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Offline OlHoss1884  
#1 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 12:26:31 PM(UTC)
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So it looks like Pickett Raji and Jones get pencilled in as the starters, and I have heard Worthy might be PUP to start the year. I have a good feeling about Jolly, to be honest, and Neal should be good to go as well. That outs Daniels, Wilson Boyd and Miller in the mix for 2 spots? I don't see carrying more than 6 D-Line.

If Neal is 100% and Jolly can still play (I think he can) then I see the Line as a position of strength, and I think with more rotation, Raji and Pickett will both play better.
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Offline nerdmann  
#2 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 12:54:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: OlHoss1884 Go to Quoted Post
So it looks like Pickett Raji and Jones get pencilled in as the starters, and I have heard Worthy might be PUP to start the year. I have a good feeling about Jolly, to be honest, and Neal should be good to go as well. That outs Daniels, Wilson Boyd and Miller in the mix for 2 spots? I don't see carrying more than 6 D-Line.

If Neal is 100% and Jolly can still play (I think he can) then I see the Line as a position of strength, and I think with more rotation, Raji and Pickett will both play better.


It's a position of depth. They have to prove their strengths.
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Offline Laser Gunns  
#3 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 12:57:14 PM(UTC)
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If we really are committed to getting bigger and stronger than I think Danials ( despite his flashes last year) does not make the team.


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Offline greengold  
#4 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:00:14 PM(UTC)
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I have penciled in Raji, Pickett, D.Jones, Daniels, Neal, and C.J.Wilson for my 6. Hopefully they can stash Peňa and Boyd on the practice squad and Worthy on IR.

I think Jolly and Miller have an uphill climb, but, that's why we have training camp and preseason to evaluate! Wanna Box?
Offline go.pack.go.  
#5 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 4:42:03 PM(UTC)
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Plenty of depth there. It'd be nice if we could keep them all. But I guess this is a good problem to have. Hope the coaching staff makes the right decisions.
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Offline nerdmann  
#6 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 6:43:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: go.pack.go. Go to Quoted Post
Plenty of depth there. It'd be nice if we could keep them all. But I guess this is a good problem to have. Hope the coaching staff makes the right decisions.


There'll be an injury or two. It'll sort itself out.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#7 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:21:28 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: OlHoss1884 Go to Quoted Post
So it looks like Pickett Raji and Jones get pencilled in as the starters, and I have heard Worthy might be PUP to start the year. I have a good feeling about Jolly, to be honest, and Neal should be good to go as well. That outs Daniels, Wilson Boyd and Miller in the mix for 2 spots? I don't see carrying more than 6 D-Line.

If Neal is 100% and Jolly can still play (I think he can) then I see the Line as a position of strength, and I think with more rotation, Raji and Pickett will both play better.


Good Analysis.

This position has gone from crap to significant chance of very good - kinda like RB.

I also tend to favor Neal as fourth in the rotation, and I have a good (although unwarranted) feeling about Jolly. Daniels hustles, but all the weight room stuff ain't gonna make him taller. Boyd probably is the future big body. I never cared much for Wilson. Miller hadn't even crossed my mind. So what you said with Daniels and Boyd getting the final two spots.

As Nerdman said, injuries could have a lot to do with it also.

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Offline Mucky Tundra  
#8 Posted : Thursday, May 16, 2013 7:45:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RajiRoar Go to Quoted Post
If we really are committed to getting bigger and stronger than I think Danials ( despite his flashes last year) does not make the team.


I'm inclined to agree with this. Daniels certainly hustles on every play but seems a little on the small side to be a run stuffer and I'm not sure he brings enough to the pass rush. It seems like everyone on the DL excels at one thing more than another. Daniels doesn't seem to excel at anything at the moment (could change come TC)

Originally Posted by: greengold Go to Quoted Post
Hopefully they can stash Peňa and Boyd on the practice squad and Worthy on IR.Wanna Box?


The thing with Pena is, at age 26 would it be worth putting him on the PS to develop for a year? Seems a little old for a development project given the limited shelf life of big, run stuffing d-linemen in the NFL.
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Offline play2win  
#9 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 4:42:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: greengold Go to Quoted Post
I have penciled in Raji, Pickett, D.Jones, Daniels, Neal, and C.J.Wilson for my 6. Hopefully they can stash Peňa and Boyd on the practice squad and Worthy on IR.

I think Jolly and Miller have an uphill climb, but, that's why we have training camp and preseason to evaluate! Wanna Box?


Hey greengold,
I do think it is tough to call who makes it, but I feel there is no way Josh Boyd doesn't make this roster. I've got a feeling they will keep 7 on the DL this year, and the biggest battle may be between Johnny Jolly, Mike Daniels and CJ Wilson.

My 7 would be: Raji, Pickett, Datone Jones, Mike Neal, Josh Boyd, Johnny Jolly and Mike Daniels.

Our DL wore out last year with poor rotations. We just didn't have the right personnel. This year, I think we can work a solid rotation, and keep our D linemen fresh. With the way we got run on last year, I think it is clear we have to keep an extra lineman on D. I think that would be smart.
Offline steveishere  
#10 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 6:29:34 AM(UTC)
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I think it'll be Raji, Pickett, Jones, Neal, Daniels, Boyd (Wilson if they keep 7) and Worthy starting on the PUP. I also think Raji will keep playing more DE like he was the 2nd half of last year when he started playing better. He's not nearly as good at playing 2 gap in the middle as Pickett but he's a much better pass rusher. I think a good base starting lineup is Jones/Pickett/Raji. That IMO would maximize run d abilities and pass rush. Neal and Daniels were 2 of the more promising pass rushers last year and would look good in the Nickle lineup as the inside guys. Wilson is a good reliable back up to have and I'm excited to see Boyd too because he seems like he might be able to play DE or back up at NT.
Offline Pack93z  
#11 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 7:18:06 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: greengold Go to Quoted Post
I have penciled in Raji, Pickett, D.Jones, Daniels, Neal, and C.J.Wilson for my 6. Hopefully they can stash Peňa and Boyd on the practice squad and Worthy on IR.

I think Jolly and Miller have an uphill climb, but, that's why we have training camp and preseason to evaluate! Wanna Box?


My opinion.. unless Neal really pops out in camp and shows a ton, his past failures to remain available and effective will cost him a spot if someone else is even close to him in terms of a impact. He is near the boot zone.

Worthy will be on the PUP IMO.. and will be given every opportunity to make an impact this season. But we will not count towards the 53 coming out of camp.

If Jolly still has it.. there is no way he isn't on the roster. IMO. That is a big if though.

It will be fun to watch Boyd battle his way to a spot.. interesting prospect IMO.

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Zero2Cool  
#12 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 7:20:08 AM(UTC)
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DL is vastly overrated. Focus on improving the backend and the linebackers. Fatties can be picked up anywhere to occupy space.
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Offline Pack93z  
#13 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 7:28:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
DL is vastly overrated. Focus on improving the backend and the linebackers. Fatties can be picked up anywhere to occupy space.


Disagree immensely.. both the defensive and offensive lines are the life blood of any team. If you control the point of attack, everything else will fall into place regardless of the talent levels behind them.

That is QB speak there.. lol.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Zero2Cool  
#14 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 7:33:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Disagree immensely.. both the defensive and offensive lines are the life blood of any team. If you control the point of attack, everything else will fall into place regardless of the talent levels behind them.

That is QB speak there.. lol.


A good QB, solid WR corp and top notch secondary will beat a good OL and DL every Sunday.
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Offline play2win  
#15 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 7:38:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
DL is vastly overrated. Focus on improving the backend and the linebackers. Fatties can be picked up anywhere to occupy space.


I don't believe there is a single DB or LB on our team who would agree with this statement Z, but I like your style.

I'm really glad we aren't talking about Muir or Mehrling...

We only had two DL that we could really count on these last two seasons, and that is Raji and Pickett. Everybody else purely sucked, and it showed. Bigtime. Two of our worst defensive years statistically in NFL history. We made freaking history for our inept D two years in a row.

Think the Ravens would have won the SB with Philipp Mehrling in place of Suggs? Muir in place of Ngata? What about the Giants and Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora, Chris Canty, Jason Pierre-Paul, Rocky Bernard? Do they WIN a SB without those players? Hell no.
Offline beast  
#16 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 11:22:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: OlHoss1884 Go to Quoted Post
So it looks like Pickett Raji and Jones get pencilled in as the starters, and I have heard Worthy might be PUP to start the year. I have a good feeling about Jolly, to be honest, and Neal should be good to go as well. That outs Daniels, Wilson Boyd and Miller in the mix for 2 spots? I don't see carrying more than 6 D-Line.

If Neal is 100% and Jolly can still play (I think he can) then I see the Line as a position of strength, and I think with more rotation, Raji and Pickett will both play better.


Okay lots of questions...

Did the Packers pencil in a rookie (Jones) to start or are you just guess? ... IMO you should NEVER pencil in a rookie, make them earn it.

Also you said only 6 ...
But you named 5 guys and said 2 more spots (which is 7)
so yeah the numbers aren't adding up in my mind.

Is Jolly even in Wisconsin yet? ... last I heard Mike McCarthy said he's not and he's still working though stuff.... I don't know but I'm guessing the Packers have Jolly going though some rehab both for the drug and work out getting his body back in playing shape (because lets be honest, those heavy DTs don't stay in shape when not active in the game or have someone to help push them.... plus _?_ how many years Jolly missed... and that he's never played in the 3-4... I'm guessing the Packers are going to try to get some sort of red shirt year for Jolly if possible.

Originally Posted by: RajiRoar Go to Quoted Post
If we really are committed to getting bigger and stronger than I think Danials ( despite his flashes last year) does not make the team.


Daniels is short but he's very strong and the only guy who sometimes was moving forward against the 49ers (Pickett is the only guy who didn't get pushed back at all...)
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Offline play2win  
#17 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 11:48:55 AM(UTC)
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Daniels has fight in him. I like that kind of play, and I am guessing he may be able to stick.

CJ Wilson has been a bit of a disappointment, but then, so was Jarius Wynn. If all you can do is tackle, and you can't offer anything rushing the passer... 3.5 sacks in 3 years? Really?

Daniels picked up a couple sacks his first year, 12 solo tackles, 2 FRs, 1 PD, and a couple of stuffs. That was in some pretty limited action. I'm very interested to see how he progresses this season. This guy was a team captain at Iowa, ranked #3 overall in the Big Ten in sacks his senior year. He'll stick.
Offline beast  
#18 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 11:50:40 AM(UTC)
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The Packers always have kept 6 DL right after camp. They did have a number of injuries one year and brought up a 7th guy and kept him to the end of the year. So there is probably going to be 6 spots on DL... though with Pickett, Neal, Wilson and maybe Raji's contracts up at the end of this year (or the year after that in Raji's case), I've been thinking they might keep 7 just to make the transition to next year easier.

Locks: Pickett, Raji, Jones,

Maybe: Wilson, Neal, Boyd, Daniels

PUP/IR: Worthy

Other: Jolly

If they feel like they can give the DL a 7th spot, I would just keep all of the Locks and Maybes. Pickett, Wilson and Neal contracts are up at the end of the year and one or two of them probably aren't going to get resigned unless they're all cheap.


If we go with 6, I'd say cut Wilson or Neal (maybe Pickett but probably not).

Pickett is consistent as can be, clearly the best run clogger the Packers have. But isn't able to get much push in pass rush normally. But he's getting up there in age.

Wilson is like kind of like a younger worse version of Pickett, who's not as good in run clogging but a little tad better in pass rush, which might be replaced by Boyd.

Neal is the total opposite, he's a VERY good pass rusher at times but isn't consistent at all, which might be replaced by Jones.
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Online DakotaT  
#19 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 11:57:21 AM(UTC)
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Why do we always hammer away at our base defense when we are in subpackages most of the time. The only time Pickett and Raji should be on the field together is in short yardage situations. The formation I'm excited to see is the two down lineman with Jones, Neal or Raji - and Clay and Perry rushing from the outside. When we can get pressure with the front four, then our playmakers in the secondary can start doing their thing. If we can't get any pressure our defense will continue its path of the last couple years. Jones and Perry are really the key to the whole thing.
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Offline beast  
#20 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 1:03:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Why do we always hammer away at our base defense when we are in subpackages most of the time.


Because if you don't stop the offense in the base defense then you don't get to subpackages (unless the offense goes to clearly passing formations) like in the playoffs, the 49ers ran all over the Packers in base defense... you don't go to those sub packages to stop the run (other than maybe goal line package).

Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
The only time Pickett and Raji should be on the field together is in short yardage situations.


I disagree. The Packers have different packages (even when in base defense) depending on the call.. in the traditional 3-4 defense (which is more conservative with their DL) they basically have three NTs (usually it's one huge NT and two mini NTs playing 3-4 DE). Which fits Pickett perfectly and he can play any where on the line in that. And Raji is Wilson have been getting the start in that as well.

Now when they go to the non-traditional DL packages such as the Phillips 3-4 defense (named after Bum Phillip I think) they ask their 3-4 DEs to be more aggressive and pass rush more (which leaves the LB un-protected) Pickett shouldn't be at DE for that. Though they have run that some in the past with Pickett at NT and Raji at DE.

And sometimes I've wondered if the Packers might be best running a 3-4 defense like Wade Phillips did in Dallas. Both DEs are asked to play traditional and protect the LB... while the NT (Raji in the Packers case) was asked to get up the field and into the back field as fast as possible.

Of course Capers doesn't seem to be interested in that and with Jones added I'd stay away from that more. But I thought it might of worked best with Raji and Daniels .

Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
The formation I'm excited to see is the two down lineman with Jones, Neal or Raji - and Clay and Perry rushing from the outside.


Totally agree... I'm hoping that guys like Jones, Raji, Daniels and maybe Neal can pick it up in the 2-4 nickel / dime packages.
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Offline nerdmann  
#21 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 2:58:01 PM(UTC)
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Yeah the less I hear about Jolly being IN TOWN and working hard to get ready, the more skeptical I become about his whole situation.
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Offline OlHoss1884  
#22 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 3:29:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: beast Go to Quoted Post
Okay lots of questions...

Did the Packers pencil in a rookie (Jones) to start or are you just guess? ... IMO you should NEVER pencil in a rookie, make them earn it.

Also you said only 6 ...
But you named 5 guys and said 2 more spots (which is 7)
so yeah the numbers aren't adding up in my mind.

Is Jolly even in Wisconsin yet? ... last I heard Mike McCarthy said he's not and he's still working though stuff.... I don't know but I'm guessing the Packers have Jolly going though some rehab both for the drug and work out getting his body back in playing shape (because lets be honest, those heavy DTs don't stay in shape when not active in the game or have someone to help push them.... plus _?_ how many years Jolly missed... and that he's never played in the 3-4... I'm guessing the Packers are going to try to get some sort of red shirt year for Jolly if possible.

Daniels is short but he's very strong and the only guy who sometimes was moving forward against the 49ers (Pickett is the only guy who didn't get pushed back at all...)


1. I pencilled in Jones by my own prognostication. I don't think it's much of a risk to pencil in a rookie when he was drafted that high and plays a position that was weak last year. Clearly the team won't pencil him in until he DOES earn it.

2. I kind of messed up my numbers but I think they will keep 7, since I think they will work on Boyd as the eventual replacement for Pickett. However, I am also an optimist about Jolly though I know a lot of people aren't.

3. Jolly has been working out in Texas, and he's not in WI yet for legal reasons...he's trying toi verify with his PO that he is legal to go and won't havfe any issues with the state. I think this whole episode has been a wakeup call for him and I am optimistic about his attitude and condition. The question is whether the long layoff will make him to rusty to make the roster, but that might, in the end, be more a matter of numbers. If they go with 6 and Boyd looks like the next Jolly (on the field) he might not make the cut.

4. I don't think Daniels is all that bad, but I think I like him (and Neal) for depth, not as regulars. I just don't think the team is enamored enough of him or even Neal or Wilson at this point to guarantee anything. Assuming Boyd makes it. that's 3 spots with run stuffers and 1 (Jones) who is purported to be a pass rusher, so it might make sense to keep players that either have more versatility or at least can push the pocket more, hence my optimism about Jolly.

All in all I think it's a nice problem to have...6 or 7 spots and more NFL caliber players to fill them.
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Offline beast  
#23 Posted : Friday, May 17, 2013 5:34:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: OlHoss1884 Go to Quoted Post
1. I pencilled in Jones by my own prognostication. I don't think it's much of a risk to pencil in a rookie when he was drafted that high and plays a position that was weak last year. Clearly the team won't pencil him in until he DOES earn it.

Mike McCarthy has penciled a couple 1st rounders in as starters right away including DT Harrell and OT Sherrod (at LG) and I've had a problem with it every time. I just don't like the message it sends to any of the players, make the guys come in and earn that spot. I think both of those guys lost it... I think Jennings was forced to earn it and earned as a rookie in training camp though he's learning curve or ability is clearly different than a normal rookie.


Originally Posted by: OlHoss1884 Go to Quoted Post
2. I kind of messed up my numbers but I think they will keep 7, since I think they will work on Boyd as the eventual replacement for Pickett. However, I am also an optimist about Jolly though I know a lot of people aren't.


Yeah I'm thinking the keep 7 for a change when the norm is 6. Because Neal, Wilson and Pickett are all FAs at the end of the year. So keeping more with make the switch over easier. Unless one of them is the 7th guy than maybe just cut them now?

Originally Posted by: OlHoss1884 Go to Quoted Post
3. Jolly has been working out in Texas, and he's not in WI yet for legal reasons...he's trying toi verify with his PO that he is legal to go and won't havfe any issues with the state. I think this whole episode has been a wakeup call for him and I am optimistic about his attitude and condition. The question is whether the long layoff will make him to rusty to make the roster, but that might, in the end, be more a matter of numbers. If they go with 6 and Boyd looks like the next Jolly (on the field) he might not make the cut.


Thanks, I didn't know all of that. That makes me feel a little better that he's staying away to make sure he's legally allowed to come instead of some other reason (I didn't know why). And totally agree with you about the wake-up call with his attitude...

But that being said he's a 30 year old man, who was a bit over weight DT while working with the team, who's been out of football for four years, and more athletic guys like CB Adam (Pac-Man) Jones and QB Mike Vick have come back and weren't the same their first year back. I think Jolly can possible get back in form... I'm just thinking it won't be in his first year back (but you never know).


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