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Offline MintBaconDrivel  
#1 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 11:05:20 AM(UTC)
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ProFootballTalk wrote:
Finesse will not be high on the list of things the Packers are looking for in the draft.

That’s the impression left by Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, who reports that people close to Packers coach Mike McCarthy and General Manager Ted Thompson say that both men have “freely acknowledged” in the last three months that the team is too soft and small. They are “bound and determined” to get things moving in the other direction, a project that should inform their draft decisions.

Message modified by moderator Sunday, April 21, 2013 11:17:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Delivering the latest and most important updates on the Green Bay Packers for your convenience.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#2 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 11:32:42 AM(UTC)
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Sounds good to me. I don't know about small, but lacking toughness for sure.
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Offline nerdmann  
#3 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 12:09:45 PM(UTC)
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Good. I'm sick of this finesse bullshit.
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Offline wpr  
#4 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 12:42:31 PM(UTC)
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I am glad to hear this. After reading that Mc Carthy was saying the team was tough I was more than a little concerned that he was clueless. I really don't care what he tells the fans as long as he knows what needs to be done and he and Uncle Teddy do it.

jsonline wrote:
But some people close to Mike McCarthy and Ted Thompson say the Green Bay Packers' football leaders have freely acknowledged that perception in private over the past three months, and now are bound and determined to do something about it.
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nerdmann on 4/21/2013(UTC)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#5 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 12:57:43 PM(UTC)
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With this article, I am curious to see how the Packers attack the draft. If they truly want to get bigger and tougher, they will probably accumulate draft picks. After the last 49ers game, Charles Woodson said the Packers needed to get bigger and faster.
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Offline DakotaT  
#6 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 1:28:14 PM(UTC)
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On defense, I say halleluiah!!!!!!! On offense, I'm okay with more power run blocking, but keep in mind, we have the best quarterback in the league and one of the brightest offensive minded coaches. Why would we want to go all in on a power running game, when our offense is pretty potent as is?
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Offline wpr  
#7 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 2:04:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
On defense, I say halleluiah!!!!!!! On offense, I'm okay with more power run blocking, but keep in mind, we have the best quarterback in the league and one of the brightest offensive minded coaches. Why would we want to go all in on a power running game, when our offense is pretty potent as is?


stat whore. you just want to break Favre's records. Laughing
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Offline Mucky Tundra  
#8 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 2:15:20 PM(UTC)
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For me getting more physical on offense means running the ball more, proving you got more will and determination than the other team. Even if it's just straight up the gut for a 3 yards. Take a for example the playoff game last year when they kicked a FG from the 1 yard line. If that same situation comes again this year I want to see us going for it. On the other hand, if we get down to the goal line and we're lining up shotgun spread like we have the past few years, then I'll know Mike McCarthy is just talking out of his ass.

In short: talking tough is one thing, but proving it out on the field is another
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Offline rabidgopher04  
#9 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 2:35:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra Go to Quoted Post
For me getting more physical on offense means running the ball more, proving you got more will and determination than the other team. Even if it's just straight up the gut for a 3 yards. Take a for example the playoff game last year when they kicked a FG from the 1 yard line. If that same situation comes again this year I want to see us going for it. On the other hand, if we get down to the goal line and we're lining up shotgun spread like we have the past few years, then I'll know Mike McCarthy is just talking out of his ass.

In short: talking tough is one thing, but proving it out on the field is another


To me it's just winning on the line of scrimmage whether on pass plays or run plays. We need a dominant line that can protect the QB. That's being more physical.
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Offline steveishere  
#10 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 3:41:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra Go to Quoted Post
For me getting more physical on offense means running the ball more, proving you got more will and determination than the other team. Even if it's just straight up the gut for a 3 yards. Take a for example the playoff game last year when they kicked a FG from the 1 yard line. If that same situation comes again this year I want to see us going for it. On the other hand, if we get down to the goal line and we're lining up shotgun spread like we have the past few years, then I'll know Mike McCarthy is just talking out of his ass.

In short: talking tough is one thing, but proving it out on the field is another


They don't really need to run more they just need to run more effectively. Last year they were about 16th in total offensive drives and 16th in rushing attempts so they had a good balance. Especially when you consider how bad they were at running. I don't care what the perception is it takes some sort of commitment to get that many attempts with the best QB and a very bad rushing attack.

Until they get more effective running the ball it simply makes more sense to lean on Rodgers in critical and short yardage situations instead of the inconsistent and unreliable running game.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
DoddPower on 4/21/2013(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#11 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 4:12:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
On defense, I say halleluiah!!!!!!! On offense, I'm okay with more power run blocking, but keep in mind, we have the best quarterback in the league and one of the brightest offensive minded coaches. Why would we want to go all in on a power running game, when our offense is pretty potent as is?


To bring the safeties up, so that Aaron can continue to throw deep constantly.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline DakotaT  
#12 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 4:25:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
stat whore. you just want to break Favre's records. Laughing


Shame on you

Aren't you the stat whore?
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Offline DakotaT  
#13 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 4:27:55 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
To bring the safeties up, so that Aaron can continue to throw deep constantly.


You can accomplish that with the slant passes, screen passes, and quick checkdowns too. The Packers just got a little greedy and arrogant over the last couple years.
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Offline Mucky Tundra  
#14 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 5:06:54 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
They don't really need to run more they just need to run more effectively. Last year they were about 16th in total offensive drives and 16th in rushing attempts so they had a good balance. Especially when you consider how bad they were at running. I don't care what the perception is it takes some sort of commitment to get that many attempts with the best QB and a very bad rushing attack.

Until they get more effective running the ball it simply makes more sense to lean on Rodgers in critical and short yardage situations instead of the inconsistent and unreliable running game.


They're never gonna get better at running the ball until they decide to stick with it even when it's not working. This team only runs the ball in the 1st quarter and when it's milking the clock in the 4th. When the game is on the line Mike McCarthy morphs into Andy Reid 2.0 and the offense becomes one-dimensional and predictable. It requires patience and the will to stick with it over four quarters, not just when it's convenient.
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Offline nerdmann  
#15 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 5:25:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
You can accomplish that with the slant passes, screen passes, and quick checkdowns too. The Packers just got a little greedy and arrogant over the last couple years.


This would require a QB who is willing to throw slant passes, screens and checkdowns consistently.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline steveishere  
#16 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 5:35:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra Go to Quoted Post
They're never gonna get better at running the ball until they decide to stick with it even when it's not working. This team only runs the ball in the 1st quarter and when it's milking the clock in the 4th. When the game is on the line Mike McCarthy morphs into Andy Reid 2.0 and the offense becomes one-dimensional and predictable. It requires patience and the will to stick with it over four quarters, not just when it's convenient.


Not really, they suck at running it period. They aren't going to suddenly start running the ball well mid season by bashing their heads against the wall too much early on. You aren't going to start converting more 3rd and 1 or goal line situations by running the ball for -2 a bunch of times. The point of offense isn't to force a balance no matter the circumstances it's to score as many points as you can the best way that you can. They tried to run the ball last year even though it got them absolutely nothing. Anything more than that is simply going to be a detriment. Effectiveness is WAY more important than balance. If this team had a 75/25 pass run ratio with effective running on the 25% it would still be better than a 50/50 ratio with shitty running.

Sure you can come up with game by game situations where more running at certain times may have helped but there are also probably plenty of situations where passing the ball on 1st down would have been a lot better than running for -4 or where a couple more passes at the end of the game could have gotten you a 1st down to run out the clock instead of 3 and out running but that's all speculation anyways.
Offline dfosterf  
#17 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 6:17:38 PM(UTC)
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Get more physical. I have been crying at that moon in the wilderness for several years. I'll believe it when I see it.

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Offline DoddPower  
#18 Posted : Sunday, April 21, 2013 7:42:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
This would require a QB who is willing to throw slant passes, screens and checkdowns consistently.


The Packers should have just traded for Alex Smith, then. Problem solved.
Offline PackerTraxx  
#19 Posted : Monday, April 22, 2013 10:18:50 AM(UTC)
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Big plays and quick scores are fun to watch but I'll take long scoring drives everytime with the exception of a clock issue.
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nerdmann on 4/22/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#20 Posted : Monday, April 22, 2013 12:23:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
Not really, they suck at running it period. They aren't going to suddenly start running the ball well mid season by bashing their heads against the wall too much early on. You aren't going to start converting more 3rd and 1 or goal line situations by running the ball for -2 a bunch of times. The point of offense isn't to force a balance no matter the circumstances it's to score as many points as you can the best way that you can. They tried to run the ball last year even though it got them absolutely nothing. Anything more than that is simply going to be a detriment. Effectiveness is WAY more important than balance. If this team had a 75/25 pass run ratio with effective running on the 25% it would still be better than a 50/50 ratio with shitty running.

Sure you can come up with game by game situations where more running at certain times may have helped but there are also probably plenty of situations where passing the ball on 1st down would have been a lot better than running for -4 or where a couple more passes at the end of the game could have gotten you a 1st down to run out the clock instead of 3 and out running but that's all speculation anyways.


I do not believe any of this, at all. Our opinions of how to best be successful on offense differ greatly.

Green Bay rushed more last year than they had since 2009. And, they still need to rush more than that. They can do it. McCarthy saw how important it was to an effective offense. At least, I hope like hell he did. What you described above got us killed at home against SF and away at SEA to start our season, amongst other horrific losses, each of which followed McCarthy's pass happy failure by ignoring the run: IND, NYG come to mind. Not to mention, Rodgers took a pounding. He was sacked more than any QB in 2012, 51 times. The point is, they need to run more, way more.

We need to be a more powerful, determined team altogether, and that includes offensively. pound that rock with the run, and our OL will be more effective, as will our passing game, which we all know to be pretty damn good. You know when it is not pretty damn good? When we fail to run the football. This is really simple stuff.

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yooperfan on 4/22/2013(UTC)
Offline steveishere  
#21 Posted : Monday, April 22, 2013 2:52:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I do not believe any of this, at all. Our opinions of how to best be successful on offense differ greatly.

Green Bay rushed more last year than they had since 2009. And, they still need to rush more than that. They can do it. McCarthy saw how important it was to an effective offense. At least, I hope like hell he did. What you described above got us killed at home against SF and away at SEA to start our season, amongst other horrific losses, each of which followed McCarthy's pass happy failure by ignoring the run: IND, NYG come to mind. Not to mention, Rodgers took a pounding. He was sacked more than any QB in 2012, 51 times. The point is, they need to run more, way more.

We need to be a more powerful, determined team altogether, and that includes offensively. pound that rock with the run, and our OL will be more effective, as will our passing game, which we all know to be pretty damn good. You know when it is not pretty damn good? When we fail to run the football. This is really simple stuff.


I'm not sure you got my point. The point is they need to run the ball BETTER. If the running game stays at it's current level of effectiveness just running the ball more isn't going to make them suddenly able to beat up on people they couldn't beat up on before. More plays where the RB gets destroyed in the backfield or runs outside and loses a couple extra yards isn't what is needed. More plays where the RB hits the hole decisively, falls forward and actually gets 4 yards or a critical first down is what is needed. It's fine if in your opinion more shitty runs will improve the offense but more shitty runs are still more shitty runs and it won't improve by very much and that isn't enough.

If we actually had a reliable and consistent running game McCarthy I'm sure would use it (he has before) and then everybody would say "see running helps" but it's obvious he doesn't trust it enough to lean on in important situations and I don't blame him.
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evad04 on 4/27/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#22 Posted : Monday, April 22, 2013 4:51:24 PM(UTC)
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Thanks Steve. Gotcha.

I agree, their attempts, while up, have been very ineffective. Not to mention, Rodgers alone accounted for 55 rushing attempts last year.

I can't help but feel McCarthy has been resistant to utilizing the run - making matters worse. I'm hoping that changes! Better personnel, and a more dedicated mindset is what we need in order to improve.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#23 Posted : Saturday, April 27, 2013 12:47:17 PM(UTC)
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I think this is what the Packers are doing with this draft.
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thanks Post received 1 applause.
play2win on 4/27/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#24 Posted : Saturday, April 27, 2013 12:49:35 PM(UTC)
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Holy crap. You said it bro!
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