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Offline play2win  
#16 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 10:34:29 AM(UTC)

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Breno Giacomini would have been good to keep around. I do not understand how they could let a guy like that walk. He is exactly what we could use now. Started all 16 games at RT last year for the Seahawks. We could be switching Bulaga to LT and save a pick there.
Offline wpr  
#17 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 10:44:03 AM(UTC)

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steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
Except that isn't how it works and no you wouldn't be content with that anyways. Look at all of the people who are discontent now because we haven't won the Superbowl in just 2 years. The teams that have the best chance at winning the Superbowl are the ones that are more consistent with their roster and stay competitive year after year. It does take a lot of luck to get through a playoff run and win the Superbowl and trying to bet it all on 1 season every few years is the dumbest way to go about it.


Thank you for telling me how I feel. Until reading this I did not know. [palm]

I am content. Would I like a SB this year? Sure. Who wouldn't? Do I demand it or think that the team is a failure? No. Am I disappointed at the lack of effort to pick up QUALITY FAs to fill some of those needs? Sure I am.

Of course my "5 year plan" doesn't work exactly as I illustrated. It is only a hypothetical example. They need to go get the guys required to fill the gaps are there and stop trying to use bubble gum and duct tape. Waiting 2, 3 or 4 years for someone to grow up and fill a position only leads to more holes elsewhere during that time period.

Once again you totally miss the point. I am not saying go "Phillie" and grab 12 high priced FAs this year then sit back and dismantle the team next year. I said pick up a QUALITY player or two to fill a gap. (every team has them.) Become a playoff winning caliber team not a team that only wins against weak competition during the season then folds when the pressure is on. In my example I am saying if the worse case scenario is that you end up with 4 off years and one SB winning championship year and that cycle repeats every 5 years WITH CHAMPIONSHIPS the fans would except it. even you. In reality why would a team totally fall apart? It wouldn't.
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play2win on 4/25/2013(UTC), Wade on 4/25/2013(UTC)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#18 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:25:19 AM(UTC)

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wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
I said pick up a QUALITY player or two to fill a gap. (every team has them.)


Problem with that is the Packers aren't a player or two away from being a certain Super Bowl contender. They can't afford to gamble over paying for tier 2 talent with a tier 1 salary because they have quite a few players to re-sign themselves. It's easier to groom a new to NFL player to your methods and teachings than it is to grab a player that's been in a different system for X years. You then have to break them of their habits.

I don't think free agency yields enough reward for the risk.

Offline play2win  
#19 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:35:02 AM(UTC)

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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Problem with that is the Packers aren't a player or two away from being a certain Super Bowl contender. They can't afford to gamble over paying for tier 2 talent with a tier 1 salary because they have quite a few players to re-sign themselves. It's easier to groom a new to NFL player to your methods and teachings than it is to grab a player that's been in a different system for X years. You then have to break them of their habits.

I don't think free agency yields enough reward for the risk.



I don't think he is saying they are only one or two players away from winning a Championship, just that one or two FAs of high quality can help you to get there, taking pressure off of key areas that you normally fill with draft picks. For instance, we had a couple of scenarios where we had high calibre DTs, DEs, RBs and Ss looking for a new team this offseason. We didn't really play, so they went elsewhere. I would have loved to get one of them, maybe two of them, to allow a bit more freedom this draft, insuring our roster was truly complete.

We have so many holes, some bigger than others at some real need positions on this roster. One or two FA signings could have helped. They still may.
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wpr on 4/25/2013(UTC)
Offline Wade  
#20 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:44:16 AM(UTC)

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play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
Breno Giacomini would have been good to keep around. I do not understand how they could let a guy like that walk. He is exactly what we could use now. Started all 16 games at RT last year for the Seahawks. We could be switching Bulaga to LT and save a pick there.


Methinks you may be committing the Daryl Colledge fallacy here. Colledge has started how many games in his career. How many games has he looked, for GB or for St. Louis, like a *good* starter.

Seattle looked good last year. How good did Giacomini look? Did he look more like Daryn Colledge in his "prime," or did he look more like, oh, I dunno, Steve Hutchinson or Alan Faneca in theirs.

Or, perhaps a better example, how much did he look like a Sitton and how much did he look like Colledge?

(As an aside, I don't think Bulaga has proved himself an exception to the general level of mediocrity in the Thompson/McCarthy/Campen era just yet. He might. The "potential" argument still has enough oomph it it for me to be cautiously optimistic. But he's not where we need a RT, much less a LT, to be just yet.)

Offline play2win  
#21 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:57:09 AM(UTC)

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Bulaga is a great RT. No question. It is really too bad he injured his hip, but I think he'll return to play well again there. I think he's a top rated OT, somewhere in the top 10 in the NFL. I know Giacomini isn't in the top 20. However, he would have been a decent backup to hang onto. Is Giacomini better than Don Barclay? I don't know. I didn't mean to sound like Giacomini was the second coming... my bad Wade!
Offline Zero2Cool  
#22 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:59:01 AM(UTC)

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play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't think he is saying they are only one or two players away from winning a Championship, just that one or two FAs of high quality can help you to get there, taking pressure off of key areas that you normally fill with draft picks. For instance, we had a couple of scenarios where we had high calibre DTs, DEs, RBs and Ss looking for a new team this offseason. We didn't really play, so they went elsewhere. I would have loved to get one of them, maybe two of them, to allow a bit more freedom this draft, insuring our roster was truly complete.

We have so many holes, some bigger than others at some real need positions on this roster. One or two FA signings could have helped. They still may.


What free agent fits the Packers scheme and signed for a price that fits in the Packers salary cap? I'm all for improving the roster. I just don't see any players that could have been signed that would have made a different without overpaying them more than I feel players already are.
Offline play2win  
#23 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 12:21:48 PM(UTC)

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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
What free agent fits the Packers scheme and signed for a price that fits in the Packers salary cap? I'm all for improving the roster. I just don't see any players that could have been signed that would have made a different without overpaying them more than I feel players already are.


I think Steven Jackson was a bargain compared to Brad Jones. I think SJax will be a force with ATL this year, and so does ATL. Cullen Jenkns fit our needs perfectly and we didn't even offer... Osi Umenyiora would have made a difference, two years at $8.5M (that's in the Brad Jones ballpark, remarkably). Alan Branch was SUPER affordable as a rotation NT for $3M. Marcus Spears, a perfect fit for our scheme at $3.5M. Somehow the Ravens didn't stop at Spears, but also signed Chris Canty, the same Chris Canty who couldn't pass our physical, at less than $3M per year. I wonder about that...

Pick any two of these players, and our roster is better. Pre draft.

Hmmm, Brad Jones or Osi Umenyiora...? But, but, Brad Jones falls under the "Draft & Develop" umbrella.

I don't know Zero2Cool. The policy, and it sure seems like a hard line policy, seems just too strict for my liking. In building out a roster, there ought to be balance, and this is one area where I think we have little. our team is ALWAYS so damn young. That inexperience can provide for costly mistakes. Some of these mistakes we cannot afford during Rodgers' prime. We shouldn't allow ourselves to afford that during Rodgers' prime. We should maximize our opportunities. Sprinkle a couple of quality vets in there. It wouldn't hurt.
Online nerdmann  
#24 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 12:29:57 PM(UTC)

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I DO believe we are 1 or 2 players from the Superbowl. In fact, if we didn't go out of our way to shit ourselves in the playoffs I'd have liked our chances the last two years.

That said, I DON'T want Ted to splurge on big named free agents. Fuck that shit.
Offline play2win  
#25 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 12:31:32 PM(UTC)

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nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
I DO believe we are 1 or 2 players from the Superbowl. In fact, if we didn't go out of our way to shit ourselves in the playoffs I'd have liked our chances the last two years.

That said, I DON'T want Ted to splurge on big named free agents. Fuck that shit.


But, it's OK to splurge on Brad Fucking Jones?
Offline Zero2Cool  
#26 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 12:32:40 PM(UTC)

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play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
I think Steven Jackson was a bargain compared to Brad Jones. I think SJax will be a force with ATL this year, and so does ATL. Cullen Jenkns fit our needs perfectly and we didn't even offer... Osi Umenyiora would have made a difference, two years at $8.5M (that's in the Brad Jones ballpark, remarkably). Alan Branch was SUPER affordable as a rotation NT for $3M. Marcus Spears, a perfect fit for our scheme at $3.5M. Somehow the Ravens didn't stop at Spears, but also signed Chris Canty, the same Chris Canty who couldn't pass our physical, at less than $3M per year. I wonder about that...

Pick any two of these players, and our roster is better. Pre draft.

Hmmm, Brad Jones or Osi Umenyiora...? But, but, Brad Jones falls under the "Draft & Develop" umbrella.

I don't know Zero2Cool. The policy, and it sure seems like a hard line policy, seems just too strict for my liking. In building out a roster, there ought to be balance, and this is one area where I think we have little. our team is ALWAYS so damn young. That inexperience can provide for costly mistakes. Some of these mistakes we cannot afford during Rodgers' prime. We shouldn't allow ourselves to afford that during Rodgers' prime. We should maximize our opportunities. Sprinkle a couple of quality vets in there. It wouldn't hurt.


Fucking 503 error ... again.


Steven Jackson is not even worth mentioning because he wanted to be a Falcon, or would retire. Regardless, he was NOT worth his contract to the Packers.

Osi Umenyiora played DE in a 4 -3 and I believe went to a team where he will again play in a 4 - 3 with the Falcons. Remember Aaron Kampman? He couldn't make the transition, I'm not saying he'd fail because Kampman, I'm just saying it's not as easy as plug and play.
Offline Dulak  
#27 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 12:57:48 PM(UTC)

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PackerTraxx said: Go to Quoted Post
It means you better have good coaches. :-s oSmile


lol - how long have we had our Oline coach? ...
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Offline steveishere  
#28 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 1:03:50 PM(UTC)

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play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
But, it's OK to splurge on Brad Fucking Jones?


Brad Jones played a hell of a lot better than Osi Umenyiora did last year and actually fits into a 3-4 scheme. So yeah in that example it's a lot better idea.
Offline play2win  
#29 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 1:31:36 PM(UTC)

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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Fucking 503 error ... again.


Steven Jackson is not even worth mentioning because he wanted to be a Falcon, or would retire. Regardless, he was NOT worth his contract to the Packers.

Osi Umenyiora played DE in a 4 -3 and I believe went to a team where he will again play in a 4 - 3 with the Falcons. Remember Aaron Kampman? He couldn't make the transition, I'm not saying he'd fail because Kampman, I'm just saying it's not as easy as plug and play.


I guess the point is, Alan Branch and Marcus Spears may have been huge signings before entering this draft. They both fit the scheme and were affordable. Adding those two players to our roster may have afforded us a bit more flexibility in this weekend's draft, with two bases covered. Clearly, we looked to Steven Jackson to be a weaker team than ATL, with less of a chance of winning the SB. Why?

We don't add marquee talent. We just don't. We draft and we draft, and we wait for some of these players to develop into marquee talent. The only players not named Rodgers and Matthews who have turned out to be so are just a handful. Jordy Nelson. Tramon Williams. Josh Sitton. Anybody else? I mean, a top player in the NFL at his position still with this team? Randall Cobb certainly has potential, as does Finley, Raji, Shields and Hayward. But they are not there yet, and for some, it has been many years with this team.

Brad Jones re-signing with GB is a potential-based signing. The guy did OK last season. He did not come close to burning the house down in any respect playing ILB. 2 sacks. 1 FF. 4 PDs. Measure him against our competition. How is re-signing him making us a better team, at nearly $4M per season? We could have added one of the aforementioned FAs, and paid half the salary of the other for that. This is where I think the "develop" part of the equation goes south. When we overpay, simply because we drafted them. Finley is another prime example.

I wish Draft & Develop = Performance & Reward, with more consistency. If we are not getting the performance from the players, but they are rewarded with outrageous salaries, that, to me, is a problem. It is no different from playing in FA on a high salary player and losing. Seems the percentages of hit vs. miss are very close, both in drafted players and in FA players.

We eliminate one avenue for adding talent to our team entirely, holding so close to draft & develop. And, I think that adversely affects how we draft, and our chances at -ultimate- success. We really blew it in 2011. I hope that doesn't happen again, and look for us to have an incredible draft over these next few days. We're going to need every bit of it.
Offline play2win  
#30 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 1:33:41 PM(UTC)

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steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
Brad Jones played a hell of a lot better than Osi Umenyiora did last year and actually fits into a 3-4 scheme. So yeah in that example it's a lot better idea.


Well, I do know that 2 sacks are not better than 6...
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