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Offline nerdmann  
#71 Posted : Wednesday, June 19, 2013 1:35:53 PM(UTC)
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doddpower said: Go to Quoted Post
I think James Campen is invincible or something. I just don't get it. How many years of average at best--and often horrible--offensive line play must the Packers endure before they try another coach? I would think it would be difficult to get an offensive line coach that was MUCH worse, and they could likely get one that was better. Hmpf.

Campy


Breaking a rookie's ankle on a fumble drill should have been the final straw.
Offline DoddPower  
#72 Posted : Wednesday, June 19, 2013 2:15:47 PM(UTC)
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nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Breaking a rookie's ankle on a fumble drill should have been the final straw.


The final straw should have been pulled some time ago, imo.

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nerdmann on 6/19/2013(UTC)
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#73 Posted : Wednesday, June 19, 2013 2:43:06 PM(UTC)
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play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
The patience to run the ball consistently.

Man, that is what I am looking for this season. Running successfully is a mindset, established by the HC/OC. Wear teams the F out. That's what I am after. Do this, and Rodgers will be able to complete anything he wants in the passing game.


Cart before the horse.

Running the ball consistently without the ability to run effectively is going to put them in 3rd and long. It is going to come up short when you need to rely on it. 3rd & short, goal line and protecting a 4th quarter lead.

What I am looking for is the ability to run the ball effectively.
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#74 Posted : Wednesday, June 19, 2013 2:47:42 PM(UTC)
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Dodd, they were right exactly in the middle of the league in rushing attempts.

Juuuust enough to pass, or juuuust a normal amount.
Offline macbob  
#75 Posted : Wednesday, June 19, 2013 8:02:19 PM(UTC)
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Dexter_Sinister said: Go to Quoted Post
In the Seattle game, the 8 sacks and a couple penalties in the first half putting then in long downs kind of forced them to pass on a few drives. Out of the 5 they had in the first half.

They also looked like they were trying to supplement the running game with short passes to Benson and the TEs. (like a WCO).

We didn't run for 2 series in the playoff game playing from behind. The "entire half" is an exaggeration. The last drive doesn't count.

My point being that basing the argument that McCarthey doesn't want to run on a small handful of drives where you don't even know the play call is not a credible argument to me. You don't know what the call was and you don't know what the D alignment was. You can't say they made a mistake because all you really know is how many times they ran.




We ran 1 running play in the first quarter of the Seattle game. If that is not the definition of abandoning the run, I don't know what is.

For the SF game, your argument that we can't know whether the play call was a run or a pass to me isn't credible. If Aaron Rodgers audibled out of running plays in the second half then Mike McCarthy made it easy for him by coming out almost exclusively in shotgun formations.

There was a dramatic shift in the first half and the 2nd half in the formations we used. First half we ran 22 plays, 12 out of the shotgun and 10 from under center. In our first TD drive in the first half alone, Harris carried the ball twice from under center, gaining 5 yards and 18 yards, with the 2nd run resulting in the TD.

Second half, we came out in the shotgun on every single play in the 3rd quarter (17), including all 11 plays before we fell behind. If Aaron Rodgers audibled out of running plays on any of these plays he was audibling out of a draw play out of the shotgun. 4th quarter 16 out of 20 plays were out of the shotgun, all were passes, but by then we were well behind.

To summarize:
1st half: 12 - 10 plays out of shotgun / under center
2nd half: 33 - 4 plays out of shotgun / under center

So, which is more credible--MM called a bunch of draw plays out of the shotgun and Aaron Rodgers audibled out of them, or Mike McCarthy called pass plays out of the shotgun in the first place?
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DoddPower on 6/20/2013(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#76 Posted : Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:01:09 PM(UTC)
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Are there still people who deny Mike and Aaron abandon the run?
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DoddPower on 6/20/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#77 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 5:20:37 AM(UTC)
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Dexter_Sinister said: Go to Quoted Post
Cart before the horse.

Running the ball consistently without the ability to run effectively is going to put them in 3rd and long. It is going to come up short when you need to rely on it. 3rd & short, goal line and protecting a 4th quarter lead.

What I am looking for is the ability to run the ball effectively.


Cart before the horse? BS. The Packers have had the talent IMO. It simply had not been used correctly.

If your HC is OK with pass:run ratios of 8:1, your OL will never be able to wear out an opponent to effectively run block. Run blocking is all about precision and power, knocking your opponent backwards off his mark. Good run blocking is simply the result of going to this well again and again. That is what makes good running teams.

"Effective" isn't just "oh, good, this is working. Now lets use it." I don't buy any of this stuff about us not being able to run last season. Too often, we simply chose not to, especially during our first 5 games, taking us to a 2-3 record.

Lets put it this way: our own OL complained publicly after our loss to IND. Were those complaints about their position coach, Campen? Their supposedly shitty RBs? No, they were about the play calling that chose pass over run, again and again and again, resulting in a really fucking stupid loss. Should have never happened. Same with the SEA game.

Mike McCarthy simply allowed himself to get away from fundamental football. Really simple. This isn't rocket science.

Odd too, that after the public outcry for more running plays, we ran more, not particularly "effectively", and won more.

I do think we are both wanting the same things dexter, and I think we will see it realized this season.
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DoddPower on 6/20/2013(UTC)
Offline DarkaneRules  
#78 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:15:20 AM(UTC)
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I am more in the line with the camp of people that say with teams like this that your best defense is offense. The gameplan is a risk if it doesn't work, but I believe the best plan is to shorten the game with long clock killing drives. The more time teams like the 49ers are on the field with that QB, the more they will hurt you. Once Kap gets into rhythm, I don't believe you can stop him. To me he is one of the most exciting players in the NFL.
Offline nerdmann  
#79 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 9:31:41 AM(UTC)
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Suddenly everyone's on my side!

Shit's starting to warm my cockles.
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DarkaneRules on 6/23/2013(UTC)
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#80 Posted : Thursday, June 20, 2013 5:56:30 PM(UTC)
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play2win said: Go to Quoted Post
Cart before the horse? BS. The Packers have had the talent IMO. It simply had not been used correctly.

If your HC is OK with pass:run ratios of 8:1, your OL will never be able to wear out an opponent to effectively run block. Run blocking is all about precision and power, knocking your opponent backwards off his mark. Good run blocking is simply the result of going to this well again and again. That is what makes good running teams.

"Effective" isn't just "oh, good, this is working. Now lets use it." I don't buy any of this stuff about us not being able to run last season. Too often, we simply chose not to, especially during our first 5 games, taking us to a 2-3 record.

Lets put it this way: our own OL complained publicly after our loss to IND. Were those complaints about their position coach, Campen? Their supposedly shitty RBs? No, they were about the play calling that chose pass over run, again and again and again, resulting in a really fucking stupid loss. Should have never happened. Same with the SEA game.

Mike McCarthy simply allowed himself to get away from fundamental football. Really simple. This isn't rocket science.

Odd too, that after the public outcry for more running plays, we ran more, not particularly "effectively", and won more.

I do think we are both wanting the same things dexter, and I think we will see it realized this season.


What was the pass run ratio last year?

Coincidentally, Benson also sucked as a runner and always has. He was all they had in the first 5 games.

So who was the RB that wasn't "Supposedly shitty"? Who had a good YPC average in the first 5 games. Green playing on a bad leg, Saine on IR or Starks on PUP?

Because if they were not really shitty and it was the lack of attempts, they should have had a decent YPC and not many carries.

In the Colts game, the Packers had their 3rd highest rushing total of the year.

The D giving up 30 is much more to blame than the lack of a run game.

Dropping picks was one of the issues I would identify as the biggest reason we lost. Not the run game.
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