You are not logged in. Join Free! | Log In Thank you!    

Welcome to your Green Bay Packers Online Community!

Since 2006, PackersHome has been providing a unique experience for fans.
Your participation is greatly anticipated!
Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages<12
Share
Options
View
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline JustJeff  
#16 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 6:29:14 AM(UTC)
JustJeff

Rank: 7th Round Draft Pick

Posts: 59
Joined: 2/5/2013(UTC)
Location: Backin' the Pack

Applause Given: 11
Applause Received: 16

Originally Posted by: dfosterf Go to Quoted Post
Show me the hole that the incompetent backs should have ran through the last 4 years. I submit that there has been no hole. Mike McCarthy is pulling a Dick Cheney. He will re-invent the friggin' hole he says he has, and he don't even have that.


This is not my work. It is from a member in my home forum. It is the perfect example of how NOT to run a stretch play. Enjoy.

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
UserPostedImage
Trips left against Nickel defense. DJ Williams motions from the left and looks like he's going to go across. Goes to H when no one motions with him.
UserPostedImage
See him at H and Crabtree lined up at WR.
UserPostedImage
Land and Sitton go for the DTs while Crabtree blocks down on the man on him. Bulaga and Williams pull right. Saturday and Newhouse go to backer. 4 players in the box no accounted for yet. Really only 3 because that backside DE isn't going to do anything.
UserPostedImage
The pitch is off and everyone is looking for a block or hit their mark already. Jones comes into the screen as the last player on the right. Safety looks like he's in position to make the play.
UserPostedImage
Bulaga takes out an unblocked defender (#4), Crabtree is still on his block, looks like Williams will go after defender #3 and Green will have the safety in open field.
UserPostedImage
And here we go.
UserPostedImage
Williams keeps pushing and there is a possible cutback lane for Green.
UserPostedImage
Williams has his guy and free Saturday can try to make a play on the S.
UserPostedImage
He gets him, Williams on block, and Crabtree on block still but defender #2 (non-playside backer) is free and is in position to make play.
UserPostedImage
And he gets him.


UserPostedImage
Offline Pack93z  
#17 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 6:34:32 AM(UTC)
Pack93z

Rank: Hall of Famer

U.S. Minor Islands
Posts: 12,605
Joined: 3/16/2007(UTC)
Location: North Central Wisconsin

Applause Given: 353
Applause Received: 937

JustJeff... to me, that is more the edge blockers fault for not sealing than it is the backs fault on that example. Williams allowed the defender the get outside his shoulder and hold edge contain. This forces the back to stay flat and wait for something as a cutback lane to form.. poorly executed blocking. My opinion from those angles.
The wolves will never lose sleep over the feelings of the sheep.

UserPostedImage
thanks Post received 1 applause.
DoddPower on 4/5/2013(UTC)
Offline JustJeff  
#18 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 6:42:04 AM(UTC)
JustJeff

Rank: 7th Round Draft Pick

Posts: 59
Joined: 2/5/2013(UTC)
Location: Backin' the Pack

Applause Given: 11
Applause Received: 16

UserPostedImage
Williams keeps pushing and there is a possible cutback lane for Green.

This is a perfect example of how Brandon Jackson ran the stretch and why he never developed into a bell cow back he could have been.

Guys who got by with speed in college sometimes find it hard to learn to be patient. When we run an outside stretch, Green has to be more patient, has to read his blocks better and - most importantly - has to have the vision to see the cutback lanes. That is the bread-and-butter of the zbs. You take your short gains, but when a cutback presents itself, plant the foot and go.

On this play, Williams is engaged and has inside position, driving the LB toward the sideline. Crabtree has the inside sealed. Green's read at this point is to cut it back inside. If Green took it inside if Williams he has open field vs a safety who is eight yards high and inside. This was a HUGE play that didn't happen.
UserPostedImage
Offline Pack93z  
#19 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 6:54:07 AM(UTC)
Pack93z

Rank: Hall of Famer

U.S. Minor Islands
Posts: 12,605
Joined: 3/16/2007(UTC)
Location: North Central Wisconsin

Applause Given: 353
Applause Received: 937

Pop ahead to frames in these stills.. that cutback lane was filled.. this is not a great example of a missed opportunity by a back.. if anything it illustrates:

*A line that gets pushed back at the point of attack
* Poor edge blocking by the Packers
* And yes, a back that was too patient and didn't cut it up and take the minimal gain that might have been there.

UserPostedImage
The wolves will never lose sleep over the feelings of the sheep.

UserPostedImage
thanks Post received 1 applause.
DoddPower on 4/5/2013(UTC)
Offline JustJeff  
#20 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 7:13:08 AM(UTC)
JustJeff

Rank: 7th Round Draft Pick

Posts: 59
Joined: 2/5/2013(UTC)
Location: Backin' the Pack

Applause Given: 11
Applause Received: 16

Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Pop ahead to frames in these stills.. that cutback lane was filled.. this is not a great example of a missed opportunity by a back.. if anything it illustrates:

*A line that gets pushed back at the point of attack
* Poor edge blocking by the Packers
* And yes, a back that was too patient and didn't cut it up and take the minimal gain that might have been there.

UserPostedImage

That still shows that Green has discovered he isn't getting to the edge. At that point, he's sitting high with his weight back, of course the hole is filled. Jeff freakin' Saturday is outside by then Laughing

UserPostedImage
Williams has not yet engaged. The linebacker is two yards upfield. Williams correctly moves upfield. If he aims for an outside seal, he surrenders his inside shoulder. By the time he gets on the linebacker, he takes him the only angle he can. If you want to fault Williams for being outrun, I can agree. However, he executed a block that gave Green a seam, which Green didn't have the patience to see, much less take.

What is most telling in the stills is Green's gate. He's full throttle for the edge from the start. Great backs have a habit of running 3/4 speed while using their eyes and explode into the hole as it opens. Vision is everything.

UserPostedImage
Offline Pack93z  
#21 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 7:15:25 AM(UTC)
Pack93z

Rank: Hall of Famer

U.S. Minor Islands
Posts: 12,605
Joined: 3/16/2007(UTC)
Location: North Central Wisconsin

Applause Given: 353
Applause Received: 937

The attached image is where the play is truly broken down.. forces the back to make a major cut and really preventing the back from exploiting the edge quicker.. then Williams can't keep the edge and allows flow inside and over the top to close the play down.

There is no way that defender should have gotten that far up field.. again failure this is not a good example of a back blowing a play.. it was littered with problems from the snap. The back had to use vital time and vision just to avoid the immediate penetration into the backfield.
Pack93z attached the following image(s):
BlownPlay.png (153kb) downloaded 0 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
The wolves will never lose sleep over the feelings of the sheep.

UserPostedImage
Offline Pack93z  
#22 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 7:23:12 AM(UTC)
Pack93z

Rank: Hall of Famer

U.S. Minor Islands
Posts: 12,605
Joined: 3/16/2007(UTC)
Location: North Central Wisconsin

Applause Given: 353
Applause Received: 937

Originally Posted by: JustJeff Go to Quoted Post
That still shows that Green has discovered he isn't getting to the edge. At that point, he's sitting high with his weight back, of course the hole is filled. Jeff freakin' Saturday is outside by then Laughing

UserPostedImage
Williams has not yet engaged. The linebacker is two yards upfield. Williams correctly moves upfield. If he aims for an outside seal, he surrenders his inside shoulder. By the time he gets on the linebacker, he takes him the only angle he can. If you want to fault Williams for being outrun, I can agree. However, he executed a block that gave Green a seam, which Green didn't have the patience to see, much less take.

What is most telling in the stills is Green's gate. He's full throttle for the edge from the start. Great backs have a habit of running 3/4 speed while using their eyes and explode into the hole as it opens. Vision is everything.



If Williams holds the edge even then.. Green still can run off this outside shoulder and still have a one on one with the safety along the sideline.. but Williams fails to hold the edge.. forcing Green to break off momentum and start looking for a cutback.. again, I think he should have cut it up and taken what he could get, maybe a small gain. But again, properly blocked the Packers had the numbers and matchups to make that play pop off the edge.. piss poor execution (or very possibly communication in blocking pickups prior to the snap) in blocking that prevented the edge from being obtained.

That is how I see it from these angles.

Edited by user Friday, April 5, 2013 7:40:39 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

The wolves will never lose sleep over the feelings of the sheep.

UserPostedImage
Offline nerdmann  
#23 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 10:08:03 AM(UTC)
nerdmann

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

Posts: 6,535
Joined: 9/14/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 2,108
Applause Received: 474

Green was learning to see those things better as the season went on imo. He was learning from Cedric.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#24 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 12:25:20 PM(UTC)
PackFanWithTwins

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

Posts: 2,650
Joined: 9/26/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 11
Applause Received: 347

Originally Posted by: JustJeff Go to Quoted Post
This is not my work. It is from a member in my home forum. It is the perfect example of how NOT to run a stretch play. Enjoy.





Biggest problem with this play is that is never should have been run against that defensive formation. If that play was to get blocked correctly, it would leave DJ leading for Green at an unblocked FS. The problem is the MLB (#3) is already lined up play side of Saturday who would be responsible for blocking him. There is no way without a major mistake by the MLB, that Saturday or ANY C would be able to beat that MLB to the point of attack.

The result of that is DJ ends up having to block a LB instead of the safety as designed. DJ is not pushing his block outside. The defender is taking DJ outside to block the edge and force the cutback. Crabtree actually does a pretty good job considering his is single blocking a DE. But that DE is able to play off the block to make the play on the cutback.

I can't blame this on the Line or RB. The play was dead before it started. The play should have been checked to something else. The perfect play against it would have been to fake the toss and roll Rodgers out, have Jones come down like he did to block, only release upfield running past the crashing FS. With nobody behind him for help.
The world needs ditch diggers to Danny!!!
UserPostedImage
Offline wpr  
#25 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 12:44:04 PM(UTC)
wpr

Rank: Hall of Famer

United States
Posts: 11,901
Joined: 8/8/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 2,425
Applause Received: 1,204

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Biggest problem with this play is that is never should have been run against that defensive formation. If that play was to get blocked correctly, it would leave DJ leading for Green at an unblocked FS. The problem is the MLB (#3) is already lined up play side of Saturday who would be responsible for blocking him. There is no way without a major mistake by the MLB, that Saturday or ANY C would be able to beat that MLB to the point of attack.

The result of that is DJ ends up having to block a LB instead of the safety as designed. DJ is not pushing his block outside. The defender is taking DJ outside to block the edge and force the cutback. Crabtree actually does a pretty good job considering his is single blocking a DE. But that DE is able to play off the block to make the play on the cutback.

I can't blame this on the Line or RB. The play was dead before it started. The play should have been checked to something else. The perfect play against it would have been to fake the toss and roll Rodgers out, have Jones come down like he did to block, only release upfield running past the crashing FS. With nobody behind him for help.


WHAT!!!??? And be accused of being a stat whore trying to break Favre's records? Weeeee!!

There is no way Aaron Rodgers is falling for that trap. Not talking
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



UserPostedImage

thanks Post received 2 applause.
DoddPower on 4/5/2013(UTC), PackFanWithTwins on 4/5/2013(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#26 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 2:36:35 PM(UTC)
nerdmann

Rank: Super Bowl MVP

Posts: 6,535
Joined: 9/14/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 2,108
Applause Received: 474

Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
WHAT!!!??? And be accused of being a stat whore trying to break Favre's records? Weeeee!!

There is no way Aaron Rodgers is falling for that trap. Not talking


Run it to the other side. Or dump it off for less than 20 yards.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Online texaspackerbacker  
#27 Posted : Friday, April 5, 2013 4:07:33 PM(UTC)
texaspackerbacker

Rank: 1st Round Draft Pick

United States
Posts: 2,386
Joined: 3/4/2013(UTC)
Location: Texas

Applause Given: 351
Applause Received: 210

It doesn't seem like the safety is crashing until the hand off has been made. I lean toward the idea that the failure is mainly Williams in not getting the outside seal. Green would have had a better shot if Williams had set up one step farther out and that LB cuts inside him. I don't think the play was designed for Williams to take the safety. The LB is the most immediate threat, and if Williams doesn't take him, there is nobody else remotely in position. A center younger and faster than Saturday would have gotten around the corner in time and then you have the long gain - assuming the playside corner who you can't see doesn't come over and stop it.

The fault here is the whole ZBS scheme which relies on about 8 things happening to perfection for a play to work, and then only if nobody on the D makes and above average play. I wish we just had road graders in there who could at least get the runners to the second level, and be better pass blockers also.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
dfosterf on 4/14/2013(UTC)
Offline dfosterf  
#28 Posted : Sunday, April 14, 2013 8:38:06 PM(UTC)
dfosterf

Rank: All Pro

United States
Posts: 5,754
Joined: 8/19/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 159
Applause Received: 337

Graders. Real graders. Yes, that.

Can you believe these guys were upset when James Jones commented upon them?

As a unit, they should have been apologetic.

THAT's the kind of shit I hate nowadays.

Colledge SUCKED, btw.

Edited by user Sunday, April 14, 2013 9:08:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

UserPostedImage
damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



Offline PackerTraxx  
#29 Posted : Monday, April 15, 2013 7:32:12 AM(UTC)
PackerTraxx

Rank: 2nd Round Draft Pick

Posts: 1,783
Joined: 8/13/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 18
Applause Received: 127

I lean to the graders also. Mainly because of the field we play on, grass(sort of) and cold climate. On the other hand the Super Bowl is warm climate usually on turf, so speed and a fast game can have an advantage.
Why is Jerry Kramer not in the Hall of Fame?
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages<12
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF 2.1.0 | YAF © 2003-2014, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.339 seconds.