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jdlax  
#41 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 3:08:41 AM(UTC)
When we were younger, I remember riding with my brother in the backseat of our minivan. Being older, I'm kinda bugging him, giving him a hard time about something. He calls me a dick. I ask him if he knows how to spell it. D-A-K, he says. Isn't that funny, NodakPaul?

:D

Sorry for that, all.
NodakPaul  
#42 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:55:38 AM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post

It's no coincidence that the teams hoisting the big trophy at the end all chuck it pretty damn good.


Yeah, like Brad Johnson when he won with Tampa Bay. Oh wait no... I must have been thinking about Trent Dilfer with the Ravens. No wait, that's not it either... Let's see, the Bears made it to the big game because Grossman played so... good?

Well Manning is great... but for some reason he only has one ring - and that was against the Bears. Fav-re was pretty damn good, but when was the last time he got a ring? The Pats broke Minnesota's record for most points scored in a single season last year. Coincidently neither team got a ring when they did so.

History is riddled with teams who are successful with a great defense but average offense. Having a great passing game is NOT the sole way to a SB birth.


Wait a second. This isn't the first time I've heard a Viking fan compare their team to those teams but that defense isn't on the level of Baltimore's or Tampa Bay's from those Super Bowl years. Their defensive line maybe but Derrick Brooks or Ray Lewis isn't there.

Tampa Bay had a nice passing game the year they won the Super Bowl. Johnson threw for over 3,000 yards and 22 touchdowns. Also only 6 picks when I looked it up which is amazing. Keyshaun Johnson was a pretty good receiver too something Minnesota really doesn't have.

You strike me as someone who is a realist. Do you think that defense can be like the Ravens? If not then do you think Jackson can have a season like Brad Johnson?

For Minnesota to win the Super Bowl I think one of those things need to happen.


Honestly, I think that the Minnesota Defense, while good, isn't on par with the Ravens or TB from the SB days. Nor do I have much faith in TJack. I agree that one of those two things needs to happen for Minnesota to make the super bowl. Is it possible? Sure. But I am not booking my hotel in Tampa just yet...

However, this thread isn't about whether or not I think the Vikings will make the super bowl. It is about how Minnesota matches up against Green Bay in week 1. And I don't think that the passing game will be strong for either team. The Vikings have a better line, and a very, very good 2nd receiver in Rice, but their QB and overall WR corps are unproven right now. The Packers have a better WR corps and probably a better QB, but an OL that is going to be dominated by the Vikings DL all game long. I stand by my earlier prediction that the running game will be the difference in week 1, and to that I give Minnesota the edge.
NodakPaul  
#43 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:59:50 AM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
When we were younger, I remember riding with my brother in the backseat of our minivan. Being older, I'm kinda bugging him, giving him a hard time about something. He calls me a dick. I ask him if he knows how to spell it. D-A-K, he says. Isn't that funny, NodakPaul?

:D

Sorry for that, all.


I would reply about the WI education system, the inability of cheeseheads to spell, and the fact that I am secure enough in my manhood to laugh off dick jokes.

But since there is no smack here, I won't. :D
warhawk  
#44 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 11:53:16 AM(UTC)
Well Nodak, predictions are fine and all but we will still be starting basically the same group we had in there last year so to say now your line will dominate all game long is a stretch for me. I mean one guy we may be missing is a rookie and there has been talk that Spitz may very well be better at center than Wells anyhow. The one time we did have trouble in the line in pre-season Wells had come back in there to start and hadn't had enough work with the first group. Last week, without him, they protected just fine.

If you had improved CB and Safety personnel I would give your optimism more support. But I have seen too many times where a team brings in a big time FA and expects the world and it does not happen.

I mean Allen can't go out and guard DD or Jennings on a quick slant and to date neither can anybody else they have out there. Don't count on him to run over what amounts to a near All-Pro tackle either. Our guy got the best of him in last years matchup as well so when we talk real time experience there is no proof you can "dominate" all game long.

Where is it that the Vikes pass protection has now all of a sudden gotten so good the Pack can expect no success there and your line will dominate in that area as well? McCarthy is not stupid. He's going to load up on AP and then send the horses after TJack and if you don't think they can get after him I believe your mistaken.
zombieslayer  
#45 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:17:18 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post


Yeah, like Brad Johnson when he won with Tampa Bay. Oh wait no... I must have been thinking about Trent Dilfer with the Ravens. No wait, that's not it either... Let's see, the Bears made it to the big game because Grossman played so... good?

Well Manning is great... but for some reason he only has one ring - and that was against the Bears. Fav-re was pretty damn good, but when was the last time he got a ring? The Pats broke Minnesota's record for most points scored in a single season last year. Coincidently neither team got a ring when they did so.

History is riddled with teams who are successful with a great defense but average offense. Having a great passing game is NOT the sole way to a SB birth.


I'll actually defend Brad Johnson. He's a quite capable QB. He doesn't turn the ball over and completes passes. Nothing exciting, nothing to write home about, but he gets the job done.

da Bears lost the SB because they couldn't throw. Wrecks Grossman panicked and lost them the game. Well, actually, his dumb ass coach should have pulled him out, but he was too stupid.

Back to Brad Johnson, take a look at his all-time stats. They're a lot nice than people realize. He was a capable QB. Pro Bowl in '99 and '02. 164 TDs vs 117 INTs. 28k+ yards. 83.1 rating. Like I said, nothing exciting, but pretty capable. The guy got the job done. I don't know why people dog the guy.
zombieslayer  
#46 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:20:32 PM(UTC)
Now, in defense of Nodak, a passing D can be greatly improved with the same secondary, but with an improved pass rush. The Giants secondary was not really that good. They were average. Nothing spectacular.

Now, what did they do? They knocked off 3 of the 4 top passing teams to win the SB. How did they do that? With a pass rush.

You can NOT throw the ball when you're on your back and the referee has blown the whistle. Sacks, pressures, hurries. The Giants were good at that. Got in your face. Made you get the ball off. Made you panic. Made you do something you'd later regret. It was their strength.

The Vikings are hoping they can do the same thing. If they can, they'll go farther than us Packer fans would like them to. That's the big if.
bozz_2006  
#47 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:39:33 PM(UTC)
Vikings pass D wasn't anything special last season, and while they added a great pass rusher, we'll have to wait and see what his effect will be. Judging by preseason, Allen will get his sacks, but i don't think he'll have the ripple effect on the rest of the team as the Vikings were hoping for.
pack_in_black  
#48 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:56:59 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
When we were younger, I remember riding with my brother in the backseat of our minivan. Being older, I'm kinda bugging him, giving him a hard time about something. He calls me a dick. I ask him if he knows how to spell it. D-A-K, he says. Isn't that funny, NodakPaul?

:D

Sorry for that, all.


I would reply about the WI education system, the inability of cheeseheads to spell, and the fact that I am secure enough in my manhood to laugh off dick jokes.

But since there is no smack here, I won't. :D



Well played, Mr. Paul. Well played, indeed. +1

:thumbright:
pack_in_black  
#49 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 2:05:44 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Vikings pass D wasn't anything special last season, and while they added a great pass rusher, we'll have to wait and see what his effect will be. Judging by preseason, Allen will get his sacks, but i don't think he'll have the ripple effect on the rest of the team as the Vikings were hoping for.




Here's the thing about Allen. If he had come here, we'd all be talking about how the move was Reggie White II. Super Bowl. Bam.

Of course, some would detract, and rightly so. My point is, he could send that team into "dominant" territory. He could, he could also just bump up their team sack totals. I'm leaning towards the former, myself. But, like everything, we'll have to just wait and see.


Hmm. All that to say "wait and see". My bad.
zombieslayer  
#50 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 2:46:07 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post


Here's the thing about Allen. If he had come here, we'd all be talking about how the move was Reggie White II. Super Bowl. Bam.

Of course, some would detract, and rightly so. My point is, he could send that team into "dominant" territory. He could, he could also just bump up their team sack totals. I'm leaning towards the former, myself. But, like everything, we'll have to just wait and see.


Hmm. All that to say "wait and see". My bad.


Agreed PIB.

We're simply not giving Allen any respect because he's a Viking. I'm taking the addition seriously, and I'm sure Mike McCarthy is taking it a lot more seriously than any of us. He'll have to gameplan accordingly, especially if we don't have our starting OL at 100% by then.

Look for Bennett to work with our RBs on blocking especially hard before game 1.
bozz_2006  
#51 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 3:01:37 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Vikings pass D wasn't anything special last season, and while they added a great pass rusher, we'll have to wait and see what his effect will be. Judging by preseason, Allen will get his sacks, but i don't think he'll have the ripple effect on the rest of the team as the Vikings were hoping for.




Here's the thing about Allen. If he had come here, we'd all be talking about how the move was Reggie White II. Super Bowl. Bam.

Of course, some would detract, and rightly so. My point is, he could send that team into "dominant" territory. He could, he could also just bump up their team sack totals. I'm leaning towards the former, myself. But, like everything, we'll have to just wait and see.


Hmm. All that to say "wait and see". My bad.


I thought he would have the Reggie White affect in Minneapolis; where his play has a ripple effect, enhancing the skills of everybody around him, one player elevating the level of play of the whole D. That's what i thought would happen. Yeah, I was scared. But, from what I've seen from his preseason appearances, and i live in minnesota, so i've seen them all, he hasn't had that affect. yes, he gets his sacks. no, his presence does not have a ripple effect.
NodakPaul  
#52 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:08:42 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Vikings pass D wasn't anything special last season, and while they added a great pass rusher, we'll have to wait and see what his effect will be. Judging by preseason, Allen will get his sacks, but i don't think he'll have the ripple effect on the rest of the team as the Vikings were hoping for.




Here's the thing about Allen. If he had come here, we'd all be talking about how the move was Reggie White II. Super Bowl. Bam.

Of course, some would detract, and rightly so. My point is, he could send that team into "dominant" territory. He could, he could also just bump up their team sack totals. I'm leaning towards the former, myself. But, like everything, we'll have to just wait and see.


Hmm. All that to say "wait and see". My bad.


I thought he would have the Reggie White affect in Minneapolis; where his play has a ripple effect, enhancing the skills of everybody around him, one player elevating the level of play of the whole D. That's what i thought would happen. Yeah, I was scared. But, from what I've seen from his preseason appearances, and i live in minnesota, so i've seen them all, he hasn't had that affect. yes, he gets his sacks. no, his presence does not have a ripple effect.


You are basing a lot off from a grand total of 3 1/2 quarters that he has played in preseason... Plus, for the majority of that time, the Vikings defense was performing well. Did you catch the Steelers game (in for 2+ quarters)? You know, the one where the Vikings defense held the Pitt. starting offense to only a field goal (and that was after a turnover)?

I realize that as a Packer fan you have a hard time viewing the Vikings objectively. Especially as a packer fan living in Minnesota. But take the green glasses off for a second. Do you really not see the Vikings D as improved. Do you really think that Jared Allen is not going to have an effect on the game?

I honestly think that because you want to see Allen have little effect on the Vikings defense, you are only looking at the plays and data that supports your predetermined belief. It happens with every fan. On the Vikings site, there are a LOT of people who are keying in on the mistakes that Rodgers has made in the preseason and using it as justification to claim that he will be horrible this year. They are as wrong about Rodgers as you are about Allen.
bozz_2006  
#53 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:29:56 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Vikings pass D wasn't anything special last season, and while they added a great pass rusher, we'll have to wait and see what his effect will be. Judging by preseason, Allen will get his sacks, but i don't think he'll have the ripple effect on the rest of the team as the Vikings were hoping for.




Here's the thing about Allen. If he had come here, we'd all be talking about how the move was Reggie White II. Super Bowl. Bam.

Of course, some would detract, and rightly so. My point is, he could send that team into "dominant" territory. He could, he could also just bump up their team sack totals. I'm leaning towards the former, myself. But, like everything, we'll have to just wait and see.


Hmm. All that to say "wait and see". My bad.


I thought he would have the Reggie White affect in Minneapolis; where his play has a ripple effect, enhancing the skills of everybody around him, one player elevating the level of play of the whole D. That's what i thought would happen. Yeah, I was scared. But, from what I've seen from his preseason appearances, and i live in minnesota, so i've seen them all, he hasn't had that affect. yes, he gets his sacks. no, his presence does not have a ripple effect.


You are basing a lot off from a grand total of 3 1/2 quarters that he has played in preseason...


very true. i'm probably assuming too much. we'll see. thanks for the thoughtful response.
zombieslayer  
#54 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:54:07 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post

Do you really think that Jared Allen is not going to have an effect on the game?


I guarantee you that a good size chunk of Mike McCarthy 's game plan in week 1 for us will be minimizing the effect of Jared Allen. We absolutely cannot allow him to ruin our passing game. He will be double teamed all day long, and you might see us run some quick screens to limit his effectiveness.
Mike McCarthy does a fabulous job at knowing opponent's strengths and weaknesses and adjusting accordingly. That's one of my favorite things about him as a Coach.
porky88  
#55 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:01:12 PM(UTC)
Yeah Allen is going to have a big effect on the Vikes defense. The big question is how much?

I don't think he's going to be as good as some Viking fans think and what I mean by that is he'll get his sacks but the last time I check they still have holes in their secondary and they still have Tavaris Jackson at QB and those poor receivers.

With that said Allen is arguably the best defensive player in the entire division right now so of course he'll have a big impact.
bozz_2006  
#56 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:11:04 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post

Do you really think that Jared Allen is not going to have an effect on the game?


I guarantee you that a good size chunk of Mike McCarthy 's game plan in week 1 for us will be minimizing the effect of Jared Allen. We absolutely cannot allow him to ruin our passing game. He will be double teamed all day long, and you might see us run some quick screens to limit his effectiveness.
Mike McCarthy does a fabulous job at knowing opponent's strengths and weaknesses and adjusting accordingly. That's one of my favorite things about him as a Coach.


Also, I was careful to not say that Allen wouldn't have an effect. i said he wouldn't have a reggie white effect. I said he'll get his sacks, but i don't think he will completely take over a game the way Reggie did. but, we'll see.
zombieslayer  
#57 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:26:36 PM(UTC)
Well, this is why earlier in this post, I put that we have an advantage in the Coaching, something Nodak left off of his original post.

A big part of coaching is recognizing your own strengths and weaknesses, and recognizing your opponent's strengths and weaknesses and making the appropriate adjustments.

Childress isn't good at using the weapons he has. The Vikings on paper are an excellent team (except for the glaring weakness at QB) and Mike McCarthy will do his best to work around their strengths.

I bet you Mike McCarthy will lose sleep over Allen, but that lost sleep for us Packer fans is a good thing.

I'd be very worried if the Vikings had Allen and Coughlin from the Giants as their Coach. Someone like Coughlin could turn Allen into a lesser Reggie White, and Allen could single-handedly ruin our day.
Pack93z  
#58 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:45:26 PM(UTC)
This is a excellent thread.. later tonight I hope to read carefully through it and then proceed to disagree tooth and nail with NP if I can. :lol:
warhawk  
#59 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:47:20 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post

Do you really think that Jared Allen is not going to have an effect on the game?


I guarantee you that a good size chunk of Mike McCarthy 's game plan in week 1 for us will be minimizing the effect of Jared Allen. We absolutely cannot allow him to ruin our passing game. He will be double teamed all day long, and you might see us run some quick screens to limit his effectiveness.
Mike McCarthy does a fabulous job at knowing opponent's strengths and weaknesses and adjusting accordingly. That's one of my favorite things about him as a Coach.


To your point the Packers were the ONLY team to not get manhandled by the pass rush of the Giants. We got beat but Favre was provided reasonable time for most of that game UNLIKE the train wreck they put on other teams like the "Boys and NE. I have to believe our guys were coached and prepared well going into that game.


You have to remember NO team has dominated our OL in pass protection in YEARS. We are traditionally one of the top five teams in sacks allowed and fewest pressures. These are the real numbers. Not just what someone hopes to see happen. If we allow two sacks in any one game that's a lot for us. Part of this was Favre but ARod displays a little flair for getting out of pressure as well.
zombieslayer  
#60 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 8:18:33 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post

To your point the Packers were the ONLY team to not get manhandled by the pass rush of the Giants. We got beat but Favre was provided reasonable time for most of that game UNLIKE the train wreck they put on other teams like the "Boys and NE. I have to believe our guys were coached and prepared well going into that game.


You have to remember NO team has dominated our OL in pass protection in YEARS. We are traditionally one of the top five teams in sacks allowed and fewest pressures. These are the real numbers. Not just what someone hopes to see happen. If we allow two sacks in any one game that's a lot for us. Part of this was Favre but ARod displays a little flair for getting out of pressure as well.


I'm hoping Aaron learns to get rid of the ball faster. I've seen him hold on to the ball too long. I'm sure with experience, he'll overcome this.

Yes, part of this was Favre. How much of it was Favre? hard to say. I guess we find out when regular season starts.
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