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Offline MintBaconDrivel  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 2:16:01 AM(UTC)
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PackersNews wrote:
Brad Jones' new contract makes him higher paid than A.J. Hawk and the team's second-highest paid inside linebacker, behind Desmond Bishop.

Message modified by moderator Tuesday, March 26, 2013 4:53:26 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Delivering the latest and most important updates on the Green Bay Packers for your convenience.
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Offline play2win  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 8:57:56 AM(UTC)
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Hey, let's send Finley a giant check for this birthday too! It is raining money in Green Bay!

Wheeeeee!

IMO, both of these guys have a lot to play up to in these contracts. Let's hope these high prices paid out result in another Lombardi Trophy in Green Bay. That's our goal here, right?
Offline Pack93z  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 9:09:50 AM(UTC)
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I love articles like this.. ignore the whole contract to pick a segments of it that fits a headline.

The overall compensation doesn't surpass Hawk.. this year, in which the majority of the signing bonus is absorbed in the front of the contract (like Green Bay regularly does) surpassed the cap number of a reworked contract in which much of Hawks signing bonus as already been paid out but still being leveraged against the cap.

Subjective journalism to manufacture a headline. Applause
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline DakotaT  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 9:59:54 AM(UTC)
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If Hawk wouldn't have to be pulled o ff the field on third down, he would have never been asked to take a paycut. I'm linebacker envious of the 49er's. I love Matthews, but we have considerable dropoff after that.
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Offline Dulak  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 11:44:24 AM(UTC)
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bleh - I dont know how much we are paying brad 'sucky' jones but wth? - so we wont pay people that are an inspiration to the team or great players but we will over pay lackluster people just because they are sitting in green bay?

geez - serious brad jones hasnt done jack since he's been here; only reason he had that decent year with some sacks is because teams were trying to stop CM and so let jones run free.

No good DE's out there? or even a decent OLB? so what we get rid of zombo and walden (granted sounds like he got a good deal elsewhere) but still I dont even know whose playing our backers -

Offline DoddPower  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 12:44:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dulak Go to Quoted Post
bleh - I dont know how much we are paying brad 'sucky' jones but wth? - so we wont pay people that are an inspiration to the team or great players but we will over pay lackluster people just because they are sitting in green bay?

geez - serious brad jones hasnt done jack since he's been here; only reason he had that decent year with some sacks is because teams were trying to stop CM and so let jones run free.

No good DE's out there? or even a decent OLB? so what we get rid of zombo and walden (granted sounds like he got a good deal elsewhere) but still I dont even know whose playing our backers -



Brad Jones' best contributions to this team is his coverage skills, and those can't be overlooked. He's certainly not an elite coverage MLB, but he is as good and likely better than anyone else on the roster that we have currently seen, imo. Coverage ability from a teams MLB's is a key weakness that can be exposed and abused by many teams, especially against guys like Hawk, Bishop, and DJ Smith.
Offline DakotaT  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 1:30:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doddpower Go to Quoted Post
Brad Jones' best contributions to this team is his coverage skills, and those can't be overlooked. He's certainly not an elite coverage MLB, but he is as good and likely better than anyone else on the roster that we have currently seen, imo. Coverage ability from a teams MLB's is a key weakness that can be exposed and abused by many teams, especially against guys like Hawk, Bishop, and DJ Smith.


Agreed, you need a thumper and coverage middle linebacker. When you get two guys that can do both like the 49ers have, then you have the building blocks for a great defense. We do not have that yet in Green Bay. I have my fingers crossed on Manning though.
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Offline nerdmann  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 1:58:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Agreed, you need a thumper and coverage middle linebacker. When you get two guys that can do both like the 49ers have, then you have the building blocks for a great defense. We do not have that yet in Green Bay. I have my fingers crossed on Manning though.


I have high hopes for Manning too.

And I agree, Jones has outplayed Hawk. BJ is underrated, imo.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline Zero2Cool  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 2:00:41 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
I have high hopes for Manning too.

And I agree, Jones has outplayed Hawk. BJ is underrated, imo.


B.J. Raji?
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Online buckeyepackfan  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 2:05:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
B.J. Raji?


Think........


Face. Palm........


Rolling On The Floor Laughing.......

Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
Offline DoddPower  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 2:10:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
BJ is underrated, imo.


You have high hopes for a BJ, eh? Or you think their under-rated? ;-)

thanks Post received 1 applause.
play2win on 3/26/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 2:35:47 PM(UTC)
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Brad Jones does have promise at MLB. Last season was the best I've ever seen from him. 56 Tackles. 2 sacks. 4 PD. 1 FF.

But, those numbers do not correlate to the contract he was given. That's what I do not get. He's going to have to seriously raise his game to earn that. He played the middle last year, and TEs caught passes on us over the middle like crazy last season. With his measureables, he should be good in coverage, 6-3 230 - though I didn't see incredible coverage skills to warrant that kind of contract. Maybe he makes some picks this year.

Hawk's 2010 season might be a good barometer, as his play at MLB was solid. 111 Tackles, 10 PDs, 3 INTs, 0.5 sacks.

Bishop's 2010 was good too. 71 Tackles, 8 PDs, 1 INT, 3 sacks, 2 FFs.
Offline DoddPower  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 2:44:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Brad Jones does have promise at MLB. Last season was the best I've ever seen from him. 56 Tackles. 2 sacks. 4 PD. 1 FF.

But, those numbers do not correlate to the contract he was given. That's what I do not get. He's going to have to seriously raise his game to earn that. He played the middle last year, and TEs caught passes on us over the middle like crazy last season. With his measureables, he should be good in coverage, 6-3 230 - though I didn't see incredible coverage skills to warrant that kind of contract. Maybe he makes some picks this year.

Hawk's 2010 season might be a good barometer, as his play at MLB was solid. 111 Tackles, 10 PDs, 3 INTs, 0.5 sacks.

Bishop's 2010 was good too. 71 Tackles, 8 PDs, 1 INT, 3 sacks, 2 FFs.


I'm not trying to compare the two situations, but many didn't think Aaron Rodgers earned his first big contract extension after a few games, and it turned out to be a steal for the Packers. Point being, sometimes a GM rolls the dice and wins big, and some times they don't and end up over-paying some. It's the ebb and flow of the business. Players don't always get contracts they deserve, both for the good and the bad of the player/organization. Brad Jones reportedly received a lot of interest from other teams, so the market drove up his price a bit. Again, the nature of the business.

Offline nerdmann  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 3:17:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doddpower Go to Quoted Post
You have high hopes for a BJ, eh? Or you think their under-rated? ;-)




Sorry honey, you're not my type. xoxo
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline nerdmann  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 3:19:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Brad Jones does have promise at MLB. Last season was the best I've ever seen from him. 56 Tackles. 2 sacks. 4 PD. 1 FF.

But, those numbers do not correlate to the contract he was given. That's what I do not get. He's going to have to seriously raise his game to earn that. He played the middle last year, and TEs caught passes on us over the middle like crazy last season. With his measureables, he should be good in coverage, 6-3 230 - though I didn't see incredible coverage skills to warrant that kind of contract. Maybe he makes some picks this year.

Hawk's 2010 season might be a good barometer, as his play at MLB was solid. 111 Tackles, 10 PDs, 3 INTs, 0.5 sacks.

Bishop's 2010 was good too. 71 Tackles, 8 PDs, 1 INT, 3 sacks, 2 FFs.


56 tackles in how many games? Keep in mind he didn't see the field until about week 6. Prorated over a full season, those numbers aren't bad.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:03:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Brad Jones does have promise at MLB. Last season was the best I've ever seen from him. 56 Tackles. 2 sacks. 4 PD. 1 FF.

But, those numbers do not correlate to the contract he was given. That's what I do not get. He's going to have to seriously raise his game to earn that. He played the middle last year, and TEs caught passes on us over the middle like crazy last season. With his measureables, he should be good in coverage, 6-3 230 - though I didn't see incredible coverage skills to warrant that kind of contract. Maybe he makes some picks this year.

Hawk's 2010 season might be a good barometer, as his play at MLB was solid. 111 Tackles, 10 PDs, 3 INTs, 0.5 sacks.

Bishop's 2010 was good too. 71 Tackles, 8 PDs, 1 INT, 3 sacks, 2 FFs.


Since their numbers compare, what does that say about the contract Bishop got? He hasn't lived up to what he got.

I think all they need to do is to cut Jones lose this year on defense. At OLB he was opposite matthews, which tended to be more of a play it safe position. Don't let them escape from clay your way. He should be better getting off blocks than Bishop with his pass rush experience, he is bigger and faster, which should help in tackling and coverage. And when they drop to 3LBers in pass downs, it actually gives them extra flexibility. If they want, they can rush Jones while shifting Clay and Perry around the line more.

And having Hawk in on run downs to protect against the big cut back, while Jones attacks the run play. I think they also need to conceed that Hawk will just be a running down LBer, and have him put some weight back on, right around 250. I think Jones has room to put some size on also.
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Online buckeyepackfan  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:24:19 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
If Hawk wouldn't have to be pulled o ff the field on third down, he would have never been asked to take a paycut. I'm linebacker envious of the 49er's. I love Matthews, but we have considerable dropoff after that.



Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying

Obviously YOU have know clue why players play when they do.

Love it !!!! Gonna be able to laugh at your posts for another year!!!

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

"In February, McCarthy and Dom Capers, his defensive coordinator, had an extensive conversation about how to improve what had been a lousy defense. They looked at playing-time totals for players from scrimmage and on special teams, and neither liked what they saw."

"Together, they reached the conclusion that too many players had played too many snaps before their most important game of the season against New York."


"Using playing time from the regular season only, official league statistics reveal that 10 members of the defense played more than 800 snaps from scrimmage and on special teams in 2011.

Morgan Burnett led with 1,116 snaps (1,081 on defense, 35 on special teams). Charlie Peprah was next with 1,047 (933, 114), followed by Tramon Williams with 997 (994, three), Charles Woodson with 994 (988, six), Erik Walden with 971 (902, 69), Clay Matthews with 968 (954, 14), B.J. Raji with 932 (872, 60), A.J. Hawk with 885, (880, five), Sam Shields with 856 (735, 121) and Desmond Bishop with 844 (836, eight)."


"McCarthy said Hawk was a better performer playing 65% of the defensive snaps, as he is this year, than playing 80%, as he did last year."

When the team's research people bring McCarthy the playing-time sheets now, he has to be pleased. At position after position, the burden and the hits are being shared, exactly as he hoped they would

General manager Ted Thompson clearly was on board with McCarthy's diagnosis. One reason he selected defensive players with his first six draft choices was to give the coaches the manpower to implement their plan.

"That's why we got those young guys," said McCarthy. "Coming out of training camp I felt like, hey, we might not be starting the season the way we really wanted. But we felt we had to get those guys ready because we wanted to get better at the end of the season."

FULL ARTICLE
http://www.jsonline.com/...y-v17f9o3-177131271.html

Message modified by user Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:48:02 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
Offline nerdmann  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 8:45:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Since their numbers compare, what does that say about the contract Bishop got? He hasn't lived up to what he got.

I think all they need to do is to cut Jones lose this year on defense. At OLB he was opposite matthews, which tended to be more of a play it safe position. Don't let them escape from clay your way. He should be better getting off blocks than Bishop with his pass rush experience, he is bigger and faster, which should help in tackling and coverage. And when they drop to 3LBers in pass downs, it actually gives them extra flexibility. If they want, they can rush Jones while shifting Clay and Perry around the line more.

And having Hawk in on run downs to protect against the big cut back, while Jones attacks the run play. I think they also need to conceed that Hawk will just be a running down LBer, and have him put some weight back on, right around 250. I think Jones has room to put some size on also.


Bishop's another run stuffer. With him and Hawk, that's two run stuffers side by side. In a pass happy league.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline nerdmann  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, March 26, 2013 8:47:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying Crying

Obviously YOU have know clue why players play when they do.

Love it !!!! Gonna be able to laugh at your posts for another year!!!

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

"In February, McCarthy and Dom Capers, his defensive coordinator, had an extensive conversation about how to improve what had been a lousy defense. They looked at playing-time totals for players from scrimmage and on special teams, and neither liked what they saw."

"Together, they reached the conclusion that too many players had played too many snaps before their most important game of the season against New York."


"Using playing time from the regular season only, official league statistics reveal that 10 members of the defense played more than 800 snaps from scrimmage and on special teams in 2011.

Morgan Burnett led with 1,116 snaps (1,081 on defense, 35 on special teams). Charlie Peprah was next with 1,047 (933, 114), followed by Tramon Williams with 997 (994, three), Charles Woodson with 994 (988, six), Erik Walden with 971 (902, 69), Clay Matthews with 968 (954, 14), B.J. Raji with 932 (872, 60), A.J. Hawk with 885, (880, five), Sam Shields with 856 (735, 121) and Desmond Bishop with 844 (836, eight)."


"McCarthy said Hawk was a better performer playing 65% of the defensive snaps, as he is this year, than playing 80%, as he did last year."

When the team's research people bring McCarthy the playing-time sheets now, he has to be pleased. At position after position, the burden and the hits are being shared, exactly as he hoped they would

General manager Ted Thompson clearly was on board with McCarthy's diagnosis. One reason he selected defensive players with his first six draft choices was to give the coaches the manpower to implement their plan.

"That's why we got those young guys," said McCarthy. "Coming out of training camp I felt like, hey, we might not be starting the season the way we really wanted. But we felt we had to get those guys ready because we wanted to get better at the end of the season."

FULL ARTICLE
http://www.jsonline.com/...y-v17f9o3-177131271.html


I'm not sure what your point is Buckeye. Are you trying to say that Hawk is great in coverage?

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline play2win  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 4:52:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Since their numbers compare, what does that say about the contract Bishop got? He hasn't lived up to what he got.

I think all they need to do is to cut Jones lose this year on defense. At OLB he was opposite matthews, which tended to be more of a play it safe position. Don't let them escape from clay your way. He should be better getting off blocks than Bishop with his pass rush experience, he is bigger and faster, which should help in tackling and coverage. And when they drop to 3LBers in pass downs, it actually gives them extra flexibility. If they want, they can rush Jones while shifting Clay and Perry around the line more.

And having Hawk in on run downs to protect against the big cut back, while Jones attacks the run play. I think they also need to conceed that Hawk will just be a running down LBer, and have him put some weight back on, right around 250. I think Jones has room to put some size on also.


Hey PackFanWithTwins,

Jones seems to have the potential to be close in comparison to Bishop, but I don't think he is there yet. Bishop is the more complete player IMO, with a better nose for the ball. He forces more turnovers, and does a better job of getting to the QB. He's also a better tackler, with 77 and 90 tackles in 12 and 13 starts in 2010/2011.

Losing Desmond Bishop really hurt us last season, and I was happy with Jones' improvement in stepping in for him.

Hawk was great in coverage two seasons ago, and I hope he can get back to that. I'm excited about Manning adding to the competition in the middle too.

If we add another ILB in the draft, the landscape here could change quite a bit, especially if Manning comes through.
Online buckeyepackfan  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 12:35:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
I'm not sure what your point is Buckeye. Are you trying to say that Hawk is great in coverage?



I have no point to make.

Wait i have one point to make.

On A.J Hawk...some of you guys have been.

Beating Deadhorse Beating Deadhorse Beating Deadhorse Beating Deadhorse Beating Deadhorse Beating Deadhorse Beating Deadhorse Beating Deadhorse Beating Deadhorse

fOR THE LAST TIME....A.J Hawk IS NOT THE PROBLEM!!!!!

The problem is THE GUYS DRAFTED TO SHARE AND AT SOME POINT TAKE PLAYING TIME FROM HAWK CAN'T STAY ON THE FIELD!!!!!

Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
Offline DakotaT  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 1:01:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
I'm not sure what your point is Buckeye. Are you trying to say that Hawk is great in coverage?



Buckeye never has a point. He takes fluff media articles and rough statistics as evidence and proof. Green Bay lost its coverage linebacker in Brandon Chillar and have been looking for that guy and found him in Brad Jones, which is why he got his contract. To add fuel to the fire, we lost Nick Collins and have been waiting for a young guy to emerge in the secondary.

AJ Hawk's starting position is ripe for the pickings, and I fully expect him to play his ass off this year. I'd love to see him start playing down hill and make more impact plays, but that dog doesn't seem to hunt. Maybe he's being shackled and forced to be a read and react linebacker, but I don't ever want to see him trailing a fast tight by 2 yards again. Unless he's blitzing - he needs to be off the field on third down cause he just does not have the speed to compete with the evolving tight end.
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Offline DoddPower  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 2:10:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Hawk was great in coverage two seasons ago, and I hope he can get back to that. I'm excited about Manning adding to the competition in the middle too.



I have personally never watched Hawk be "great" in coverage, regardless of what the statistics may show for 2010. I suppose we have all opinions, though.

Online buckeyepackfan  
#24 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:28:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Buckeye never has a point. He takes fluff media articles and rough statistics as evidence and proof. Green Bay lost its coverage linebacker in Brandon Chillar and have been looking for that guy and found him in Brad Jones, which is why he got his contract. To add fuel to the fire, we lost Nick Collins and have been waiting for a young guy to emerge in the secondary.

AJ Hawk's starting position is ripe for the pickings, and I fully expect him to play his ass off this year. I'd love to see him start playing down hill and make more impact plays, but that dog doesn't seem to hunt. Maybe he's being shackled and forced to be a read and react linebacker, but I don't ever want to see him trailing a fast tight by 2 yards again. Unless he's blitzing - he needs to be off the field on third down cause he just does not have the speed to compete with the evolving tight end.


Rough statistics? The only stats I ever post are the ones off of The Packers Home website.
Hmmmmm...I guess they are posting false stats, well you certainly can't trust them.

Fluff media article?
hmmmmm.......Again that article from packers.com, I posted the link so the whole story could be read....AGAIN, since it was published and posted on packerhome.com in January.

So I guess my options are to believe an article from Packers.com with quotes from The HC, and The GM, or believe your yearly unfounded rants and ramblings about A.J. Hawk among others.

I guess if I choose to believe you, that would mean Ted, Mike and pretty much the whole Packer organization is lying to it's fan base.

I have no clue why A.J. Hawk restructured his contract?
According to you he was not a man that had "that type of character". Who was WRONG again?

AJ's starting position is ripe for the pickings? What a prediction from you, the same one for the last 4 years!!!!

As with #80, #25, and others sooner or later you will be right, but that is after you have been WRONG many more times.

You've made your agenda pretty clear here, there are certain players who you will rag on and find fault with until they are gone.

It's just real tiresome to read the same old crap year after year.

I choose to let Ted, Mike, and Co. make the decisions on who and when they play. I choose to support any player who makes the 53 man lineup.

May I suggest that if you don't like the players on the field, then your problem shouldn't be with the player, it should be with Ted Thompson, Mike McCarthy, and the rest of The Packers organization, they are the ones who decide who gets the chance to play for The Green bay Packers, and how much they get paid.

Now go back to Beating Deadhorse Beating Deadhorse Beating Deadhorse Beating Deadhorse Beating Deadhorse .
Enjoy the ride – It kicks and just keeps on kickin’. "Stats are for Losers"
Offline DoddPower  
#25 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:12:37 PM(UTC)
DoddPower

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FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Gold: 2011

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Joined: 9/24/2007(UTC)
Location: Visalia, CA

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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
Now go back to Beating Deadhorse Beating Deadhorse Beating Deadhorse Beating Deadhorse Beating Deadhorse .


Go advice for both of ya! Wanna Box? Wanna Box?

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