Discussion Board
Welcome Guest! You can login or register. Login or Register.

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Zero2Cool  
#1 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 5:48:20 AM(UTC)
DL - Mike Neal, B.J. Raji, Datone Jones
LB - Clay Matthews, A.J. Hawk, Desmond Bishop, Nick Perry

That looks like a stout front seven to me, but I think someone said Raji is actually better at DE?
play2win  
#2 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 6:52:44 AM(UTC)
Yeah, this could change with the addition of another top tier NT.

Johnathan Hankins
Jesse Williams
Jonathan Jenkins
Kawann Short
Brandon Williams
Montori Hughes
Bennie Logan
Kwame Geathers

For sheer bulk, there is Brandon Moore, Jose Jose and TJ Barnes, all of whom can be had later or as UFAs. I find Moore intriguing, at 6-5 320. He did some stuff for Texas, wasn't just a big blob.

Some of these guys are better than others. Some great pass rushers with deficiencies in stopping the run (Williams, Short, Hughes). Some the opposite. I know adding one of these, especially a more complete NT would be super helpful to our D. Maybe Ted trades up to nab the best of the bunch, or close to. Wouldn't hurt with Raji coming in out of shape, looking to clean up on a new deal, with no one behind him on our roster. Picking one of these players above could give him something to think about...

Our front seven is already looking better. Let's keep it rollin'! I can see us adding a NT and a OLB tonight.
all_about_da_packers  
#3 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 7:33:13 AM(UTC)
Stout isn't necessarily the word I'd use. When I think of stout, I think of "Wilson / Raji / Pickett" and their massive bodies.

Neal and Jones are both undersized any way you cut it. With both on the edges, you have much better pass rush options, but I'm definitely worried if Neal and Jones are getting extended playing time in base-packages. Our OLBs (especially Clay) are already dreadful at maintaining gap discipline, and without a beefy front 3 to hold up, a running team (or Vikes with AP) will definitely eat us alive.

I read somewhere (JSOnline?) someone suggesting that a good DE in front of Perry could make Perry look much better than he actually is (I admit I don't think too much of Perry at the moment). If Jones can prove a useful rusher and be the DE in front of Perry, I am excited by the potential of a Neal-Claymaker and Jones-Perry/Moses lineup off the edge. There is definitely some positive stuff to build off of between Neal-Mathews combo that had some success last year.
steveishere  
#4 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 8:41:53 AM(UTC)
all_about_da_packers said: Go to Quoted Post
Stout isn't necessarily the word I'd use. When I think of stout, I think of "Wilson / Raji / Pickett" and their massive bodies.

Neal and Jones are both undersized any way you cut it. With both on the edges, you have much better pass rush options, but I'm definitely worried if Neal and Jones are getting extended playing time in base-packages. Our OLBs (especially Clay) are already dreadful at maintaining gap discipline, and without a beefy front 3 to hold up, a running team (or Vikes with AP) will definitely eat us alive.

I read somewhere (JSOnline?) someone suggesting that a good DE in front of Perry could make Perry look much better than he actually is (I admit I don't think too much of Perry at the moment). If Jones can prove a useful rusher and be the DE in front of Perry, I am excited by the potential of a Neal-Claymaker and Jones-Perry/Moses lineup off the edge. There is definitely some positive stuff to build off of between Neal-Mathews combo that had some success last year.


Nobody gets extended playing time in base packages on this team lol. Either way when you are talking an inch of height or 10 lbs here or there it really means nothing compared to simply can the guy play football. If you get guys who can play football it's not gonna matter whether they have 6-10 more lbs or 1-2 more inches of height. It's not like these guys are 220lbs or something ridiculous.
wpr  
#5 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 8:53:09 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
DL - Mike Neal, B.J. Raji, Datone Jones
LB - Clay Matthews, A.J. Hawk, Desmond Bishop, Nick Perry

That looks like a stout front seven to me, but I think someone said Raji is actually better at DE?


Over the past couple of years I have heard it said that Raji is better at DE and repeated that here.
all_about_da_packers  
#6 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 9:19:53 AM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
Nobody gets extended playing time in base packages on this team lol. Either way when you are talking an inch of height or 10 lbs here or there it really means nothing compared to simply can the guy play football.


Not sure what you mean by "nobody getting extended playing time" because that's not true on some levels. Basic level: Raji and Pickett play extensively in base packages.

Wilson was the 3rd DE, and let us assume he gets injured (which he did for a few weeks last season). Who on the current depth chart replaces Wilson? Neal - the guy who has missed a good chunk of games every season he has been in the league. After that, Mike Daniels - nowhere near the size (it matters!) to play DE.

D. Jones could be looking at playing extended (note: not meaning all the snaps) if things go wrong.

Now why DOES size matter? Because our 3-4 base is predicated on D-linemen eating up blockers. You want to leave the LBs free to go to the ball and make the tackle without meeting resistance (o-linemen) along the way. Jones, at 6'4 - 284 is not going to demand more than 1 blocker. That's a problem you cannot go around.

wpr  
#7 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 9:32:31 AM(UTC)
all_about_da_packers said: Go to Quoted Post
Not sure what you mean by "nobody getting extended playing time" because that's not true on some levels. Basic level: Raji and Pickett play extensively in base packages.

Wilson was the 3rd DE, and let us assume he gets injured (which he did for a few weeks last season). Who on the current depth chart replaces Wilson? Neal - the guy who has missed a good chunk of games every season he has been in the league. After that, Mike Daniels - nowhere near the size (it matters!) to play DE.

D. Jones could be looking at playing extended (note: not meaning all the snaps) if things go wrong.

Now why DOES size matter? Because our 3-4 base is predicated on D-linemen eating up blockers. You want to leave the LBs free to go to the ball and make the tackle without meeting resistance (o-linemen) along the way. Jones, at 6'4 - 284 is not going to demand more than 1 blocker. That's a problem you cannot go around.



I thought Steve jokingly meant that they are in the various sub packages most of the time instead of their base package.. Therefore no one gets playing time in the base because they are "never" in it. thus his "lol".
steveishere  
#8 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 9:41:40 AM(UTC)
all_about_da_packers said: Go to Quoted Post
Not sure what you mean by "nobody getting extended playing time" because that's not true on some levels. Basic level: Raji and Pickett play extensively in base packages.

Wilson was the 3rd DE, and let us assume he gets injured (which he did for a few weeks last season). Who on the current depth chart replaces Wilson? Neal - the guy who has missed a good chunk of games every season he has been in the league. After that, Mike Daniels - nowhere near the size (it matters!) to play DE.

D. Jones could be looking at playing extended (note: not meaning all the snaps) if things go wrong.

Now why DOES size matter? Because our 3-4 base is predicated on D-linemen eating up blockers. You want to leave the LBs free to go to the ball and make the tackle without meeting resistance (o-linemen) along the way. Jones, at 6'4 - 284 is not going to demand more than 1 blocker. That's a problem you cannot go around.



If Jones is a good football player it won't matter if he weighs 290 or 300. Teams aren't just going to look at the sizes of the players and go "oh we need to double team that guy cause he's listed as 10lbs heavier" if there's a slightly smaller guy on the line wrecking people. They are going to block the guy who is tearing people up.
all_about_da_packers  
#9 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 9:59:38 AM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
If Jones is a good football player it won't matter if he weighs 290 or 300. Teams aren't just going to look at the sizes of the players and go "oh we need to double team that guy cause he's listed as 10lbs heavier" if there's a slightly smaller guy on the line wrecking people. They are going to block the guy who is tearing people up.


Ah, that makes sense.

I don't disagree with you; I would prefer however to have more D-linemen that can be used in our base (more "fat" guys) so that we can limit the snaps of guys that are impact players. In other words, I still think our d-line needs to strengthened to make sure we are not expecting our players (Raji or Jones) to play 90% of the snaps for 16 weeks + playoffs.

From that perspective, I was trying to say our D-line is not really stout now that we have added Jones. I'm excited about the pick, for sure, but more big bodies are need on both lines.
play2win  
#10 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 10:36:25 AM(UTC)
all_about_da_packers said: Go to Quoted Post
Not sure what you mean by "nobody getting extended playing time" because that's not true on some levels. Basic level: Raji and Pickett play extensively in base packages.

Wilson was the 3rd DE, and let us assume he gets injured (which he did for a few weeks last season). Who on the current depth chart replaces Wilson? Neal - the guy who has missed a good chunk of games every season he has been in the league. After that, Mike Daniels - nowhere near the size (it matters!) to play DE.

D. Jones could be looking at playing extended (note: not meaning all the snaps) if things go wrong.

Now why DOES size matter? Because our 3-4 base is predicated on D-linemen eating up blockers. You want to leave the LBs free to go to the ball and make the tackle without meeting resistance (o-linemen) along the way. Jones, at 6'4 - 284 is not going to demand more than 1 blocker. That's a problem you cannot go around.



This is exactly why I feel we need 2 DEs out of this draft. Maybe they add a FA DE after the draft. Still some good vets out there.
Gaycandybacon  
#11 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 11:02:18 AM(UTC)
The guy is huge for a 283 pounder. He's got a Justin Smith body, maybe even longer than him. And he's tall. Like others said it doesn't matter what the size is all the time anyways. It's about wheather he can play football. And Datone Jones can play football. Don't deem this pick because he's not 320 pounds. The Raiders have went with Height, Weight, Speed every single draft since I can remember and where has that gotten them? I think Datone can play every down, he can play every position on the Line, maybe even OLB in packages if Perry or Matthews needs a breather. Any team would kill to have Versitility on Defense, 4-3 or 3-4.

Datone and Ziggy Ansah are similar in this aspect. I was really high on these 2 in this draft. I'd watch out for the guy the Lions got. (Ziggy)
nerdmann  
#12 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 11:02:54 AM(UTC)
play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
This is exactly why I feel we need 2 DEs out of this draft. Maybe they add a FA DE after the draft. Still some good vets out there.


Jones will need to bulk up a bit.

I also disagree that Raji is better at DE. He's a prototypical NT.
steveishere  
#13 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 11:53:10 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Jones will need to bulk up a bit.

I also disagree that Raji is better at DE. He's a prototypical NT.


In his build maybe he's prototypical but not ability. He doesn't seem to do too well 2 gapping or even taking on double teams. Raji also played more snaps last year at DE than he did at NT.
nerdmann  
#14 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 12:21:00 PM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
In his build maybe he's prototypical but not ability. He doesn't seem to do too well 2 gapping or even taking on double teams. Raji also played more snaps last year at DE than he did at NT.


Pickett is more of a run stuffer, whereas Raji is more of a penetrator and pass rusher.
buckeyepackfan  
#15 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 1:43:11 PM(UTC)
Big John Hankins!!!!!!

Compared to B.J. Raji, that wuld give The Packers a great rotation.

Hankins at one point was a top 15 pick, he ran aslow 40 which brought down his status a bit.

I can never understand why a 40 time can affect a D-lineman, the only time you see them running that far is to get to dinner table!!!
QCHuskerFan  
#16 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 2:21:53 PM(UTC)
Jones is 1" less and only 12lbs lighter than JJ Watt. I think Watt is starting to become a decent DE in a 3-4...

I would be surprised if Jones couldn't add 10-15 lbs in the next year or so. He'll be fine.

nerdmann  
#17 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 2:25:24 PM(UTC)
QCHuskerFan said: Go to Quoted Post
Jones is 1" less and only 12lbs lighter than JJ Watt. I think Watt is starting to become a decent DE in a 3-4...

I would be surprised if Jones couldn't add 10-15 lbs in the next year or so. He'll be fine.



If and when Jones proves he is as good as JJ Watt I will be thrilled.

Now, let's get some run stuffers.
QCHuskerFan  
#18 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 2:29:31 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
If and when Jones proves he is as good as JJ Watt I will be thrilled.

Now, let's get some run stuffers.


I will be beyond thrilled.

Watt has put on 10 lbs from his playing weight his senior year. I am betting Jones can also.
PackFanWithTwins  
#19 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 2:41:19 PM(UTC)
Y'all need to get past, letters and numbers. DE/DT 283,290,300 It doesn't matter. Look at SF, both DT/DE are smaller than Jones and Neal. NE are about the same, Bal runs bigger. There is not "prototypical" anything in the NFL especially with the 3-4 because of the versatilty of it. If we are playing Peterson, Pickett will see the field more, than when we play the Saints. We are going to have the ability to line up heavy and light depending on matchups.

And if a defense goes after Jones with a double team, think of it as a good thing, because if they do, they cannot double BJ and Clay and Perry also.
nerdmann  
#20 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 3:27:06 PM(UTC)
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
Y'all need to get past, letters and numbers. DE/DT 283,290,300 It doesn't matter. Look at SF, both DT/DE are smaller than Jones and Neal. NE are about the same, Bal runs bigger. There is not "prototypical" anything in the NFL especially with the 3-4 because of the versatilty of it. If we are playing Peterson, Pickett will see the field more, than when we play the Saints. We are going to have the ability to line up heavy and light depending on matchups.

And if a defense goes after Jones with a double team, think of it as a good thing, because if they do, they cannot double BJ and Clay and Perry also.


As I recall Capers says the prototypical 3-4 "end" is 300lbs and tall. You like the NTs heavier and shorter. Datone's got the height, and I think he can put on the weight. I was just taken aback a bit. Dude wasn't even on my board, as I had purposely removed all the 4-3 DE types.

Like I said, if dude can play like JJ Watt, I'll be pleased as punch.
Rss Feed
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error

Fan Shout
wpr (10m) : O no. Sorry to hear this NSD.
Zero2Cool (47m) : Rourke, sorry to hear that, but who doesn't want to help you?
Cheesey (10h) : Oh geez, nonstop. Like was said, we have your back.
TheKanataThrilla (10h) : NSD sorry your post is a bit of a mind fuck, but obviously brother those here have your back.
Nonstopdrivel (10h) : I got the test results back! I definitely have breast cancer.
Nonstopdrivel (10h) : Everything goes wrong at once. Nobody wants to help me, and I'm dying!
Zero2Cool (17h) : Zone defenses always must answer this question: is it better to invest in top CBs, or better to invest in pass rushers who can make a CB’s job easier?
Zero2Cool (17h) : Packers giving away $500 Pro Shop gift card and 11 2018 Official Draft Caps
Zero2Cool (17h) : can't restrict
Zero2Cool (17h) : you did it now
Zero2Cool (17h) : 123456
Zero2Cool (17h) : too bad you gonna cry
Zero2Cool (17h) : don't break it
Zero2Cool (17h) : something here
Zero2Cool (17h) : You can do it too!
Zero2Cool (24-Apr) : Who the hell gives a shit about Sat/Sun now? 3rd to 7th round? F U
Zero2Cool (24-Apr) : I thought Sat/Sun was great. You make a weekend of it. Have buddies over, cookout, etc.
TheKanataThrilla (24-Apr) : During the afternoons I tend to get caught up in family routines. I don't mind that for the later rounds.
TheKanataThrilla (24-Apr) : I now take Friday off work. It is a bit annoying, but I do find it fun at night as I can crack a few beers and enjoy. Sucks if they trade out of the first round though.
wpr (24-Apr) : I liked the Sat Sun version.
beast (23-Apr) : HELL YEAH! ... the draft was SOOOO MUCH BETTER in the ol Saturday/Sunday format... only people that I've heard disagree are those that don't really follow the draft and just random get updates on thei
beast (23-Apr) : Key word there is "proven"... not if they're true, but if you can prove it. Jerry Jones said the same thing for Greg Hardy, it wasn't "proven".
Zero2Cool (23-Apr) : Flat out honesty from 49ers GM
Zero2Cool (23-Apr) : John Lynch: “if these charges are proven true, if Reuben did hit this young lady, he won’t be part of our organization moving forward.”
Smokey (23-Apr) : 49ers / Bye Week / Rams
Zero2Cool (23-Apr) : Brian Gutekunst: “Draft was way better when it was Saturday and Sunday.”
Zero2Cool (23-Apr) : With pick #14, @CFD22 has the @Packers selecting UTSA DE Marcus Davenport.
Porforis (23-Apr) : He'll probably resort to buying and using Chicago Bears tickets.
Smokey (22-Apr) : Restrict Zero's toilet paper !
buckeyepackfan (22-Apr) : You gonna withhold your monthly dues until Zero gets the schedule posted Smokey? Lol
Smokey (22-Apr) : Zero, please post the new 2018 Packers Schedule. Thank You
Smokey (22-Apr) : DRAFT "CHAT" this Thursday night !
gbguy20 (20-Apr) : you're probably right
TheKanataThrilla (19-Apr) : I was thinking Dez gbguy20
gbguy20 (19-Apr) : Bmarsh cut. preparing for obj extension?
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2018 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 9 @ 7:20 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Sep 16 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Sep 23 @ 12:00 PM
Redskins
Sunday, Sep 30 @ 12:00 PM
BILLS
Sunday, Oct 7 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Monday, Oct 15 @ 7:15 PM
49ERS
Sunday, Oct 28 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Nov 4 @ 7:20 PM
Patriots
Sunday, Nov 11 @ 12:00 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Nov 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Sunday, Nov 25 @ 7:20 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Dec 2 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Dec 9 @ 12:00 PM
FALCONS
Sunday, Dec 16 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Dec 23 @ 12:00 PM
Jets
Sunday, Dec 30 @ 12:00 PM
LIONS
Think About It
Think About It
Recent Topics
6m / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

14m / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

46m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Nonstopdrivel

12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Cheesey

16h / Around The NFL / dhazer

16h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Cheesey

16h / Random Babble / Cheesey

24-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

20-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / warhawk

20-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

20-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Cheesey

19-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Cheesey

19-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Cheesey

18-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / sschind

Headlines