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Offline zombieslayer  
#46 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:20:32 PM(UTC)
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Now, in defense of Nodak, a passing D can be greatly improved with the same secondary, but with an improved pass rush. The Giants secondary was not really that good. They were average. Nothing spectacular.

Now, what did they do? They knocked off 3 of the 4 top passing teams to win the SB. How did they do that? With a pass rush.

You can NOT throw the ball when you're on your back and the referee has blown the whistle. Sacks, pressures, hurries. The Giants were good at that. Got in your face. Made you get the ball off. Made you panic. Made you do something you'd later regret. It was their strength.

The Vikings are hoping they can do the same thing. If they can, they'll go farther than us Packer fans would like them to. That's the big if.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. Ted Thompson Mike McCarthy Aaron Rodgers
Offline bozz_2006  
#47 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:39:33 PM(UTC)
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Vikings pass D wasn't anything special last season, and while they added a great pass rusher, we'll have to wait and see what his effect will be. Judging by preseason, Allen will get his sacks, but i don't think he'll have the ripple effect on the rest of the team as the Vikings were hoping for.
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Offline pack_in_black  
#48 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:56:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
When we were younger, I remember riding with my brother in the backseat of our minivan. Being older, I'm kinda bugging him, giving him a hard time about something. He calls me a dick. I ask him if he knows how to spell it. D-A-K, he says. Isn't that funny, NodakPaul?

:D

Sorry for that, all.


I would reply about the WI education system, the inability of cheeseheads to spell, and the fact that I am secure enough in my manhood to laugh off dick jokes.

But since there is no smack here, I won't. :D



Well played, Mr. Paul. Well played, indeed. +1

:thumbright:
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Offline pack_in_black  
#49 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 2:05:44 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Vikings pass D wasn't anything special last season, and while they added a great pass rusher, we'll have to wait and see what his effect will be. Judging by preseason, Allen will get his sacks, but i don't think he'll have the ripple effect on the rest of the team as the Vikings were hoping for.




Here's the thing about Allen. If he had come here, we'd all be talking about how the move was Reggie White II. Super Bowl. Bam.

Of course, some would detract, and rightly so. My point is, he could send that team into "dominant" territory. He could, he could also just bump up their team sack totals. I'm leaning towards the former, myself. But, like everything, we'll have to just wait and see.


Hmm. All that to say "wait and see". My bad.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#50 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 2:46:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post


Here's the thing about Allen. If he had come here, we'd all be talking about how the move was Reggie White II. Super Bowl. Bam.

Of course, some would detract, and rightly so. My point is, he could send that team into "dominant" territory. He could, he could also just bump up their team sack totals. I'm leaning towards the former, myself. But, like everything, we'll have to just wait and see.


Hmm. All that to say "wait and see". My bad.


Agreed PIB.

We're simply not giving Allen any respect because he's a Viking. I'm taking the addition seriously, and I'm sure Mike McCarthy is taking it a lot more seriously than any of us. He'll have to gameplan accordingly, especially if we don't have our starting OL at 100% by then.

Look for Bennett to work with our RBs on blocking especially hard before game 1.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. Ted Thompson Mike McCarthy Aaron Rodgers
Offline bozz_2006  
#51 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 3:01:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Vikings pass D wasn't anything special last season, and while they added a great pass rusher, we'll have to wait and see what his effect will be. Judging by preseason, Allen will get his sacks, but i don't think he'll have the ripple effect on the rest of the team as the Vikings were hoping for.




Here's the thing about Allen. If he had come here, we'd all be talking about how the move was Reggie White II. Super Bowl. Bam.

Of course, some would detract, and rightly so. My point is, he could send that team into "dominant" territory. He could, he could also just bump up their team sack totals. I'm leaning towards the former, myself. But, like everything, we'll have to just wait and see.


Hmm. All that to say "wait and see". My bad.


I thought he would have the Reggie White affect in Minneapolis; where his play has a ripple effect, enhancing the skills of everybody around him, one player elevating the level of play of the whole D. That's what i thought would happen. Yeah, I was scared. But, from what I've seen from his preseason appearances, and i live in minnesota, so i've seen them all, he hasn't had that affect. yes, he gets his sacks. no, his presence does not have a ripple effect.
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Offline NodakPaul  
#52 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:08:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Vikings pass D wasn't anything special last season, and while they added a great pass rusher, we'll have to wait and see what his effect will be. Judging by preseason, Allen will get his sacks, but i don't think he'll have the ripple effect on the rest of the team as the Vikings were hoping for.




Here's the thing about Allen. If he had come here, we'd all be talking about how the move was Reggie White II. Super Bowl. Bam.

Of course, some would detract, and rightly so. My point is, he could send that team into "dominant" territory. He could, he could also just bump up their team sack totals. I'm leaning towards the former, myself. But, like everything, we'll have to just wait and see.


Hmm. All that to say "wait and see". My bad.


I thought he would have the Reggie White affect in Minneapolis; where his play has a ripple effect, enhancing the skills of everybody around him, one player elevating the level of play of the whole D. That's what i thought would happen. Yeah, I was scared. But, from what I've seen from his preseason appearances, and i live in minnesota, so i've seen them all, he hasn't had that affect. yes, he gets his sacks. no, his presence does not have a ripple effect.


You are basing a lot off from a grand total of 3 1/2 quarters that he has played in preseason... Plus, for the majority of that time, the Vikings defense was performing well. Did you catch the Steelers game (in for 2+ quarters)? You know, the one where the Vikings defense held the Pitt. starting offense to only a field goal (and that was after a turnover)?

I realize that as a Packer fan you have a hard time viewing the Vikings objectively. Especially as a packer fan living in Minnesota. But take the green glasses off for a second. Do you really not see the Vikings D as improved. Do you really think that Jared Allen is not going to have an effect on the game?

I honestly think that because you want to see Allen have little effect on the Vikings defense, you are only looking at the plays and data that supports your predetermined belief. It happens with every fan. On the Vikings site, there are a LOT of people who are keying in on the mistakes that Rodgers has made in the preseason and using it as justification to claim that he will be horrible this year. They are as wrong about Rodgers as you are about Allen.
"There's the snap, Rodgers with a quick drop - in trouble! AND SACKED BY ALLEN! The ball is lose, the ball is lose, and recovered by Kevin Williams! And that's the ball game! Childress and the Vikings FINALLY beat the Packers!"
--
Offline bozz_2006  
#53 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:29:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Vikings pass D wasn't anything special last season, and while they added a great pass rusher, we'll have to wait and see what his effect will be. Judging by preseason, Allen will get his sacks, but i don't think he'll have the ripple effect on the rest of the team as the Vikings were hoping for.




Here's the thing about Allen. If he had come here, we'd all be talking about how the move was Reggie White II. Super Bowl. Bam.

Of course, some would detract, and rightly so. My point is, he could send that team into "dominant" territory. He could, he could also just bump up their team sack totals. I'm leaning towards the former, myself. But, like everything, we'll have to just wait and see.


Hmm. All that to say "wait and see". My bad.


I thought he would have the Reggie White affect in Minneapolis; where his play has a ripple effect, enhancing the skills of everybody around him, one player elevating the level of play of the whole D. That's what i thought would happen. Yeah, I was scared. But, from what I've seen from his preseason appearances, and i live in minnesota, so i've seen them all, he hasn't had that affect. yes, he gets his sacks. no, his presence does not have a ripple effect.


You are basing a lot off from a grand total of 3 1/2 quarters that he has played in preseason...


very true. i'm probably assuming too much. we'll see. thanks for the thoughtful response.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#54 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:54:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

Do you really think that Jared Allen is not going to have an effect on the game?


I guarantee you that a good size chunk of Mike McCarthy 's game plan in week 1 for us will be minimizing the effect of Jared Allen. We absolutely cannot allow him to ruin our passing game. He will be double teamed all day long, and you might see us run some quick screens to limit his effectiveness.
Mike McCarthy does a fabulous job at knowing opponent's strengths and weaknesses and adjusting accordingly. That's one of my favorite things about him as a Coach.
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Offline porky88  
#55 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:01:12 PM(UTC)
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Yeah Allen is going to have a big effect on the Vikes defense. The big question is how much?

I don't think he's going to be as good as some Viking fans think and what I mean by that is he'll get his sacks but the last time I check they still have holes in their secondary and they still have Tavaris Jackson at QB and those poor receivers.

With that said Allen is arguably the best defensive player in the entire division right now so of course he'll have a big impact.
Offline bozz_2006  
#56 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:11:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

Do you really think that Jared Allen is not going to have an effect on the game?


I guarantee you that a good size chunk of Mike McCarthy 's game plan in week 1 for us will be minimizing the effect of Jared Allen. We absolutely cannot allow him to ruin our passing game. He will be double teamed all day long, and you might see us run some quick screens to limit his effectiveness.
Mike McCarthy does a fabulous job at knowing opponent's strengths and weaknesses and adjusting accordingly. That's one of my favorite things about him as a Coach.


Also, I was careful to not say that Allen wouldn't have an effect. i said he wouldn't have a reggie white effect. I said he'll get his sacks, but i don't think he will completely take over a game the way Reggie did. but, we'll see.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#57 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:26:36 PM(UTC)
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Well, this is why earlier in this post, I put that we have an advantage in the Coaching, something Nodak left off of his original post.

A big part of coaching is recognizing your own strengths and weaknesses, and recognizing your opponent's strengths and weaknesses and making the appropriate adjustments.

Childress isn't good at using the weapons he has. The Vikings on paper are an excellent team (except for the glaring weakness at QB) and Mike McCarthy will do his best to work around their strengths.

I bet you Mike McCarthy will lose sleep over Allen, but that lost sleep for us Packer fans is a good thing.

I'd be very worried if the Vikings had Allen and Coughlin from the Giants as their Coach. Someone like Coughlin could turn Allen into a lesser Reggie White, and Allen could single-handedly ruin our day.
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Offline Pack93z  
#58 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:45:26 PM(UTC)
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This is a excellent thread.. later tonight I hope to read carefully through it and then proceed to disagree tooth and nail with NP if I can. :lol:
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline warhawk  
#59 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:47:20 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

Do you really think that Jared Allen is not going to have an effect on the game?


I guarantee you that a good size chunk of Mike McCarthy 's game plan in week 1 for us will be minimizing the effect of Jared Allen. We absolutely cannot allow him to ruin our passing game. He will be double teamed all day long, and you might see us run some quick screens to limit his effectiveness.
Mike McCarthy does a fabulous job at knowing opponent's strengths and weaknesses and adjusting accordingly. That's one of my favorite things about him as a Coach.


To your point the Packers were the ONLY team to not get manhandled by the pass rush of the Giants. We got beat but Favre was provided reasonable time for most of that game UNLIKE the train wreck they put on other teams like the "Boys and NE. I have to believe our guys were coached and prepared well going into that game.


You have to remember NO team has dominated our OL in pass protection in YEARS. We are traditionally one of the top five teams in sacks allowed and fewest pressures. These are the real numbers. Not just what someone hopes to see happen. If we allow two sacks in any one game that's a lot for us. Part of this was Favre but ARod displays a little flair for getting out of pressure as well.
"The train is leaving the station."
Offline zombieslayer  
#60 Posted : Wednesday, August 27, 2008 8:18:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post

To your point the Packers were the ONLY team to not get manhandled by the pass rush of the Giants. We got beat but Favre was provided reasonable time for most of that game UNLIKE the train wreck they put on other teams like the "Boys and NE. I have to believe our guys were coached and prepared well going into that game.


You have to remember NO team has dominated our OL in pass protection in YEARS. We are traditionally one of the top five teams in sacks allowed and fewest pressures. These are the real numbers. Not just what someone hopes to see happen. If we allow two sacks in any one game that's a lot for us. Part of this was Favre but ARod displays a little flair for getting out of pressure as well.


I'm hoping Aaron learns to get rid of the ball faster. I've seen him hold on to the ball too long. I'm sure with experience, he'll overcome this.

Yes, part of this was Favre. How much of it was Favre? hard to say. I guess we find out when regular season starts.
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