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Laser Gunns  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 11:43:08 AM(UTC)
The timing makes no sense...

If his injury was not healing up to par, he would have been cut along with DJ Smith for failing a physical.

If it is money... Why? We are under cap now, there is no reason to make a move for the sake of saving cash at the expense of losing a starting ILB... Unless Ted is making room for an extension on another player.

The extension must already be on the table too, because with Pickett's contract coming off after this season, there would be more room to handle it at the end of the season.
play2win  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 11:48:58 AM(UTC)
RajiRoar said: Go to Quoted Post
The timing makes no sense...

If his injury was not healing up to par, he would have been cut along with DJ Smith for failing a physical.

If it is money... Why? We are under cap now, there is no reason to make a move for the sake of saving cash at the expense of losing a starting ILB... Unless Ted is making room for an extension on another player.

The extension must already be on the table too, because with Pickett's contract coming off after this season, there would be more room to handle it at the end of the season.


Raji.
beast  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 11:54:37 AM(UTC)


I think it's simply scheme change and Jones stepping up. Packers changed up their scheme last year asking the ILB to do more sideline to sideline stuff and Bishop lack speed to start with and then injuries... and they like Hawk and Jones a lot more than the public does. And in the old scheme Hawk like Pickett did a lot of dirty work to set up other guys to make plays by taking on blocks and doing other things. Then gets 3 sacks in his first season in the changed scheme.

Also I think it's been said they're trying to get him to take a reduced deal. So maybe he'll stick around if he agrees to a reduced deal like Hawk did.

But they got a number of guys going to be FAs this upcoming FA

Raji, Pickett, Burnett, D-Smith, Shields, Neal, Wilson, Starks, James Jones?

Raji, Burnett, Shields and D-Smith are probably locks to get new deals with the Packers. And maybe Neal too.
DoddPower  
#24 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 11:57:15 AM(UTC)
RajiRoar said: Go to Quoted Post
If it is money... Why? We are under cap now, there is no reason to make a move for the sake of saving cash at the expense of losing a starting ILB... Unless Ted is making room for an extension on another player.


I'm assuming this is the reason, whether it's for Raji, Sheilds (can he ever be resigned this season?), Burnett, Neal, Bulaga, or some other player that Ted hopes to extend.

DoddPower  
#25 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 11:59:36 AM(UTC)
beast said: Go to Quoted Post
I think it's simply scheme change and Jones stepping up. Packers changed up their scheme last year asking the ILB to do more sideline to sideline stuff and Bishop lack speed to start with and then injuries... and they like Hawk and Jones a lot more than the public does. And in the old scheme Hawk like Pickett did a lot of dirty work to set up other guys to make plays by taking on blocks and doing other things. Then gets 3 sacks in his first season in the changed scheme.

Also I think it's been said they're trying to get him to take a reduced deal. So maybe he'll stick around if he agrees to a reduced deal like Hawk did.

But they got a number of guys going to be FAs this upcoming FA

Raji, Pickett, Burnett, D-Smith, Shields, Neal, Wilson, Starks, James Jones?

Raji, Burnett, Shields and D-Smith are probably locks to get new deals with the Packers. And maybe Neal too.


I really only seem to hear about this change of scheme for the LB's from your posts. Is there some other discussion regarding this that I can read about? I suppose I don't feel as confident about the statements are you do.
nerdmann  
#26 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 12:53:12 PM(UTC)
Maybe they just don't think he's very good.
steveishere  
#27 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 1:04:38 PM(UTC)
It doesn't make much sense for all their talk of wanting to get more physical
wpr  
#28 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 1:13:00 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Maybe they just don't think he's very good.


wow. is that why? I never would have guessed that they would release a player if they thought he was very good. [grin1]

Obviously it is the amount of money he is being paid verses what they view is his skill level.
nerdmann  
#29 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 1:18:58 PM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
wow. is that why? I never would have guessed that they would release a player if they thought he was very good. [grin1]

Obviously it is the amount of money he is being paid verses what they view is his skill level.


Could just be the injury. Could just be a numbers game. Could be an off-field issue.

We don't know.
wpr  
#30 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 1:47:56 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Could just be the injury. Could just be a numbers game. Could be an off-field issue.

We don't know.


I was just messing with you.

However:
An injury factor relates directly to the team not thinking he is very good.

If they thought he was very good there would not be a numbers issue nor would they ask for him to redo his pay.

There have been other players with off field issues. They were reported in the media. Nothing on Bishop. Other players off field issues did not merit a request for a reduction in pay nor an out right release. (Even Jolly was not released.)
beast  
#31 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 4:00:24 PM(UTC)
doddpower said: Go to Quoted Post
I really only seem to hear about this change of scheme for the LB's from your posts. Is there some other discussion regarding this that I can read about? I suppose I don't feel as confident about the statements are you do.


The closest thing I have is this... from the 2012 offseason. In which Mike McCarthy talks about playing more traditional 3-4 defense in the 2012-13 season and that helping them get to the QB more often. But Capers also played cover 2 more last season than he normally has in the past which also changed up what the LB were doing in coverage because if both Safeties are staying deep someone needs to step it up for the Bigby / Burnett (when Collins was healthy) SS role no longer roaming underneath, which is where the ILB come in.

http://www.jsonline.com/...t-lo4ps3j-145254405.html

article said:
In assessing last season, McCarthy said he thought the defense got too far away from running the traditional 3-4 defense. The year before, when the Packers won the Super Bowl, Capers played about 70% nickel defense because his cornerbacks were playing so well and his pass rush had linebacker Clay Matthews and end Cullen Jenkins leading the charge.

After losing Jenkins in free agency, the Packers never found anyone to take pressure off Matthews and the performance of the secondary dropped dramatically. McCarthy said he found the defense did not react well to the risk-taking opponents who came in and tried to match points with the Packers' prolific offense.

"I've never been this explosive on offense and it's a good lesson for all of us," McCarthy said. "The opposing offense plays with a lot more confidence against your defense just because the fact that your offense is explosive. (They're) like, 'We have to go in there and score 30. It's the only chance we've got.'

"So teams played us extremely aggressive. We need to do a better job of stopping that on defense. We got into a year that we can never get into again on defense."

Part of the solution, McCarthy said, might be getting back to a more traditional 3-4 defense and doing what the scheme was intended to do, which is put pressure on the quarterback.

"Frankly, we were so explosive on offense, maybe we weren't ready, maybe we went to too much sub (nickel)," he said. "We played so much sub defense the last couple of years, we'd like to get back to playing more base and doing some of the things this defense was built on.


Dexter_Sinister  
#32 Posted : Wednesday, June 12, 2013 7:35:17 PM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Maybe they just don't think he's very good.


Huh.

I don't either.
Dulak  
#33 Posted : Thursday, June 13, 2013 1:37:17 AM(UTC)
ok all you brad jones lovers - you can have your brad jones for big money ... lets see how good our inside is without bishop

... steaming at the news ...

play2win  
#34 Posted : Thursday, June 13, 2013 6:25:51 AM(UTC)
While I understand the sentiment regarding Bishop, I'm coming around to the idea that the staff may see him as too high a risk coming off such a severe injury with a big contract. He may never again be the same player we once knew him to be. Maybe he gets cut or restructured. His salary is such that those numbers could go a very long way with so many contracts up at the end of the year. Whatever they decide will probably be more about cap dollars than the player he was prior to injury. I can see the reasoning in this. It is a bummer, as he was one of my favorite Packer defenders.

As for Jones, I am not a fan of his new contract, but, I was impressed that he made some plays last year. Missed a bunch too, and that didn't sit too well with me. I don't see him as having that same kind of nose for the ball like Bishop had, and that is disconcerting. Either Jones shows improvement in his 2nd season inside or another player wins the position battle. For now, it looks like they have him pegged as the #1 ILB along with Hawk. AJ is pretty solid and assignment sure, just lacks a bit in coverage. Jones looks like he might have the tools to succeed inside. The staff certainly thinks so. He ought to be great in coverage with his size and speed, and he's got pass rush ability... I just question the recognition stuff. Maybe year 2 helps him, having a year's experience and a better comfort zone at ILB.

I'm not going to get too bent over this. The rest of the D looks improved from a personnel standpoint, and that should help both players inside, especially with the added talent on the DL. Won't be long and we'll be able to tell more...
DoddPower  
#35 Posted : Thursday, June 13, 2013 8:40:59 AM(UTC)
It's certainly not the end of the world if Bishop gets cut. Besides, the Packers possibly have Bishop 2.0 in Terrell Manning, who is another slower thumper type player (or was in college anyway). I would like to see Bishop back for another season at a cheaper salary, but I doubt he'd stick around longer than that, anyway.

A year too early is better than a year too late.
Zero2Cool  
#36 Posted : Thursday, June 13, 2013 8:52:39 AM(UTC)
Terrell Manning hype machine baffles me. The hasn't shown anything positive. No one wins games because of potential.
play2win  
#37 Posted : Thursday, June 13, 2013 9:18:30 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Terrell Manning hype machine baffles me. The hasn't shown anything positive. No one wins games because of potential.


Yeah, there is a lot of hope. Just like with Nick Perry. I think there was some with Jerel Worthy, but at least he got a bunch of games in. Malumba and Boddington could contend easily for Manning's spot on the roster, if he has one.

Last year we kept 9 LBs on the final 53 man roster. Locks are:

OLB
Matthews, Perry

ILB
Hawk, Jones

That leaves 5 spots between Moses, Manning, Palmer, Barrington, Malumba, Bishop, Francois, Lattimore, Reed and Savage. I would guess the first 5 guys listed stick, Moses and Palmer at OLB, Manning, Barrington and Malumba at ILB. But, I count 5 other players on that list who definitely feel differently, and they will be fighting hard for their shot on the 53.

Manning has shown us nothing. Yet.
DoddPower  
#38 Posted : Thursday, June 13, 2013 12:35:20 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
Terrell Manning hype machine baffles me. The hasn't shown anything positive. No one wins games because of potential.


True, he hasn't accomplished much in the NFL, but I base my opinions off what he showed in college, which was pretty good. What else would one have to go by unless they watch the practices. He was a thumper in college, but as I mentioned, he always seemed kind of slow. Even if he made a good run defender, I think he'd struggle in coverage.

EDIT: And besides, the Packers continually put lots of faith in players that haven't showed much on game day. It's how they operate, so assuming they will do so again with a relatively unproven player to fill Bishops spot isn't much of a stretch. Based on the player Manning was in college and his draft position, I think his roster spot is safe unless he totally bombs out, or gets sick again.
Dexter_Sinister  
#39 Posted : Thursday, June 13, 2013 7:21:21 PM(UTC)
http://www.jsonline.com/...g-ho6usrl-170792686.html

There is a reason we didn't see much out of Manning.

He had a parasite that caused colitis, diarrhea, pain, nausea, loss of appetite and loss of sleep.

He could practice too hard because he would fill his pants. He also lost 15 lbs.
play2win  
#40 Posted : Friday, June 14, 2013 5:57:20 AM(UTC)
Dexter_Sinister said: Go to Quoted Post
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/get-to-know-terrell-manning-ho6usrl-170792686.html

There is a reason we didn't see much out of Manning.

He had a parasite that caused colitis, diarrhea, pain, nausea, loss of appetite and loss of sleep.

He could practice too hard because he would fill his pants. He also lost 15 lbs.


No disparaging him for having suffered through that. He really tried to be on the field. It's just that we won't know what the man can bring to this team till TC and the preseason. I'm hoping for the best for Manning.
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