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Offline wpr  
#106 Posted : Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:15:36 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: porky88 Go to Quoted Post
The Seminole Tribe of Florida has an excellent relationship with Florida State University. When the issue first arose, the university met with the tribe and they hashed out an agreement. I believe the tribe even picked the mascot and approved of the pregame ceremony. In addition, the pregame ceremony represents an actual warrior, who is 100% real with a well-established past. Frankly, it serves as an example as to how poorly Daniel Snyder and his predecessors have handled the issue. It also serves as an example on how some of the team names above could rectify the issue by sitting down and hashing out a legitimate agreement.

For what it's worth, this could be how the issue gets resolved. It will most certainly not please everybody (that's impossible), but they could definitely follow the Florida State template with it.


CA$H

edit- I was pretty sure it was a FSU student who portrays Chief Osceola.

Quote:
The Durham family personally selects and trains both the rider and horse, and coordinates the tradition with oversight by the university. Students portraying Osceola must undertake a two-year apprenticeship,


this doesn't mean they are or are not members of the Seminole tribe. there has been no word on the race of the horse who portrays the Appaloosa Renegade. My money is on it being a Mustang costume.
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Zero2Cool on 11/7/2013(UTC)
Offline wpr  
#107 Posted : Thursday, November 7, 2013 12:40:15 PM(UTC)
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Instead of honoring Red Cloud a Plains Indian if they have to change their name it should reflect someone or something from their local.
The tribe that lived in the DC area was called the Nacotchtank variants including Nacostine, Anacostine, Anaquashtank, Nacothtant, Nachatanke etc., is said to mean "Trading village".

They were a part of the Piscataway tribe. I saw the Conoy tribe mentioned as well.

They were an Algonquian tribe.
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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Offline porky88  
#108 Posted : Thursday, November 7, 2013 3:29:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
CA$H

edit- I was pretty sure it was a FSU student who portrays Chief Osceola.

this doesn't mean they are or are not members of the Seminole tribe. there has been no word on the race of the horse who portrays the Appaloosa Renegade. My money is on it being a Mustang costume.

The warrior I was referring to is Chief Osceola and not the actual person portraying him. The student goes through a two-year program, which includes training from the tribe. I believe the money they get comes from merchandising rights.

This is in stark contrast with the Washington Redskins, who are named in honor of a head coach whose ethnicity is unsubstantiated. Plus, he spent just two years with the team. It’s an apples and oranges situation, in my opinion. One took into account the sensitivities at hand, while the other swept them under the rug.
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#109 Posted : Thursday, November 7, 2013 4:13:54 PM(UTC)
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Honestly, the shit Dakota dragged into the discussion was a lot more interesting that this.
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Offline DakotaT  
#110 Posted : Thursday, November 7, 2013 5:41:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
Honestly, the sh!t Dakota dragged into the discussion was a lot more interesting that this.


I'm going to take a long vacation and just lurk - without me stirring the pot - this is some boring ass shit.
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Offline wpr  
#111 Posted : Thursday, November 7, 2013 9:35:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: porky88 Go to Quoted Post
The warrior I was referring to is Chief Osceola and not the actual person portraying him. The student goes through a two-year program, which includes training from the tribe. I believe the money they get comes from merchandising rights.

This is in stark contrast with the Washington Redskins, who are named in honor of a head coach whose ethnicity is unsubstantiated. Plus, he spent just two years with the team. It’s an apples and oranges situation, in my opinion. One took into account the sensitivities at hand, while the other swept them under the rug.


Bull. The only reason FSU sat down and talked was because the NCAA would have pulled the plug on the name without tribal support.

As far was where the money comes from does that really matter? FSU is pulling it out of their pocket and handing it to the Seminoles. It nothing more than a bribe or hush money.
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Offline porky88  
#112 Posted : Friday, November 8, 2013 12:05:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
Bull. The only reason FSU sat down and talked was because the NCAA would have pulled the plug on the name without tribal support.

As far was where the money comes from does that really matter? FSU is pulling it out of their pocket and handing it to the Seminoles. It nothing more than a bribe or hush money.

The NCAA only threatened Florida State in 2005 after they initiated a new policy, which involved several programs. Maybe the NCAA was serious about acting against FSU, but nothing really came from it. They gave FSU an exemption, in large part because the program took care of this in the late ‘70s. It was nonsensical to include them in ‘05, but I think every situation is different. I don’t look at this as something related to different issues. It seems that many do. I think it’s a case-by-case scenario.

Florida State started the tradition in the ‘70s after working with the local tribe. Despite your claim, at the time, I believe they weren't facing any discipline or threats from the NCAA. The so-called bribe money is also relatively small. They receive 1% from merchandizing sales. They also cut tuition costs and provide scholarships for tribal students who attend the university. If I’m to understand correctly, it’s not a very big tribe, and they still need to meet the regular requirements to get into the school.

Regardless, the point being they probably could’ve done nothing, but they recognized it was a local issue and actually stepped out of the bubble to listen to the other side's story. Did it please everybody? Nope. But it resolved the situation. Daniel Snyder could learn from that.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#113 Posted : Friday, November 8, 2013 6:17:38 AM(UTC)
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The added information about Seminoles and the agreement adds an excellent interesting twist to this topic. I don't see the Native Americans wanting a dime for the use of Redskins. I'd like to see them work something out, but if they are claiming "redskin" is equal to "nigger", I don't see them ever working out a deal.


Read the definitions of those two words sometime. Quite interesting.

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