Green Bay Packers Forum

Welcome to your Green Bay Packers Online Community!

Since 2006, PackersHome has been providing a unique experience for fans.
Your participation is greatly anticipated!
Login or Register.
5 Pages123>»
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline Zero2Cool  
#1 Posted : Thursday, June 27, 2013 5:56:03 AM(UTC)
Rank: Premier Member

Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Gold: 2015Yahoo! Fantasy Football - Gold: 2009FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Silver: 2011ESPN NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2013

United States
Joined: 10/13/2006(UTC)
Location: Green Bay, WI
Applause Given: 2,386
Applause Received: 3,733
You can click Source for more on this subject.


Source said:
With Captain Comeback, we like to look at the close finishes the NFL provides every week, and also do a good share of proving when the facts are being distorted by battles over semantics.

The much-publicized ending in the Green Bay at Seattle game from Monday Night Football is a classic example of both. It was one of the most exciting finishes ever, and the ending has been spoiled by controversy from the moment it happened as people fight over what the words “control”, “possession”, and “catch” mean in NFL terms.

The ending has hit mainstream news outside of the realm of sports, and many sources – most of which are not even qualified to make the statement – refer to it as the “worst call in NFL history.” That might be true if your knowledge of NFL history starts in 2012.

Enough already. The biggest travesty in the NFL this week comes from all the fans and media that have let a perfect storm of events shape the biggest overreaction ever to a call that was right, and a touchdown that was legitimate.

When you take your emotions out of it, and only study the facts, then there is no denying the replacement referees got the ending right, and the NFL’s statement was correct in upholding the call.



Analyzing the Touchdown

Want the short or long version? You know you are getting the long anyway, but if you need a summary, then here it goes.

The short version: Golden Tate had the first control of the ball, catching it with his left hand, which never loses control of the ball throughout the entire process of the play. His two feet hit the ground to establish possession before M.D. Jennings establishes possession. Tate’s butt hits the ground, and at this point, he still has control, possession and is in the end zone for a good touchdown. Tate pushed off for an uncalled offensive pass interference that would have ended the game, but this is irrelevant when history shows no referee in football will make such a call on a Hail Mary. Seattle’s win is legit.

The long version will now go through the whole catch, and the key is to look at a frame-by-frame analysis.

While slow-motion replays are sexier for TV, you have to take a frame-by-frame approach to get evidence of what really happens. No matter how many replays you watch from whatever angles you find, it is the exact frames at the key moments that will tell you what really happened, and why this is a touchdown.

First, everyone can agree that this was a pass in the end zone, with both players always inbounds, and the ball never hits the ground. That means it has to be either ruled a touchdown or an interception. That is not up for debate by anyone.

Next, we need to define control, possession and a catch, as these have been mixed up quite a bit this week. Possession only occurs when a catch is completed, and having control is a key element of making a catch.

The following is from the NFL’s statement on what defines a catch as stated in Rule 8, Section 1.

“A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:

(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and

(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and

(c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).”

If the player is going to the ground like they were in this play, then control must be maintained throughout the process for the catch to count. That did happen, and all the wrestling for the ball that took place was irrelevant as the touchdown was already good.

The following is the NFL’s rule for a simultaneous catch, as there apparently is no rule for simultaneous possession, which many have tried to talk about for this play.

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 5 states:

“Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.”

Technically, there probably never is a true simultaneous catch in the NFL, as someone will always touch the ball first (size of ball and hands dictate as much), as Tate did here. Hell, this call was probably still way closer than Bret Hart and Lex Luger simultaneously going over the top rope in the 1994 Royal Rumble. Now if you want to talk about a rip-off that you had to pay for…
Offline OlHoss1884  
#2 Posted : Thursday, June 27, 2013 6:35:20 AM(UTC)
Rank: Member

United States
Joined: 5/8/2013(UTC)
Location: Waukegan, IL
Applause Given: 91
Applause Received: 267
Except thatit was clear on the replay (and to the official closer to the play who initially made the call) that it was not simultaneous possession and that Jennings was on the ground in the end zone with possession before Tate wrestled his hands around it. The initial call on the field was interception and touchback, which was overruled on the field by an official who was farther away with a poorer angle on the play. The replay made it clear that the initial call was correct...it was NOT all that close. Let's not forget the clearly blown offensive pass interference non-call as well. THAT was so bad the league even admitted it.

Like with the Majkowski call in 1989 I think it ultimately had more to do with an amazing play at the nd of the game where they looked for an excuse to grant a break to the home team. I do not think, in the end, it made a ton of difference because I don't think anyone was going to keep SF from winning the NFC, whether the gamewas played there or in GB, but it will still go downas one of the more egregious officiating blunders of all time.
thanks Post received 2 applause.
wpr on 6/27/2013(UTC), texaspackerbacker on 6/28/2013(UTC)
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#3 Posted : Thursday, June 27, 2013 7:28:43 AM(UTC)
Rank: Registered

Joined: 6/12/2010(UTC)
Applause Given: 292
Applause Received: 266
Except the Ref said he blew the call.

The call was so bad, 138 people lost their jobs.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
nerdmann on 6/27/2013(UTC)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#4 Posted : Thursday, June 27, 2013 7:39:56 AM(UTC)
Rank: Premier Member

Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Gold: 2015Yahoo! Fantasy Football - Gold: 2009FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Silver: 2011ESPN NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2013

United States
Joined: 10/13/2006(UTC)
Location: Green Bay, WI
Applause Given: 2,386
Applause Received: 3,733
Dexter_Sinister said: Go to Quoted Post
Except the Ref said he blew the call.

The call was so bad, 138 people lost their jobs.


Lance Easley has stood by the call, as quoted here - link.

And 138 lost their job, but 138 got their job back.

Edit, "Replacement referee Wayne Elliott, who initially defended the call of a touchdown by Seahawks receiver Golden Tate, reluctantly admitted during an interview with Cris Collinsworth and James Brown on this week’s Inside the NFL that the call “probably” should have been an interception."
Offline PackerTraxx  
#5 Posted : Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:28:16 AM(UTC)
Rank: Senior Member

Joined: 8/13/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 137
Applause Received: 237
Plain and simple...BS.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
buckeyepackfan on 6/27/2013(UTC)
Offline buckeyepackfan  
#6 Posted : Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:37:58 AM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Bronze: 2012Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2014

Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)
Location: Lima, Ohio
Applause Given: 729
Applause Received: 756
PackerTraxx said: Go to Quoted Post
Plain and simple...BS.


=d> =d> =d> =d> =d>

Just one of many bad calls in that game, and across the league.

That call finally made The NFL realize they better get real refs back or The game itself was going to start suffering.

The replacement refs are the reason I never refer back to the 1st 3 games of the 2012 season to make any kind of comparisons.


IT WAS NOT REAL FOOTBALL!!!!

Most didn't have a clue on the rules and none could keep up with the fast pace of the game.

All that being said, The Packers had their chances to still be at home for the playoffs, the cards just didn't fall their way at the end of the year.
Offline DarkaneRules  
#7 Posted : Thursday, June 27, 2013 9:50:07 AM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

Joined: 8/15/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 320
Applause Received: 688
The moral of this story is to leave nothing to chance.
Offline wpr  
#8 Posted : Thursday, June 27, 2013 11:29:26 AM(UTC)
Rank: Select Member

PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Gold: 2012PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Gold: 2013FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2014FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Bronze: 2013

Joined: 8/8/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 3,645
Applause Received: 1,856
Scott Kacsmar can try and piss on my leg but no matter what he says he won't convince me that it is raining.

The call was wrong. It has been affirmed and reaffirmed many times.

His long winded analogy does not show his brilliance only his ignorance and i am ok with that.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
DoddPower on 6/28/2013(UTC)
Offline wpr  
#9 Posted : Thursday, June 27, 2013 11:41:44 AM(UTC)
Rank: Select Member

PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Gold: 2012PackersHome NFL Pick'em - Gold: 2013FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2014FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Bronze: 2013

Joined: 8/8/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 3,645
Applause Received: 1,856
Out of curiosity I did a quick check of Scott Kacsmar. he is from Pittsburgh. I am sure he was not the least bit upset that GB beat the Steelers in the SB. I am sure he holds no ill will toward the Packers.
Offline steveishere  
#10 Posted : Thursday, June 27, 2013 11:59:46 AM(UTC)
Rank: Senior Member

FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Gold: 2013

Joined: 7/28/2012(UTC)
Applause Given: 57
Applause Received: 1,570
http://cdn1.sbnation.com...1211119/refss_medium.gif

I don't buy it. Jennings caught the thing.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
DoddPower on 6/28/2013(UTC)
Rss Feed 
Users browsing this topic
Guest
5 Pages123>»
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error


Fan Shout
Smokey (3h) : Rest in Peace Arnold Palmer, you blessed us all .
hardrocker950 (11h) : What a strange weekend of football
jdlax (11h) : What's up, friends? It's like bizzaro world right now trailing the Vikings. Blah.
GoPack1984 (15h) : Ryan Fitzpatrick threw 6 interceptions!
TheKanataThrilla (17h) : Cleveland loses.
The_Green_Ninja (18h) : I swear, Jacksonville's hot weather must be a huge advantage. Kept it super close with the Ravens
TheKanataThrilla (18h) : Su'a Cravens with a big INT. A guy I wanted.
TheKanataThrilla (18h) : Can Cleveland win?
Zero2Cool (18h) : T.J. Lang said after one of Aaron Rodgers' TD passes the Packers quarterback head-butted Lang in excitement and said "I'm back."
Zero2Cool (22h) : Terrelle Pryor could see snaps at quarterback
Zero2Cool (22h) : inactives 6 Callahan 37 Shields 42 Burnett 52 Matthews 68 Murphy 95 Jones 98 Guion
Mucky Tundra (22h) : GET HYPE
Zero2Cool (22h) : Packers aim to showcase speed of Ty Montgomery, Trevor Davis
Zero2Cool (22h) : CB Quinten Rollins will start for Shields. Micah Hyde for Burnett. Julius Peppers for Matthews. Kenny Clark for Guion.
Tezzy (23h) : Probably will not be on the top of the Pick'Em leaderboard after today, soaking it in beforehand
Tezzy (25-Sep) : Foosball!
yooperfan (25-Sep) : Game day, tee it up and get this show on the road!
dyeah_gb (25-Sep) : Dyeah! Go Pack!
buckeyepackfan (25-Sep) : GOOD MORNING PACKER FANS! GAMEDAY! GO! PACK! GO!
flep (25-Sep) : Gameday!!! Will see you all in chat later
The_Green_Ninja (25-Sep) : Also, I'm not sure if you guys know. I'm a Memphis Tigers fan. Start looking a Riley Ferguson, QB. He is the real deal.
The_Green_Ninja (24-Sep) : Big whoop, we have Aaron. We are going to win. H8ers.
Zero2Cool (24-Sep) : Matthews, Burnett out; Guion, Jones doubtful
Zero2Cool (24-Sep) : thank ya
macbob (23-Sep) : HAPPY BIRTHDAY, KEVIN (yesterday...sigh...)
Zero2Cool (23-Sep) : Sam Shields has already been ruled out for Sunday's game.
Zero2Cool (23-Sep) : For Lions, Ansah is out. LBs Levy and Williams doubtful and Van Noy questionable. TE Ebron and DE Taylor questionable, too.
Zero2Cool (23-Sep) : Jimmy G sprained his AC joint
Mucky Tundra (23-Sep) : Brady is suspended and 2nd stringer Jimmy Garoppolo suffered a ACL sprain in week 2
Mucky Tundra (23-Sep) : Patriots 3rd stringer QB Jacoby Brissett injuried and needs surgery
Zero2Cool (23-Sep) : Quinten Rollins is the only NFL cornerback to play 20 or more snaps in the slot this year without allowing a catch
Porforis (23-Sep) : Cutler has better luck completing to Packers players 10+ yards downfield than Rodgers does. I say only mostly facetiously.
Smokey (23-Sep) : HELLO DAVE
The_Green_Ninja (23-Sep) : You people would think we have a QB worse than Cutler.
dyeah_gb (22-Sep) : Bench him!!!!
Please sign in to use Fan Shout

Road To Super Bowl LI
Sunday, Sep 11 @ 12:00 PM
at Jaguars
Sunday, Sep 18 @ 7:30 PM
at Vikings
Sunday, Sep 25 @ 12:00 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Oct 2 @ 12:00 AM
BYE
Sunday, Oct 9 @ 7:30 PM
GIANTS
Sunday, Oct 16 @ 3:25 PM
COWBOYS
Thursday, Oct 20 @ 7:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Oct 30 @ 12:00 PM
at Falcons
Sunday, Nov 6 @ 3:25 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Nov 13 @ 12:00 PM
at Titans
Sunday, Nov 20 @ 7:30 PM
at Redskins
Monday, Nov 28 @ 7:30 PM
at Eagles
Sunday, Dec 4 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Dec 11 @ 3:25 PM
SEAHAWKS
Sunday, Dec 18 @ 12:00 PM
at Bears
Saturday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Jan 1 @ 12:00 PM
at Lions

Think About It
Think About It

Recent Topics
31m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

56m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Porforis

59m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Porforis

1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / mi_keys

1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / mi_keys

5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / blueleopard

8h / Green Bay Packers Talk / DoddPower

11h / Green Bay Packers Talk / jdlax

17h / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

18h / Green Bay Packers Talk / TheKanataThrilla

21h / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

22h / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

23h / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

23-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan

23-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan


Packers Headlines