson's. I wish Ted well.

I'm thinking the plan now is simply to wing it with what we have, and hope for the best. I would say if 4 draft picks work out well at key positions, we could have a very good chance at being successful and challenging again for the Lombardi this season.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#6 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 8:30:24 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Ted tries, and a lot of this stuff has not worked.




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Offline play2win  
#7 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 8:38:32 AM(UTC)
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Well, I meant "of late."

I do believe we all were hoping for a solid run of SBs after our win in the 2010 season. We needed some players on our D to help us get there, especially front 7, and it didn't happen. Did it?

Have we improved since winning SB XLV? Or, have we digressed?
Offline Zero2Cool  
#8 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 8:41:17 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Well, I meant "of late."

I do believe we all were hoping for a solid run of SBs after our win in the 2010 season. We needed some players on our D to help us get there and it didn't happen. Did it?

Have we improved since winning SB XLV? Or, have we digressed?


I think 2011 and 2012 were the Packers last "best shot" chances of winning a Super Bowl. Seahawks, 49ers and couple other teams are coming up in the NFC and the Packers aren't improving. I don't see how they win again unless they yield some Randall Cobb type contributors in the draft.

The players aren't nearly the problem as much as the scheme and preparation. The moment this defense focus's on fundamental football, the moment they become a top five defense.
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Offline play2win  
#9 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 8:47:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I think 2011 and 2012 were the Packers last "best shot" chances of winning a Super Bowl. Seahawks, 49ers and couple other teams are coming up in the NFC and the Packers aren't improving. I don't see how they win again unless they yield some Randall Cobb type contributors in the draft.

The players aren't nearly the problem as much as the scheme and preparation. The moment this defense focus's on fundamental football, the moment they become a top five defense.


I agree with you whole heartedly on scheme and prep. AND, that those were HUGE opportunities for us, and we blew them.

I'm going to throw another example of Ted Thompson having earnestly tried to improve that giant sucking sound of "lack of pass rush" on our DL, and being dealt with huge misfortune: Mike Neal crumpling to the ground in TC, August of 2011 with a blown out knee.

Imagine, if Neal had been able to stay healthy, and fully contribute on the DL during that magical stretch, we may have indeed gone undefeated. Ted was thinking Neal would compensate for the loss of Jenkins. It just didn't work out that way.

I will say this, Ted did not add a decent defender when Neal went down to take his place in 2011, via FA or trade, which I think he should have done.
Offline nerdmann  
#10 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:30:06 AM(UTC)
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The problem with this team is fundamentals.

Get back to that, and we'll stop shitting ourselves in the playoffs.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline PackerTraxx  
#11 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 10:11:03 AM(UTC)
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Considering the circumstances, draft position, injuries, salary cap, and aging I believe Ted Thompson has done an outstanding job of keeping the Packers strong. We'll need a couple of breaks to win another SB because some teams have passed us. Teams such as SF, Atlanta and so forth. But if they have the same things happen to them as we have had since the SB win things will change quickly for them also.
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Offline nerdmann  
#12 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 10:29:07 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx Go to Quoted Post
Considering the circumstances, draft position, injuries, salary cap, and aging I believe Ted Thompson has done an outstanding job of keeping the Packers strong. We'll need a couple of breaks to win another SB because some teams have passed us. Teams such as SF, Atlanta and so forth. But if they have the same things happen to them as we have had since the SB win things will change quickly for them also.


I don't get what's so great about Atlanta.

EDIT: What's great about the Niners is that they adhere to fundamentals, unlike what we do.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Online DoddPower  
#13 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 12:06:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
I don't get what's so great about Atlanta.

EDIT: What's great about the Niners is that they adhere to fundamentals, unlike what we do.


Me either. Atlanta is good, but I still like the Packers chances to beat them any day, especially in the playoffs. Steven Jackson was a nice add for them, but the Packers can definitely still compete and beat them. The packers will be a completely different team if just a few players step up, such as Nick Perry and Sherrord. And then there are others like Hayward, McMillan, Neal, Jolly, Barclay, D. Harris, the list goes on. That's not even considering the draft or any cheap but decent free agents that are still out there. I'm not as worried as some are here. The Packers will be contenders.
Offline DarkaneRules  
#14 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 1:40:43 PM(UTC)
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I want a toughness injection. I don't like the finesse stigma. I don't know if this will come out right but I think it is time to draft an "asshole" or two. Some guys who may not be the picture of mr. nice guy but will knock the crap out of you out there. That is my two cents at the moment.
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Offline cheeseheads123  
#15 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 2:01:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Well, I meant "of late."

I do believe we all were hoping for a solid run of SBs after our win in the 2010 season. We needed some players on our D to help us get there, especially front 7, and it didn't happen. Did it?

Have we improved since winning SB XLV? Or, have we digressed?


I don't think anyone saw the defense declining the way it did from 2010 to 2011.
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Offline play2win  
#16 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 2:23:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: cheeseheads123 Go to Quoted Post
I don't think anyone saw the defense declining the way it did from 2010 to 2011.


After losing Cullen Jenkins to Free Agency? And then, Mike Neal to a knee injury before the season even started?
Offline cheeseheads123  
#17 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 2:43:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
After losing Cullen Jenkins to Free Agency? And then, Mike Neal to a knee injury before the season even started?

You don't expect to go from one of the best defenses in the league to one of the worsts by losing Cullen Jenkins
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Offline play2win  
#18 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 3:14:27 PM(UTC)
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I did. I was SUPER concerned, before he even left, before the SB, when there was chatter about his impending FA and not getting a deal. To me, he was one of those guys a team could not lose.

We might have been just fine, had Neal not gotten hurt too.
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#19 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 3:33:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Well, I meant "of late."

I do believe we all were hoping for a solid run of SBs after our win in the 2010 season. We needed some players on our D to help us get there, especially front 7, and it didn't happen. Did it?

Have we improved since winning SB XLV? Or, have we digressed?


Digressed huh? hahahaha. I would suggest we haven't even REgressed. An inspired finish by a team not expected to go to/win the Super Bowl, followed by 15-1, followed by an injury-plagued 11-5 with a playoff loss to a 49er team playing out of their minds who then proceded come back down to earth against Atlanta and Baltimore.

I hate defending Ted Thompson. I got fried in the other forum for suggesting he was not quite a "great GM". Most of the original post of this thread is valid. Yet we still have a great team, possibly the best in the league. If Sherrod and Perry and Bishop come back and play as they were expected to play, then things will be fine. Thompson in fact has upgraded RB, WR, CB, and arguably OT and OLB if Sherrod and Perry do the job. Safety also we may already have the pieces in place. Center also, the jury is still out, but EDS may well be a long term solution. That basically leaves the D Line, and hopefully that is addressed in the first round this year.

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Offline play2win  
#20 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 4:20:40 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Digressed huh? hahahaha. I would suggest we haven't even REgressed. An inspired finish by a team not expected to go to/win the Super Bowl, followed by 15-1, followed by an injury-plagued 11-5 with a playoff loss to a 49er team playing out of their minds who then proceded come back down to earth against Atlanta and Baltimore.

I hate defending Ted Thompson. I got fried in the other forum for suggesting he was not quite a "great GM". Most of the original post of this thread is valid. Yet we still have a great team, possibly the best in the league. If Sherrod and Perry and Bishop come back and play as they were expected to play, then things will be fine. Thompson in fact has upgraded RB, WR, CB, and arguably OT and OLB if Sherrod and Perry do the job. Safety also we may already have the pieces in place. Center also, the jury is still out, but EDS may well be a long term solution. That basically leaves the D Line, and hopefully that is addressed in the first round this year.



Regressed. Yes. And we did. If you couldn't see that amidst our 15-1 run ending in a loss at home in the playoffs to the NYG, breaking records, NFL records for all-time defensive futility in 2011, well...

Lets add into the equation other defenses took most of that season to figure our offense out, and our own staff failed to adjust since. I'd say this team has regressed overall. Our defense improved greatly in 2012, in some respects, and got worse in others. Sacks & INTs improved, as did a drop in explosive plays via the pass. But, our run D set NFL records for futility.

Regardless, I agree with you that we are not too far away from being a good team again. It's weird. We are in a spot with some big unknowns that could factor in to our benefit, if some of these players return healthy. Perry, Bishop, House, Williams, Bulaga, Benson. I don't hold out much hope for DJ Smith, Worthy or Sherrod. But Quarless could help, Jordy could stand a fully healthy year.

Get some players back healthy, add 3 or 4 who really contribute via the draft, and we can compete. I would add, change the toughness mindset with some better coaching and play calling, and we could be back in this thing.

I appreciate your take and I agree with you quite a bit.
Offline steveishere  
#21 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 5:17:30 PM(UTC)
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It will be cool getting 4 first round picks this year that weren't on the team that was in the playoffs last year. That should give a decent boost.
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#22 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 7:16:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
It will be cool getting 4 first round picks this year that weren't on the team that was in the playoffs last year. That should give a decent boost.


Sherrod, Perry, the new first rounder, and who else?

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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#23 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 7:18:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Sherrod, Perry, the new first rounder, and who else?



Oh yeah, Bulaga - answered my own question

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Offline Zero2Cool  
#24 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 7:25:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
It will be cool getting 4 first round picks this year that weren't on the team that was in the playoffs last year. That should give a decent boost.


So, you think players that couldn't make it a full season, are going to help this upcoming season? Flapper
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Offline beast  
#25 Posted : Saturday, March 16, 2013 7:41:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
It will be cool getting 4 first round picks this year that weren't on the team that was in the playoffs last year. That should give a decent boost.
Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Sherrod, Perry, the new first rounder, and who else?
Sherrod, Perry, Bulaga and whom ever they pick this year (if they don't trade out of the 1st round)

I think the Packers NEED to upgrade the DL.

Depending how bad Worthy's knee got hurt, he might miss most or all of the season.

Love Raji's potential but he's not getting it done and struggles run clogging (which you want out of a NT) and he doesn't have the arm reach you would look for to put at 3-4 DE. And then because he's not excited about all the run clogging, he then get down with his pass rushing. This might sound odd, but I think losing Jenkins took some of the excitement out of the game for Raji and someone on the DL for him to compete with and push him. That or he just doesn't seem like the same guy in the pass rush he used to be.

Pickett is great at run clogging, but struggles in pass rush.

Wilson and Neal have their moments, but other than flashing potential here and there seem like back-ups to me.

Too early for Worthy and Daniels, thought Worthy has look good against the run, not so much pass rushing. Daniels has flashed at times, despite being a little bit limited to do his smaller size, the kid is VERY scrappy and hard worker.

I thought Daniels looked like the Packers 2nd best DL against 49ers, mainly because other than Pickett and Daniels the rest looked like they were getting their butt kicked badly. Pickett and Daniels didn't do great but seemed to hold their own and I enjoyed Daniels vs their RT battle.
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