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Offline Zero2Cool  
#26 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 12:32:40 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I think Steven Jackson was a bargain compared to Brad Jones. I think SJax will be a force with ATL this year, and so does ATL. Cullen Jenkns fit our needs perfectly and we didn't even offer... Osi Umenyiora would have made a difference, two years at $8.5M (that's in the Brad Jones ballpark, remarkably). Alan Branch was SUPER affordable as a rotation NT for $3M. Marcus Spears, a perfect fit for our scheme at $3.5M. Somehow the Ravens didn't stop at Spears, but also signed Chris Canty, the same Chris Canty who couldn't pass our physical, at less than $3M per year. I wonder about that...

Pick any two of these players, and our roster is better. Pre draft.

Hmmm, Brad Jones or Osi Umenyiora...? But, but, Brad Jones falls under the "Draft & Develop" umbrella.

I don't know Zero2Cool. The policy, and it sure seems like a hard line policy, seems just too strict for my liking. In building out a roster, there ought to be balance, and this is one area where I think we have little. our team is ALWAYS so damn young. That inexperience can provide for costly mistakes. Some of these mistakes we cannot afford during Rodgers' prime. We shouldn't allow ourselves to afford that during Rodgers' prime. We should maximize our opportunities. Sprinkle a couple of quality vets in there. It wouldn't hurt.


Fucking 503 error ... again.


Steven Jackson is not even worth mentioning because he wanted to be a Falcon, or would retire. Regardless, he was NOT worth his contract to the Packers.

Osi Umenyiora played DE in a 4 -3 and I believe went to a team where he will again play in a 4 - 3 with the Falcons. Remember Aaron Kampman? He couldn't make the transition, I'm not saying he'd fail because Kampman, I'm just saying it's not as easy as plug and play.
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Offline Dulak  
#27 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 12:57:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx Go to Quoted Post
It means you better have good coaches. Eh? Angel


lol - how long have we had our Oline coach? ...
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Zero2Cool on 4/25/2013(UTC)
Offline steveishere  
#28 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 1:03:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
But, it's OK to splurge on Brad Fucking Jones?


Brad Jones played a hell of a lot better than Osi Umenyiora did last year and actually fits into a 3-4 scheme. So yeah in that example it's a lot better idea.
Offline play2win  
#29 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 1:31:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Fucking 503 error ... again.


Steven Jackson is not even worth mentioning because he wanted to be a Falcon, or would retire. Regardless, he was NOT worth his contract to the Packers.

Osi Umenyiora played DE in a 4 -3 and I believe went to a team where he will again play in a 4 - 3 with the Falcons. Remember Aaron Kampman? He couldn't make the transition, I'm not saying he'd fail because Kampman, I'm just saying it's not as easy as plug and play.


I guess the point is, Alan Branch and Marcus Spears may have been huge signings before entering this draft. They both fit the scheme and were affordable. Adding those two players to our roster may have afforded us a bit more flexibility in this weekend's draft, with two bases covered. Clearly, we looked to Steven Jackson to be a weaker team than ATL, with less of a chance of winning the SB. Why?

We don't add marquee talent. We just don't. We draft and we draft, and we wait for some of these players to develop into marquee talent. The only players not named Rodgers and Matthews who have turned out to be so are just a handful. Jordy Nelson. Tramon Williams. Josh Sitton. Anybody else? I mean, a top player in the NFL at his position still with this team? Randall Cobb certainly has potential, as does Finley, Raji, Shields and Hayward. But they are not there yet, and for some, it has been many years with this team.

Brad Jones re-signing with GB is a potential-based signing. The guy did OK last season. He did not come close to burning the house down in any respect playing ILB. 2 sacks. 1 FF. 4 PDs. Measure him against our competition. How is re-signing him making us a better team, at nearly $4M per season? We could have added one of the aforementioned FAs, and paid half the salary of the other for that. This is where I think the "develop" part of the equation goes south. When we overpay, simply because we drafted them. Finley is another prime example.

I wish Draft & Develop = Performance & Reward, with more consistency. If we are not getting the performance from the players, but they are rewarded with outrageous salaries, that, to me, is a problem. It is no different from playing in FA on a high salary player and losing. Seems the percentages of hit vs. miss are very close, both in drafted players and in FA players.

We eliminate one avenue for adding talent to our team entirely, holding so close to draft & develop. And, I think that adversely affects how we draft, and our chances at -ultimate- success. We really blew it in 2011. I hope that doesn't happen again, and look for us to have an incredible draft over these next few days. We're going to need every bit of it.
Offline play2win  
#30 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 1:33:41 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
Brad Jones played a hell of a lot better than Osi Umenyiora did last year and actually fits into a 3-4 scheme. So yeah in that example it's a lot better idea.


Well, I do know that 2 sacks are not better than 6...
Offline Zero2Cool  
#31 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 1:42:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Well, I do know that 2 sacks are not better than 6...


lol nice Apple to Orange comparison there!

I believe a ILB in a 3 - 4 is far less asked to get sacks than a DE in a 4 - 3 :)


As for adding marquee talent, the hell the Packers don't! They certainly do! How do you think they got to Super Bowl? How do you think they ran up a 15 - 1 record? How many playoff appearances in a row?

What the Packers do NOT do is over pay for talent! And being a SMALL MARKET team with NO OWNER to bail them out ... I think it's a wise avenue to take. They have far less margin for error than say the Dallas Cowboys for example.
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Offline wpr  
#32 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 1:44:29 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I don't think he is saying they are only one or two players away from winning a Championship, just that one or two FAs of high quality can help you to get there, taking pressure off of key areas that you normally fill with draft picks. For instance, we had a couple of scenarios where we had high calibre DTs, DEs, RBs and Ss looking for a new team this offseason. We didn't really play, so they went elsewhere. I would have loved to get one of them, maybe two of them, to allow a bit more freedom this draft, insuring our roster was truly complete.

We have so many holes, some bigger than others at some real need positions on this roster. One or two FA signings could have helped. They still may.


since I can only give you one applause point here is a second one.

By all means build through the draft but augment with decent FAs like Woodson and Pickett.
Uncle Teddy has already proven you can get good quality players without busting the bank on them.

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play2win on 4/25/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#33 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 1:47:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
lol nice Apple to Orange comparison there!

I believe a ILB in a 3 - 4 is far less asked to get sacks than a DE in a 4 - 3 :)


You like that bro? I gotta ton of 'em for ya!!! Laughing Laughing Laughing

Yeah, I hear what you are saying, but I think the big cat could have made the 3-4 transition, and might have been a nice addition. You were kind of hoping for that yourself weren't you?

Ah, well. I'm just a fan, and I'm happy to support the team and Ted's vision. I think he could do better, but he is pretty freaking good, as is. We are about to realize how good here with this draft, and the soon to be contract extension for the best QB on the planet.
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Zero2Cool on 4/25/2013(UTC)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#34 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 1:49:18 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool

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and for the record, I am not exactly thrilled with Brad Jones contract, much like I wasn't too thrilled with A.J. Hawk's when he signed it. I don't know what guaranteed money it has though so I can't gripe about it.
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline steveishere  
#35 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 1:52:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Well, I do know that 2 sacks are not better than 6...


It is when comparing an ILB with a full time pass rusher who is surrounded by a ton of talent on the line with him.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#36 Posted : Thursday, April 25, 2013 1:54:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
You like that bro? I gotta ton of 'em for ya!!! Laughing Laughing Laughing

Yeah, I hear what you are saying, but I think the big cat could have made the 3-4 transition, and might have been a nice addition. You were kind of hoping for that yourself weren't you?

Ah, well. I'm just a fan, and I'm happy to support the team and Ted's vision. I think he could do better, but he is pretty freaking good, as is. We are about to realize how good here with this draft, and the soon to be contract extension for the best QB on the planet.


I would love for a pass rusher to fall out of the sky into the Packers lap. Thing is though, Osi (I assume that is 'big cat?') ... he's temperamental and if things aren't going his way, he throws a fit. Also, how is he gonna do with out Jason Pierre-Paul (sp), Justin Tuck, etc ... ? Packers only have Clay Matthews III and MAYBE Nick Perry.

If Osi signed the same contract, but incentive based ... I'd have been cool with that. The guaranteed cash of $5 million makes me less attracted to his addition when thinking he is a DE in a 4 - 3 and Packers would need him to play OLB or DE in a 3 - 4 ... which who knows, maybe he doesn't want to be in a 3 - 4?


There is so much to discuss on these because there are so many variables.
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