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Offline PackerTraxx  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 6:10:51 AM(UTC)
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On offense I would like to see Aaron take more of what the defense gives them rather than forcing it downfield. Keep drives alive and keep the defense of the field.

On defense just generally more aggressive. We should have better personnel with Perry back, more experience for our 2nd year players, perhaps Huff, and maybe a draft choice or 2 that can help. Has Woodson signed anywhere yet?
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nerdmann on 3/27/2013(UTC)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 6:12:37 AM(UTC)
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I would just like the defense to yield less points than the offense puts up. How? I don't have a clue. Maybe less Ryan Pickett and A.J. Hawk on the field would be a good place to start?
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Online Mucky Tundra  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 7:12:28 AM(UTC)
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On offense-Shorter pass plays and running to control the clock to grind down defenses and less throwing deep into defenses that are just sitting back. The offense looked so much better and "organic" at the end of last year once Mike McCarthy started going to the run more rather than seemingly trying to force a hot streak out of Rodgers and getting him sacked constantly. I hope that with losing Jennings, Mike McCarthy will go with a "less is more" approach to offense.

On defense-less of the 2 DL stuff

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Offline wpr  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 7:19:12 AM(UTC)
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see above.
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Offline play2win  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 7:37:46 AM(UTC)
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I want to see a complete shift to a run oriented power game on offense. Smash the opposing D in the face and wear them out. My feelings all along have been that our personnel on the OL were compromised by falling back into pass blocking sets too often, to the point where we were not as effective in the passing game. I think they are better than they have shown, and I do anticipate EDS will play a big part of our success up front at C.

Most of this is attitude. I want to see this change, so that no one will want to play us. Add a RB to Harris and we can torch the opposition by giving them a heavy dose of both runners, opening up the field for the passing game, while taking the heat off of Rodgers.

As for the defense, I think the only way we improve is by adding personnel on the DL and at S, while hoping our LBs get healthy and improve. I think they should play better with more effective DL play.

Most of this is personnel. Capers simply did not have the players to run an effective 3-4 with all of the injuries we incurred over the past two years.
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yooperfan on 3/27/2013(UTC)
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 11:35:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I want to see a complete shift to a run oriented power game on offense.


This would be great. Then we can release that useless Rodgers rather than have him take up salary space.

Seriously. We could then stop going to the playoffs and I might ascend on the Season Tickets list at a faster rate.

You have a freaking MVP at QB! Everytime you take the ball out of his hands, the other team benefits. I will agree that the Packers need to improve some in their running game. But to switch over to a run oriented power game? That's a fantasy come true for the Bears, Lions, Vikings, etc.

Unless we are going back to the 1960's? But the last few years rule changes favor the passing game more all the time.

Wish all you want. As long as this team has AR, this is going to be a pass oriented Offense. And that's good. Because I personally like winning games.

Remember the Playoff game against the Vikings last year? 24-3 at the half. MVP Peterson was on the other sideline. Were you worried at all about a comeback? I wasn't. Because a run oriented power game is not designed for big comebacks. That game was over. But if that was a Manning, Rodgers, Brady, or Brees on the other side, there would have been concern.

The Packers are one of 3 teams to be in the playoffs the last 4 years straight. Why would you want to radically change the one thing that has worked well?

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DoddPower on 3/27/2013(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 12:07:17 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
This would be great. Then we can release that useless Rodgers rather than have him take up salary space.

Seriously. We could then stop going to the playoffs and I might ascend on the Season Tickets list at a faster rate.

You have a freaking MVP at QB! Everytime you take the ball out of his hands, the other team benefits. I will agree that the Packers need to improve some in their running game. But to switch over to a run oriented power game? That's a fantasy come true for the Bears, Lions, Vikings, etc.

Unless we are going back to the 1960's? But the last few years rule changes favor the passing game more all the time.

Wish all you want. As long as this team has AR, this is going to be a pass oriented Offense. And that's good. Because I personally like winning games.

Remember the Playoff game against the Vikings last year? 24-3 at the half. MVP Peterson was on the other sideline. Were you worried at all about a comeback? I wasn't. Because a run oriented power game is not designed for big comebacks. That game was over. But if that was a Manning, Rodgers, Brady, or Brees on the other side, there would have been concern.

The Packers are one of 3 teams to be in the playoffs the last 4 years straight. Why would you want to radically change the one thing that has worked well?



Did they pass that idiotic rule about the runner not leading with the crown of his helmet? Because if they did, that's just gonna encourage MORE AND MORE PASSING.

I'd like Aaron to "take what the defense gives him" more too.

I would also like more beef on our DL. We need to be able to stuff the run. Those are the biggies. Beyond that, I want another dominant OLB and maybe the safeties to emerge as elite players.
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Offline Pack93z  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 1:20:15 PM(UTC)
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I would like to see the offensive line become more physical at the point of attack to all the playbook to become more complete.. I don't want a run based attack, but I want an efficient and viable running threat element to the offense. One in which it can be relied upon consistently to be called upon in all game situations to make the offense a more efficiently balanced attack.

3rd and 1.. we have the utmost confidence they can line up and kick the shat out of the opposition to gain that one yard. Build a lead.. have the confidence in the offense to play ball and control offense to close out games. Defense getting pummeled, allow the offense to flip the time of possession game in our favor and minimize the threat against the defense.

Basically the same premise I wish for yearly.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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QCHuskerFan on 3/27/2013(UTC)
Offline DakotaT  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 1:25:19 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I want to see a complete shift to a run oriented power game on offense. Smash the opposing D in the face and wear them out. My feelings all along have been that our personnel on the OL were compromised by falling back into pass blocking sets too often, to the point where we were not as effective in the passing game. I think they are better than they have shown, and I do anticipate EDS will play a big part of our success up front at C.

Most of this is attitude. I want to see this change, so that no one will want to play us. Add a RB to Harris and we can torch the opposition by giving them a heavy dose of both runners, opening up the field for the passing game, while taking the heat off of Rodgers.

As for the defense, I think the only way we improve is by adding personnel on the DL and at S, while hoping our LBs get healthy and improve. I think they should play better with more effective DL play.

Most of this is personnel. Capers simply did not have the players to run an effective 3-4 with all of the injuries we incurred over the past two years.


You realize we have an elite passer and only 2 road graders for offensive lineman, right? I don't disagree with you, but we are nowhere near having the proper personnel for this kind of radical change.

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Offline DakotaT  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 1:29:25 PM(UTC)
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I would like to see better play calling 3rd down on both sides of the ball. Blitz more on defense, and use a heavy package on 3rd and short and pick up the first down. Every time I see a 20+ yard pass on 3rd down, I want strangle McCarthy and Rodgers simultaneously - unless of course they hit it. One of those you stupid son of / good play type of moments. The odds aren't real good going long on third down.

I'd like to see our defense lead the league in red zone defense - a very critical part of the equation to consistently winning.
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nerdmann on 3/27/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 3:16:05 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post

You have a freaking MVP at QB!

The Packers are one of 3 teams to be in the playoffs the last 4 years straight. Why would you want to radically change the one thing that has worked well?



You are not understanding. Of course we have an MVP QB. I'd like to see him have all kinds of success, but mostly, winning Super Bowls.

Running the ball more would make everything in the passing game better, especially with an MVP QB. Not to mention, the pass happy play calling has had detrimental effects on our success, and on our ability to win the big games. What about Rodgers continued health? Seems like one hell of a dice game to me, continuing to be as pass heavy as we've been and expecting him to continually come out of it unscathed.

Running more will take the heat off of Rodgers, forcing defenses to play us more honest, instead of sitting back deep in pass coverage with their DLs teeing off on our OL and Rodgers. Who gets worn out then?

And, what have we won these past two years? Bounced mercilessly out of our own Lambeau by the Giants in 2011, and by SF last year.

Running the ball more will also keep our own defense fresh while chewing up clock. You don't want that? Did you not see what adding a quality passer did to a power running game in PIT? 2 SB wins? Granted, I'm talking about doing the opposite in adding a power running game to a high quality passing attack, but the point is the same.

Did you not see who won the SB last year? How many carries do you think the Ravens RBs had in winning that Super Bowl? Against fucking San Francisco? I mean, that was a very powerful team they went up against and beat. They provided the recipe.

35.

That's exactly what we need to do. And we need the punishing personnel to do it, along with the change in mindset.

Don't be fooled. That power running game they have made Joe Flacco a superstar. BTW, their RBs rushed 30 times in winning the AFC Championship. How many games did we rush 30 or more times by our RBs? What was the result?

Rodgers is a better QB than Flacco. Right? Well, now, does this proposed change sound so preposterous?

Only fools make the same mistakes over and over expecting different results.
Offline warhawk  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 3:18:01 PM(UTC)
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I would like to see us get tougher up the middle on both sides of the ball. I want the center of the oline to open up holes for decent yards inside the Tackle position and to hold out rushers putting pressure in Rodgers face.

On D I want tougher up the middle as well. We have good OLB'rs and Corners. We need toughness up the middle in both the run game and pressuring the QB.

Sending Hawk up the middle has produced little. Pressure from the middle has been poor.

I hope for a good tough Center, a stout DL, and a gorilla ILB that will ring ears would be nice.

Just saying our talent is best going outside to in when you look at our WR's, TE's, OLB's, Corners, etc., and the inside guys need to catch up.

You look at SF or Baltimore (last year) in this regard and they both are far and away stronger in the middle than we are.
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QCHuskerFan on 3/28/2013(UTC)
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, March 27, 2013 6:36:31 PM(UTC)
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I see a lot in here about wanting a shorter passing game. It seemed to me that last season the Packers had fewer long pass plays than in the two previous seasons. I'd like to see more, not less. Furthermore, I do not want to see the Packers go to a power running dominant game. Better yardage per carry, yes - which Harris and a better O Line should give us, but using a successful passing game to set up spot running plays is what I want to see - not running to set up passing game. What do you guys want? To be like the Vikings? hahaha

I want an O Line upgrade most of all - hopefully Sherrod providing that at LT and Bulaga getting back to 2011 form at RT with EDS continuing to do the job and improve at Center. Secondarily, what I would like to see from the defense is simply getting Perry and Bishop healthy and some kind of an upgrade at DE, either improvement in Neal or a first round draft pick like Jesse Williams or both.
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QCHuskerFan on 3/28/2013(UTC)
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#14 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 6:38:15 AM(UTC)
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No more outside Zone run blocking. More run plays between tackle. Traditional WCO. Slants, drags and screens to setup the deep shots.

Defensively. Attitude and aggressiveness. Get mean up front, and on the edges. Sick of seeing 5-10 yard cushions on the WR. Instead of saying, we need to cover until the dline gets to the QB. I want them to be able ot say, we can take chances and press the WR because the QB won't have time to sit around and find an opening.
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Offline Wade  
#15 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 7:58:28 AM(UTC)
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1. Better OL play by everyone not named Sitton.
2. Better DL play by everyone not named Pickett.
3. More fundamentally-sound tackling.
4. More reliable FG kicking.
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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#16 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 8:30:59 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Did you not see who won the SB last year? How many carries do you think the Ravens RBs had in winning that Super Bowl? Against fucking San Francisco? I mean, that was a very powerful team they went up against and beat. They provided the recipe.

35.

That's exactly what we need to do. And we need the punishing personnel to do it, along with the change in mindset.

Don't be fooled. That power running game they have made Joe Flacco a superstar. BTW, their RBs rushed 30 times in winning the AFC Championship. How many games did we rush 30 or more times by our RBs? What was the result?



The power running game won the Super Bowl? Really? What about the 3 TD passes in the first half that built a 21-6 lead? One play into the second half and it was 28-6. That allowed the Ravens to run the whole second half with minimal success but draining the clock?

The Ravens RB's ran 32 times for 92 yards in the Super Bowl. 23 of those attempts were after they built a 22 point lead. You don't need a power running game to run the ball when you have a huge lead built by passing. Don't be fooled by looking at stats. The passing game won the SB for the Ravens.

You stated you 'want to see a complete shift to a run oriented power game on offense'. How is that not going away from a passing oriented team? We all want a little more balance, but to go away from what is working (And winning Super Bowls) is wrong.

Not winning the Super Bowl for 2 years is not reason to trash the offense. The offense put up 31 points against the 49ers. You should win games in which you score 31 points.

Look at the teams that have had elite running teams in the last 5 years? Tenn. Minn. Chicago. Houston. How many SB's do they have?

Look at the teams with elite passing games in the last 5 years? Packers, Patriots, Giants, Saints, Atlanta. Same question.

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wpr on 3/28/2013(UTC), DoddPower on 3/28/2013(UTC)
Offline wpr  
#17 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 8:34:09 AM(UTC)
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Offline Pack93z  
#18 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 8:42:48 AM(UTC)
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You can win a Superbowl in a number of different facets.. having a consistent running game to fall back on does nothing but give you more opportunities to win a Championship.

To me.. the key is balance.. the more you can do well and consistent.. the more opportunities it fashions to win or dominate a football game.

I think many also overlook what a running game does for your defense.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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play2win on 3/28/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#19 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 9:06:57 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
The power running game won the Super Bowl? Really? What about the 3 TD passes in the first half that built a 21-6 lead? One play into the second half and it was 28-6. That allowed the Ravens to run the whole second half with minimal success but draining the clock?

The Ravens RB's ran 32 times for 92 yards in the Super Bowl. 23 of those attempts were after they built a 22 point lead. You don't need a power running game to run the ball when you have a huge lead built by passing. Don't be fooled by looking at stats. The passing game won the SB for the Ravens.

You stated you 'want to see a complete shift to a run oriented power game on offense'. How is that not going away from a passing oriented team? We all want a little more balance, but to go away from what is working (And winning Super Bowls) is wrong.

Not winning the Super Bowl for 2 years is not reason to trash the offense. The offense put up 31 points against the 49ers. You should win games in which you score 31 points.

Look at the teams that have had elite running teams in the last 5 years? Tenn. Minn. Chicago. Houston. How many SB's do they have?

Look at the teams with elite passing games in the last 5 years? Packers, Patriots, Giants, Saints, Atlanta. Same question.



You are negating the effect their running plays had in opening up the pass in the first half. Entirely.

Just because they scored 3 TDs passing in the first half doesn't mean they weren't set up by the run.
First drive: 2 rushes out of 7 plays resulting in the TD pass.
Second drive: 1 pass, 3 straight rushes, followed by 5 pass plays results in punt.
Third drive, 3 straight rushes, pass, rush, pass, rush, pass, rush, pass for TD.
Fourth drive: rush, pass, rush, rush, pass, rush, pass, pass, rush results in turnover on downs on fake FG.
Fifth drive: pass, pass, pass TD.

16 first half rushes. 3 TD passes. But, according to you, none of those were the result of an opened up field for Flacco to throw on by Ray Rice and Bernard Pierce rushes....

OK. You're right. It was 3 passing TDs. Flacco is amazing. All done through the air. What was I thinking?

I will remind you they almost gave it all away in the 3rd Quarter by going away from the run.

Sixth drive: 3 pass plays to 1 run resulting in a punt.
Seventh drive: 2 pass plays to 1 run resulting in a punt.
Eighth drive: 1 run, 1 pass resulting in a fumble TO.

SF scores 2 TDs and a FG as a result of those failed drives to get back in it.

Oddly enough, they get their shit back together on their 9th drive: run, run, pass, pass, run, run, run, pass, run, run, pass, FG.

Tenth drive: 5 runs to 6 passes results in another FG.

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Zero2Cool on 3/28/2013(UTC)
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#20 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 10:11:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
You are negating the effect their running plays had in opening up the pass in the first half. Entirely.

Just because they scored 3 TDs passing in the first half doesn't mean they weren't set up by the run.
First drive: 2 rushes out of 7 plays resulting in the TD pass.
Second drive: 1 pass, 3 straight rushes, followed by 5 pass plays results in punt.
Third drive, 3 straight rushes, pass, rush, pass, rush, pass, rush, pass for TD.
Fourth drive: rush, pass, rush, rush, pass, rush, pass, pass, rush results in turnover on downs on fake FG.
Fifth drive: pass, pass, pass TD.

16 first half rushes. 3 TD passes. But, according to you, none of those were the result of an opened up field for Flacco to throw on by Ray Rice and Bernard Pierce rushes....

OK. You're right. It was 3 passing TDs. Flacco is amazing. All done through the air. What was I thinking?

I will remind you they almost gave it all away in the 3rd Quarter by going away from the run.

Sixth drive: 3 pass plays to 1 run resulting in a punt.
Seventh drive: 2 pass plays to 1 run resulting in a punt.
Eighth drive: 1 run, 1 pass resulting in a fumble TO.

SF scores 2 TDs and a FG as a result of those failed drives to get back in it.

Oddly enough, they get their shit back together on their 9th drive: run, run, pass, pass, run, run, run, pass, run, run, pass, FG.

Tenth drive: 5 runs to 6 passes results in another FG.


No, I am not ignoring the effect of their rushing game. You implied they won due to their 35 rushing attempts. I pointed out more than half of those attempts came after they built a huge lead. When anyone knows to run the ball and shorten the game.

During the first half while they were piling up 21 points, Baltimore rushed for whopping 46 yards on 15 carries, if my math is correct. Numbers like that did not cause the 49ers to commit 9 players to stop the run. It did not change the dynamics of the game. It was balance, no doubt. But it was not a dominating, game changing performance. That was done by the passing game.

In the SB, Baltimore RB's rushed for 92 yards on 32 carries against the 49ers. In the playoff loss to the 49ers, GB's RBs rushed for 76 yards on just 13 carries. On the basis of those stats, the Ravens should be studying the Packers so they can improve their running game.

You are confusing the need to do a better job running the ball with the need for a complete shift of the offense. The Packers Offense is just fine. Mike McCarthy needs someone to remind him to run the ball a little more often and Aaron Rodgers needs to not check out of the run quite so much. But the design is just fine.
Offline play2win  
#21 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 11:59:27 AM(UTC)
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Semantics. Whatever. Point is, nearly half of the rushing attempts were in the first half. You made it sound as if they didn't run at all in the first half:

" You don't need a power running game to run the ball when you have a huge lead built by passing. Don't be fooled by looking at stats. The passing game won the SB for the Ravens."

You are ignoring the contributions of a power running game to the Ravens' success in passing during the SB. Admit it. That lead was not built by passing alone.

The Packers offense is NOT just fine if they continue to fail to run the ball more... you admit as much in your own contradiction.

Funny example you point to, in GB's 13 carries against SF in our LOSS.

"But the design is just fine."

I'm not proposing we don't throw the football. That's insane. What I am hoping that they change is a shift in emphasis to more power running to open up our passing game more, and to give our D a blow. Really simple.

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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#22 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:59:38 PM(UTC)
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Sorry. My bad. I didn't realize when you said "a complete shift to a run oriented power game on offense", you really meant just a shift in emphasis.
Offline play2win  
#23 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:07:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
Sorry. My bad. I didn't realize when you said "a complete shift to a run oriented power game on offense", you really meant just a shift in emphasis.


Dude, we are on the same page.

I'm just hoping Ted can land all the players we will need to make the proper improvements in all of these areas. On the O side, I think we all agree the OL play was suspect, and that we have question marks at LT and C. We also lack that big power back that would help make all of this go.

BTW, I guess I was over emphasizing it a bit, since McCarthy is so emphatically against the need to run... as much as saying so in the press. Maybe he will change his tune a bit after two years of beatings suffered in the playoffs.

On D, we need big DL and S help. Maybe LB too, as Perry is a bit of a question mark, as is Bishop in their return from injury.

That is a lot of improvement to hope for with one draft.
Offline Pack93z  
#24 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:17:39 PM(UTC)
Pack93z

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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
Sorry. My bad. I didn't realize when you said "a complete shift to a run oriented power game on offense", you really meant just a shift in emphasis.


This is the core element that drove lengthy threads.. those pushing for more balance are believed to be advocating a run heavy orientation.. when in reality both sides are very close to visualizing the same thing. Well maybe except for Zombieslayer. Big Grin

Speaking of which.. gets a job and loses a Niner bet.. then disappears. ;)
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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play2win on 3/28/2013(UTC)
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#25 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:05:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
That is a lot of improvement to hope for with one draft.


Cheer up! We could be the Bears and need 4 starting OL in this one draft! And a MLB, S, DT, RB and a QB that doesn't cry.
thanks Post received 2 applause.
play2win on 3/28/2013(UTC), nerdmann on 3/28/2013(UTC)
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