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Online Zero2Cool  
#1 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 5:48:20 AM(UTC)
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DL - Mike Neal, B.J. Raji, Datone Jones
LB - Clay Matthews, A.J. Hawk, Desmond Bishop, Nick Perry

That looks like a stout front seven to me, but I think someone said Raji is actually better at DE?
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Offline play2win  
#2 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 6:52:44 AM(UTC)
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Yeah, this could change with the addition of another top tier NT.

Johnathan Hankins
Jesse Williams
Jonathan Jenkins
Kawann Short
Brandon Williams
Montori Hughes
Bennie Logan
Kwame Geathers

For sheer bulk, there is Brandon Moore, Jose Jose and TJ Barnes, all of whom can be had later or as UFAs. I find Moore intriguing, at 6-5 320. He did some stuff for Texas, wasn't just a big blob.

Some of these guys are better than others. Some great pass rushers with deficiencies in stopping the run (Williams, Short, Hughes). Some the opposite. I know adding one of these, especially a more complete NT would be super helpful to our D. Maybe Ted trades up to nab the best of the bunch, or close to. Wouldn't hurt with Raji coming in out of shape, looking to clean up on a new deal, with no one behind him on our roster. Picking one of these players above could give him something to think about...

Our front seven is already looking better. Let's keep it rollin'! I can see us adding a NT and a OLB tonight.
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nerdmann on 4/26/2013(UTC)
Offline all_about_da_packers  
#3 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 7:33:13 AM(UTC)
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Stout isn't necessarily the word I'd use. When I think of stout, I think of "Wilson / Raji / Pickett" and their massive bodies.

Neal and Jones are both undersized any way you cut it. With both on the edges, you have much better pass rush options, but I'm definitely worried if Neal and Jones are getting extended playing time in base-packages. Our OLBs (especially Clay) are already dreadful at maintaining gap discipline, and without a beefy front 3 to hold up, a running team (or Vikes with AP) will definitely eat us alive.

I read somewhere (JSOnline?) someone suggesting that a good DE in front of Perry could make Perry look much better than he actually is (I admit I don't think too much of Perry at the moment). If Jones can prove a useful rusher and be the DE in front of Perry, I am excited by the potential of a Neal-Claymaker and Jones-Perry/Moses lineup off the edge. There is definitely some positive stuff to build off of between Neal-Mathews combo that had some success last year.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
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nerdmann on 4/26/2013(UTC)
Offline steveishere  
#4 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 8:41:53 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers Go to Quoted Post
Stout isn't necessarily the word I'd use. When I think of stout, I think of "Wilson / Raji / Pickett" and their massive bodies.

Neal and Jones are both undersized any way you cut it. With both on the edges, you have much better pass rush options, but I'm definitely worried if Neal and Jones are getting extended playing time in base-packages. Our OLBs (especially Clay) are already dreadful at maintaining gap discipline, and without a beefy front 3 to hold up, a running team (or Vikes with AP) will definitely eat us alive.

I read somewhere (JSOnline?) someone suggesting that a good DE in front of Perry could make Perry look much better than he actually is (I admit I don't think too much of Perry at the moment). If Jones can prove a useful rusher and be the DE in front of Perry, I am excited by the potential of a Neal-Claymaker and Jones-Perry/Moses lineup off the edge. There is definitely some positive stuff to build off of between Neal-Mathews combo that had some success last year.


Nobody gets extended playing time in base packages on this team lol. Either way when you are talking an inch of height or 10 lbs here or there it really means nothing compared to simply can the guy play football. If you get guys who can play football it's not gonna matter whether they have 6-10 more lbs or 1-2 more inches of height. It's not like these guys are 220lbs or something ridiculous.
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play2win on 4/26/2013(UTC)
Online wpr  
#5 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 8:53:09 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
DL - Mike Neal, B.J. Raji, Datone Jones
LB - Clay Matthews, A.J. Hawk, Desmond Bishop, Nick Perry

That looks like a stout front seven to me, but I think someone said Raji is actually better at DE?


Over the past couple of years I have heard it said that Raji is better at DE and repeated that here.
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Offline all_about_da_packers  
#6 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 9:19:53 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
Nobody gets extended playing time in base packages on this team lol. Either way when you are talking an inch of height or 10 lbs here or there it really means nothing compared to simply can the guy play football.


Not sure what you mean by "nobody getting extended playing time" because that's not true on some levels. Basic level: Raji and Pickett play extensively in base packages.

Wilson was the 3rd DE, and let us assume he gets injured (which he did for a few weeks last season). Who on the current depth chart replaces Wilson? Neal - the guy who has missed a good chunk of games every season he has been in the league. After that, Mike Daniels - nowhere near the size (it matters!) to play DE.

D. Jones could be looking at playing extended (note: not meaning all the snaps) if things go wrong.

Now why DOES size matter? Because our 3-4 base is predicated on D-linemen eating up blockers. You want to leave the LBs free to go to the ball and make the tackle without meeting resistance (o-linemen) along the way. Jones, at 6'4 - 284 is not going to demand more than 1 blocker. That's a problem you cannot go around.

The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Online wpr  
#7 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 9:32:31 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers Go to Quoted Post
Not sure what you mean by "nobody getting extended playing time" because that's not true on some levels. Basic level: Raji and Pickett play extensively in base packages.

Wilson was the 3rd DE, and let us assume he gets injured (which he did for a few weeks last season). Who on the current depth chart replaces Wilson? Neal - the guy who has missed a good chunk of games every season he has been in the league. After that, Mike Daniels - nowhere near the size (it matters!) to play DE.

D. Jones could be looking at playing extended (note: not meaning all the snaps) if things go wrong.

Now why DOES size matter? Because our 3-4 base is predicated on D-linemen eating up blockers. You want to leave the LBs free to go to the ball and make the tackle without meeting resistance (o-linemen) along the way. Jones, at 6'4 - 284 is not going to demand more than 1 blocker. That's a problem you cannot go around.



I thought Steve jokingly meant that they are in the various sub packages most of the time instead of their base package.. Therefore no one gets playing time in the base because they are "never" in it. thus his "lol".
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Zero2Cool on 4/26/2013(UTC)
Offline steveishere  
#8 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 9:41:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers Go to Quoted Post
Not sure what you mean by "nobody getting extended playing time" because that's not true on some levels. Basic level: Raji and Pickett play extensively in base packages.

Wilson was the 3rd DE, and let us assume he gets injured (which he did for a few weeks last season). Who on the current depth chart replaces Wilson? Neal - the guy who has missed a good chunk of games every season he has been in the league. After that, Mike Daniels - nowhere near the size (it matters!) to play DE.

D. Jones could be looking at playing extended (note: not meaning all the snaps) if things go wrong.

Now why DOES size matter? Because our 3-4 base is predicated on D-linemen eating up blockers. You want to leave the LBs free to go to the ball and make the tackle without meeting resistance (o-linemen) along the way. Jones, at 6'4 - 284 is not going to demand more than 1 blocker. That's a problem you cannot go around.



If Jones is a good football player it won't matter if he weighs 290 or 300. Teams aren't just going to look at the sizes of the players and go "oh we need to double team that guy cause he's listed as 10lbs heavier" if there's a slightly smaller guy on the line wrecking people. They are going to block the guy who is tearing people up.
Offline all_about_da_packers  
#9 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 9:59:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
If Jones is a good football player it won't matter if he weighs 290 or 300. Teams aren't just going to look at the sizes of the players and go "oh we need to double team that guy cause he's listed as 10lbs heavier" if there's a slightly smaller guy on the line wrecking people. They are going to block the guy who is tearing people up.


Ah, that makes sense.

I don't disagree with you; I would prefer however to have more D-linemen that can be used in our base (more "fat" guys) so that we can limit the snaps of guys that are impact players. In other words, I still think our d-line needs to strengthened to make sure we are not expecting our players (Raji or Jones) to play 90% of the snaps for 16 weeks + playoffs.

From that perspective, I was trying to say our D-line is not really stout now that we have added Jones. I'm excited about the pick, for sure, but more big bodies are need on both lines.
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Offline play2win  
#10 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 10:36:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers Go to Quoted Post
Not sure what you mean by "nobody getting extended playing time" because that's not true on some levels. Basic level: Raji and Pickett play extensively in base packages.

Wilson was the 3rd DE, and let us assume he gets injured (which he did for a few weeks last season). Who on the current depth chart replaces Wilson? Neal - the guy who has missed a good chunk of games every season he has been in the league. After that, Mike Daniels - nowhere near the size (it matters!) to play DE.

D. Jones could be looking at playing extended (note: not meaning all the snaps) if things go wrong.

Now why DOES size matter? Because our 3-4 base is predicated on D-linemen eating up blockers. You want to leave the LBs free to go to the ball and make the tackle without meeting resistance (o-linemen) along the way. Jones, at 6'4 - 284 is not going to demand more than 1 blocker. That's a problem you cannot go around.



This is exactly why I feel we need 2 DEs out of this draft. Maybe they add a FA DE after the draft. Still some good vets out there.
Offline Gaycandybacon  
#11 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 11:02:18 AM(UTC)
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The guy is huge for a 283 pounder. He's got a Justin Smith body, maybe even longer than him. And he's tall. Like others said it doesn't matter what the size is all the time anyways. It's about wheather he can play football. And Datone Jones can play football. Don't deem this pick because he's not 320 pounds. The Raiders have went with Height, Weight, Speed every single draft since I can remember and where has that gotten them? I think Datone can play every down, he can play every position on the Line, maybe even OLB in packages if Perry or Matthews needs a breather. Any team would kill to have Versitility on Defense, 4-3 or 3-4.

Datone and Ziggy Ansah are similar in this aspect. I was really high on these 2 in this draft. I'd watch out for the guy the Lions got. (Ziggy)
Offline nerdmann  
#12 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 11:02:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
This is exactly why I feel we need 2 DEs out of this draft. Maybe they add a FA DE after the draft. Still some good vets out there.


Jones will need to bulk up a bit.

I also disagree that Raji is better at DE. He's a prototypical NT.
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Offline steveishere  
#13 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 11:53:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
Jones will need to bulk up a bit.

I also disagree that Raji is better at DE. He's a prototypical NT.


In his build maybe he's prototypical but not ability. He doesn't seem to do too well 2 gapping or even taking on double teams. Raji also played more snaps last year at DE than he did at NT.
Offline nerdmann  
#14 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 12:21:00 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
In his build maybe he's prototypical but not ability. He doesn't seem to do too well 2 gapping or even taking on double teams. Raji also played more snaps last year at DE than he did at NT.


Pickett is more of a run stuffer, whereas Raji is more of a penetrator and pass rusher.
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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#15 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 1:43:11 PM(UTC)
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Big John Hankins!!!!!!

Compared to B.J. Raji, that wuld give The Packers a great rotation.

Hankins at one point was a top 15 pick, he ran aslow 40 which brought down his status a bit.

I can never understand why a 40 time can affect a D-lineman, the only time you see them running that far is to get to dinner table!!!
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QCHuskerFan on 4/26/2013(UTC), GermanGilbert on 4/26/2013(UTC)
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#16 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 2:21:53 PM(UTC)
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Jones is 1" less and only 12lbs lighter than JJ Watt. I think Watt is starting to become a decent DE in a 3-4...

I would be surprised if Jones couldn't add 10-15 lbs in the next year or so. He'll be fine.

Offline nerdmann  
#17 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 2:25:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
Jones is 1" less and only 12lbs lighter than JJ Watt. I think Watt is starting to become a decent DE in a 3-4...

I would be surprised if Jones couldn't add 10-15 lbs in the next year or so. He'll be fine.



If and when Jones proves he is as good as JJ Watt I will be thrilled.

Now, let's get some run stuffers.
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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#18 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 2:29:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
If and when Jones proves he is as good as JJ Watt I will be thrilled.

Now, let's get some run stuffers.


I will be beyond thrilled.

Watt has put on 10 lbs from his playing weight his senior year. I am betting Jones can also.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#19 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 2:41:19 PM(UTC)
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Y'all need to get past, letters and numbers. DE/DT 283,290,300 It doesn't matter. Look at SF, both DT/DE are smaller than Jones and Neal. NE are about the same, Bal runs bigger. There is not "prototypical" anything in the NFL especially with the 3-4 because of the versatilty of it. If we are playing Peterson, Pickett will see the field more, than when we play the Saints. We are going to have the ability to line up heavy and light depending on matchups.

And if a defense goes after Jones with a double team, think of it as a good thing, because if they do, they cannot double BJ and Clay and Perry also.
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Gaycandybacon on 4/26/2013(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#20 Posted : Friday, April 26, 2013 3:27:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Y'all need to get past, letters and numbers. DE/DT 283,290,300 It doesn't matter. Look at SF, both DT/DE are smaller than Jones and Neal. NE are about the same, Bal runs bigger. There is not "prototypical" anything in the NFL especially with the 3-4 because of the versatilty of it. If we are playing Peterson, Pickett will see the field more, than when we play the Saints. We are going to have the ability to line up heavy and light depending on matchups.

And if a defense goes after Jones with a double team, think of it as a good thing, because if they do, they cannot double BJ and Clay and Perry also.


As I recall Capers says the prototypical 3-4 "end" is 300lbs and tall. You like the NTs heavier and shorter. Datone's got the height, and I think he can put on the weight. I was just taken aback a bit. Dude wasn't even on my board, as I had purposely removed all the 4-3 DE types.

Like I said, if dude can play like JJ Watt, I'll be pleased as punch.
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