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Offline DakotaT  
#51 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2013 6:34:32 AM(UTC)
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I just hope we don't piss away any more years of a future hall of fame first ballot quarterback dicking around with the positions of inadequate offensive lineman. I don't believe Marshall Newhouse and EDS have starting talent for NFL standards and they need to be replaced. I also question Lang's talent level as well, so switching him around constantly cannot be a good thing. We can get buy with Barclay at RT because he is very good at run blocking, but he may need a little help on the field in pass blocking. As for Sherrod, Tretter, and Bacteria - I hope they have the stuff it takes to get into the starting lineup very soon.
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Offline play2win  
#52 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2013 6:40:09 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
Rodgers isn't that much better than Cutler.



Whoooaaaah!

Take THAT BACK! Laughing Laughing Laughing

A ballsy, stupidly ballsy (no harm intended my friend) statement by The QC to start our Saturday...
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DoddPower on 5/4/2013(UTC)
Offline Pack93z  
#53 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2013 6:51:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
Cherry picking stats can prove any argument.

The OL makes up 5/11 of the starters on offense. Has our offense been bad? If half of the offense is coached this poorly, how can it possibly perform? Because our OL is decent.

Can it be better? Absolutely.

Packers had the #9 Passing team last year. Bears were 29th. Rodgers isn't that much better than Cutler.


Didn't cherry pick.. just grabbed the stats at the heart of the argument. We will just agree to disagree, no I don't think they were a pathetic line.. but they also didn't play up to their talents and year after year struggle in protection reads.

To me, that fall on coaching. You seem to think that isn't the root of the problem. Great.

And yes Rodgers is that much better than Cutler. And the difference isn't in physical talent.. it is in poise, patience and confidence. Cutler's biggest issues exist between the ears and behind the eyes. And it is a vast difference between them. And search my statements on Cutler over the years, this is not a new statement for this thread. Big Grin
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Zero2Cool  
#54 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2013 6:52:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
Just set the line, AND KEEP THE SAME 5 GUYS AT THE SAME 5 POSITIONS!!!

I'm fine with the moves as long as they don't decide midway through the pre-seaon that it's not working and start flipping guys around.

Know who your starters are, know who your backups are.

If and when an injury occurs, plug in the backup guy, don't start flipping your starters all over.

"The Jeff Saturday" experiment last year was one of the worst moves Ted has made.



Maybe in hindsight, sure, but the Jeff Saturday signing seemed to perk up most Packers fans - link.
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Offline Tezzy  
#55 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2013 7:41:02 AM(UTC)
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Easy to just say get better talent for the line to replace the left side. The Packers reality right now is the best talent was on the right side. I have no problem with seeing how this change goes. If you are going to do it, Bulaga and Sitton are about the best combo to try it. Bulaga obviously has plenty of years playing on the left side, and Sitton has good feet and a good enough athlete I won't be surprised if he maintains his level of play. No prediction that it will succeed or fail, but I like the chances for improved line play with this move.
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Offline wpr  
#56 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2013 8:39:03 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Maybe in hindsight, sure, but the Jeff Saturday signing seemed to perk up most Packers fans - link.


I called it a "nice pickup". I did so because I assumed that Ted and Mike checked him out and knew that Saturday still had a lot left in the tank. Face. Palm.
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Offline PackerTraxx  
#57 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2013 8:54:50 AM(UTC)
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More times than not, when there are problems across a position, it starts and possibly ends with the position coach.
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Offline warhawk  
#58 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2013 9:04:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
I was not expecting this. I wanted to see what they had at LT with Bulaga, but now Sitton. I hope they think this will make the team better. My opinion on this is they want to run to the left more.. Best run blockers on the team. And of course want to protect dat franchise. Time to see if Bulaga has what it takes.

I think the Guard change makes sense as well. Bulaga and Sitton have been playing next to each other for a couple of years now. Newhouse has been playing next to Lang.
What I see is the moves allowing the OL to become cohesive quicker than having to get used to the guy next to you. I think moving Bulaga to LT and leaving Lane next to him and having Sitton next to Newhouse or Sherrod would be more radical than what they are doing. Knowing the guy next to you and how you communicate is a huge part of a successful OL and I see these moves allowing that aspect to come along much faster.
I agree Bulaga is the key. If he can perform at a high level and these new RB's make a difference the overall OL play will be much improved and this is obviously the plan moving forward.


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Offline steveishere  
#59 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2013 10:32:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
I called it a "nice pickup". I did so because I assumed that Ted and Mike checked him out and knew that Saturday still had a lot left in the tank. Face. Palm.


I'm sure they did check him out. He had a nice year prior and stayed pretty healthy. That's the risk with signing those older vets though. They can just go from a great season to over the cliff in 1 year.
Offline sschind  
#60 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2013 3:59:29 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doddpower Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, better late than never. Sure, it could have been attempted earlier, but it wasn't. They have got to do what they can from here, regardless of what has happened in the past. It's not ideal, but reality hardly ever is. At least now they have an entire off season and season to grow. I don't think Bulaga will be any worse than Newhouse at LT, and very likely much better. I also think Newhouse has the potential to be a very solid RT and will be much more valuable there than at LT. This move could definitely pay off, but there will be some growing pains.



The only reason it is not ideal is because you are basically admitting that the right side of you line sucks and you are being forced into a drastic move. In reality this might be the ideal thing to do. Of course it might backfire big time as well. Time will tell.

What I don't get all the "should have done it from the beginning" type talk from some people. The beginning of what? As far as I am concerned this is the beginning. The draft is over and we pretty much know who we have to work with so the change was made. It would have been foolish to make the move prior to the draft because, playing the what if game, what if a stud left tackle would have fallen to use or the opportunity to move up to get one would have presented itself. If we had made the move we would have had to unmake it. It could have been done earlier but to me earlier would have been this time last year. It's not a move you make midseason or after training camp starts. You have to give your players the maximum amount of time to adjust and doing it now does that.

The more I think about it the more I like the move. If you are convinced that Sitton and Bulaga are our best linemen, and why wouldn't you be, and you know the players we have to work with why wouldn't you want to have your best guys in the most important positions. Looking at it another way, if you have to have one side of your line be weaker than the other wouldn't you prefer that to be the right side. The only argument I could see against it is if you don't think Bulaga and Sitton on the right side will be better than who we had to begin with.

Maybe some people are having issues because it is a drastic move that reeks of desperation. Its like a double reverse flea flicker. It's a trick play and it makes it seem like we are desperate. Well, according to some people, when it comes to our offensive line we are desperate. I just don't see it like that. I see it as a coaching staff trying to make the best with the players they have to work with.
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Offline sschind  
#61 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2013 4:16:26 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan Go to Quoted Post
Just set the line, AND KEEP THE SAME 5 GUYS AT THE SAME 5 POSITIONS!!!

I'm fine with the moves as long as they don't decide midway through the pre-seaon that it's not working and start flipping guys around.

Know who your starters are, know who your backups are.

If and when an injury occurs, plug in the backup guy, don't start flipping your starters all over.

"The Jeff Saturday" experiment last year was one of the worst moves Ted has made.



That is a huge key to the success of an offensive line. I am hoping that Bulaga and Sitton will anchor the left side. Newhouse can nail the RT position and one of the rookies can step in and be the starting RG. Why? because then we will have Lange as our #1 backup and if 1 player gets hurt we may not have to switch 3 guys around. If Mike McCarthy says Lange can play center then he can cover both center and guard. If Sherrod can come back we will have a decent backup at LT and Barclay has shown that he can play RG. One injury, one replacement. None of this whole line shift.

Then maybe we can get the consistency that everyone agrees is the real key. Of course a year without multiple injuries would help a great deal.

I respect your right to have your opinion but that doesn't mean I agree with it or respect you for having it.
Offline steveishere  
#62 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2013 5:15:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: sschind Go to Quoted Post
That is a huge key to the success of an offensive line. I am hoping that Bulaga and Sitton will anchor the left side. Newhouse can nail the RT position and one of the rookies can step in and be the starting RG. Why? because then we will have Lange as our #1 backup and if 1 player gets hurt we may not have to switch 3 guys around. If Mike McCarthy says Lange can play center then he can cover both center and guard. If Sherrod can come back we will have a decent backup at LT and Barclay has shown that he can play RG. One injury, one replacement. None of this whole line shift.

Then maybe we can get the consistency that everyone agrees is the real key. Of course a year without multiple injuries would help a great deal.



I don't really see any of the rookies beating Lang
Offline beast  
#63 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2013 7:21:05 PM(UTC)
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I think Barclay could be GREAT at OG. ... I wonder how well Lang can play Center... I do like D-Smith but I like Sitton, Lang and Barclay more... and if Lang can play Center and you can get all three of them in there at once might be very good OL.

LT: Bulaga
LG: Sitton
OC: Lang / D-Smith
RG: Barclay
RT: Newhouse / Sherrod

D-Smith would probably back-up all 3 inside spots. Sherrod or Newhouse would back-up both OT spots.

And keep the next best two or 3 OL not listed above with of course the rookie draft picks giving a little extra leeway as they're draft picks could have talent and could develop their potential... like Newhouse looked horrible his rookie training camp but showed potential and some growth and they kept him... he turned into a starter.


Of course that again depends on how good Lang is at Center.

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Offline DakotaT  
#64 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2013 8:57:49 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: beast Go to Quoted Post
I think Barclay could be GREAT at OG. ... I wonder how well Lang can play Center... I do like D-Smith but I like Sitton, Lang and Barclay more... and if Lang can play Center and you can get all three of them in there at once might be very good OL.

LT: Bulaga
LG: Sitton
OC: Lang / D-Smith
RG: Barclay
RT: Newhouse / Sherrod

D-Smith would probably back-up all 3 inside spots. Sherrod or Newhouse would back-up both OT spots.

And keep the next best two or 3 OL not listed above with of course the rookie draft picks giving a little extra leeway as they're draft picks could have talent and could develop their potential... like Newhouse looked horrible his rookie training camp but showed potential and some growth and they kept him... he turned into a starter.


Of course that again depends on how good Lang is at Center.



Before we etch these guys into the starting lineup, we should probably see if the rookies can play. I remember guys like Tauscher and Timmerman stepping in day 1 and taking over, which is what I hope we have. It looks like there will be some fire lit under some asses this year in training camp. I would say only Sitton and Bulaga are guaranteed spots.

Love the take on Barclay at guard, Beast. I like when people think outside the box a little bit.
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Offline nerdmann  
#65 Posted : Sunday, May 5, 2013 12:39:16 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Before we etch these guys into the starting lineup, we should probably see if the rookies can play. I remember guys like Tauscher and Timmerman stepping in day 1 and taking over, which is what I hope we have. It looks like there will be some fire lit under some asses this year in training camp. I would say only Sitton and Bulaga are guaranteed spots.

Love the take on Barclay at guard, Beast. I like when people think outside the box a little bit.


Barclay and van Roten are projected as G's. Although van Roten can apparently also play C. Might even beat out EDS.
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Offline wpr  
#66 Posted : Sunday, May 5, 2013 6:12:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Before we etch these guys into the starting lineup, we should probably see if the rookies can play. I remember guys like Tauscher and Timmerman stepping in day 1 and taking over, which is what I hope we have. It looks like there will be some fire lit under some asses this year in training camp. I would say only Sitton and Bulaga are guaranteed spots.

Love the take on Barclay at guard, Beast. I like when people think outside the box a little bit.


I would love to have Barclay at G. But I am a little concerned about LT. Lang and Barclay > Barclay and Newhouse.
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Offline buckeyepackfan  
#67 Posted : Sunday, May 5, 2013 6:35:24 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Maybe in hindsight, sure, but the Jeff Saturday signing seemed to perk up most Packers fans - link.


Hindsight is all we can go by right now, The Packers have veteran, experienced guys at all 5 positions going into TC.

Plug these guys in wherever, but keep them together as a unit.

Learn by your mistakes.

The o-line is a 5 guy unit working together, nothing new here, it's been said a thousand times, moving guys in and out and changing positions is only going to cause problems.

SET YOUR LINE AND KEEP IT TOGETHER!!!
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Offline sschind  
#68 Posted : Sunday, May 5, 2013 12:38:38 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
I don't really see any of the rookies beating Lang


You are most likely right about that. My hope was that one of them would step up big time and we could have Lang as an extremely versatile backup at several positions.

I respect your right to have your opinion but that doesn't mean I agree with it or respect you for having it.
Offline dfosterf  
#69 Posted : Sunday, May 5, 2013 4:42:10 PM(UTC)
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I read the article at JSOnline, came here to see what you guys thought of it...

...thinking many would LOVE IT like I do, based on the information and history of the assorted pieces of the "puzzle" of an offensive line (especially ours).

I hate to always be contrarian, it is not my intent, but I LIKE THESE MOVES---- ALOT.

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Offline play2win  
#70 Posted : Sunday, May 5, 2013 4:49:36 PM(UTC)
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I do believe our OL woes last year had more to do with these two factors:

1. Jeff Saturday hitting the proverbial wall.

2. Mike McCarthy's treatment of the run in his play calling as a secondary element for much of the first half of the 2012 season.

Saturday's collapse was big trouble in the middle of our offense. We were counting on a good level of proficiency there, and it just was not there. That fall off in play adversely affected our passing and running games.

McCarthy spent a good 5 or 6 weeks treating the run as something akin to that which he did not really want to do. After the IND game, I believe public outcry forced him to run more, regardless of the results in yds gained. It worked, for a while, until we faced the Giants, where a failure to establish a sound rushing attack resulted in an onslaught of sacks, hits and hurries to Rodgers.

Yeah, we had injuries too, but we had personnel who could have done a better job had they been coached properly, and made to run block more effectively. That is my own opinion.

I believe we will be far better with both of those factors from 2012 eliminated. With running the football more of an emphasis in our scheme, I feel the pass blocking will automatically improve, and our effectiveness on offense could go through the roof.

Taking our best OL over to Rodgers' blindside is smart, given that we don't have a top veteran talent to take over LT. Competition at RT and at C will be good for our team moving forward.
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Offline porky88  
#71 Posted : Sunday, May 5, 2013 5:12:51 PM(UTC)
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I wanted to let this news digest before commenting. I’ve always felt Bryan Bulaga could play left tackle. It’s been my opinion of him since 2010’s draft. I actually thought Buffalo would take him in the top 10 because of this reason. I also think he’s incredibly underrated. He had his worst game on Monday night football, which is why so many feel unsure about him. That’s a false evaluation, though. Beyond that half of football, he’s been rock solid for the better part of his last 20 games. He’s a fine technician and has experience playing the position, so I think they can make it work.

I do worry, though, that a very good right tackle sometimes makes for an average left tackle. Average would look good right now on the left side, but that’s unfair to Bulaga’s development. The Ravens face similar problems with Michael Oher. He doesn’t have the feet to play left tackle. He’s a great right tackle, but moving him around has hindered his growth.

Sitton is such a great player that I don’t foresee an issue with him moving to left guard. He’s a great run blocker and protector. He’s a whale stuck in the pond (the pond being Green Bay’s o-line). I also understand the concept of shoring up the left side. That’s Aaron Rodgers’ blindside. If you’re going to have a weakness, then have it on the right side, so Rodgers can see the pressure and react more quickly.

My feelings on Lang have soured. He was solid in 2011, but below average last year. He's always been versatile. He’s played both tackle positions and now both guard positions. I think the transition will affect him the least, but he doesn't have the most to lose.

Overall, it’s good to get Marshall Newhouse out of Aaron Rodgers’ blindside. He’s just not a very good starter, in my assessment. I’d like to see him as a backup swing player. This really helps David Bakhtiari. He’s a good pass protector with left tackle footwork. He just doesn’t have left tackle size. I think they’ll allow him to compete at right tackle and he’s capable of winning that job. The wild card is Sherrod. If he’s healthy, then right tackle isn’t a bad spot for him. Perhaps you could slide Bakhtiari inside to push Lang and have Sherrod settle at right tackle. That’d be almost the best scenario, as Lang needs pushing.

I like to refrain from May predictions, but I could see Bulaga, Sitton, EDS, Lang, and Bakhtiari as the week one starting offensive line. That represents improvement, but there's a big onus on that right side.

Message modified by user Sunday, May 5, 2013 5:51:14 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline nerdmann  
#72 Posted : Sunday, May 5, 2013 5:22:00 PM(UTC)
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Bulaga has played well at LT before. They moved him to RT, because he has "shorter arms" than Sherrod. Sherrod has a cutout of his hands at the Packers HoF, because he is the largest man on the team.

No reason Bulaga can't get it done. In fact the reason they moved him over was to solidify that side.

I see a rookie beating out EDS at C and Newhouse getting challenged at RT.
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Offline dfosterf  
#73 Posted : Sunday, May 5, 2013 5:44:03 PM(UTC)
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I like all these thoughts. I also think it would be a positive to mix things up a bit, for a couple of reasons.

We may get some positive results with different looks for the various d linemen we face. One d might lineman have our previous o lineman "figured out"- notsomuch with a new, equally competent one, with perhaps different weaknesses and "tendencies".

I totally agree about the Saturday comments. I think Shawn spoke of the "unit" . Saturday's play set us back, imo. He was out of gas. Great career, respect it, not for us, though, it happens- Don't blame Ted for that try.

These guys are not going to forget how to play their old positions, so we can always shuffle back as needed, and the time to try these moves is now, as regards the 2013 season- I did hear and feel Shawn on the "continuity" thing, but we have to think pluses and minuses, and this shit is not working, it is killing us on offense and defense-- we need a ground-control-element, and we need to protect the Green Bay Packers entire identity in one Aaron Rodgers, and that is very little overstatement.

This may work, imo, and that is encouraging, to me, as a close follower of our offensive line play.
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Online Mucky Tundra  
#74 Posted : Sunday, May 5, 2013 5:52:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
I see a rookie beating out EDS at C and Newhouse getting challenged at RT.


While I think EDS will start out the year at C, I don't see him lasting all 16 games there. It'd be nice if one of the rookies or last years backups focused solely on being a 'dedicated' C with no moving around.

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Offline nerdmann  
#75 Posted : Sunday, May 5, 2013 6:29:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra Go to Quoted Post
While I think EDS will start out the year at C, I don't see him lasting all 16 games there. It'd be nice if one of the rookies or last years backups focused solely on being a 'dedicated' C with no moving around.



LOL, we all know THAT ain't happening.

As for Saturday, blame Ted all you want, but we got more out of him than the Rams got out of Wells. We still came out ahead, imo.
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