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Zero2Cool  
#21 Posted : Tuesday, July 2, 2013 12:42:39 PM(UTC)
I think the voting is who was the best player last season. I don't believe the ranking is who would you build a team around.
DoddPower  
#22 Posted : Tuesday, July 2, 2013 12:59:32 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
I think the voting is who was the best player last season. I don't believe the ranking is who would you build a team around.


It's SUPPOSED to be that way, but if you listen to some of the comments, you hear all kinds of different things. I've heard a lot about how great a player has been in the past or throughout their career, etc. Charles Woodson being on the list this year is a pretty good example of that. From what I can gather, everyone uses their own criteria when voting.
porky88  
#23 Posted : Tuesday, July 2, 2013 2:34:51 PM(UTC)
doddpower said: Go to Quoted Post
It's SUPPOSED to be that way, but if you listen to some of the comments, you hear all kinds of different things. I've heard a lot about how great a player has been in the past or throughout their career, etc. Charles Woodson being on the list this year is a pretty good example of that. From what I can gather, everyone uses their own criteria when voting.

I thought it was a projection for this season. Confused

I'd be much more interested in a list created by coaches, scouts, and general managers.
dhazer  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, July 2, 2013 3:17:58 PM(UTC)
If I had to take a player for one year I would take Peyton Manning as much as I hate to admit it. Look what he did last year with the Bronco's and watch what he does this year with Welker in the slot. The one thing that would stop him from breaking passing records is the Broncos like to run the ball. Manning is an awesome qb and knows just about every defense you throw at him.

All the Rodgers praise is nice and all and people keep saying they would take him over anyone to build to win a superbowl, please take off the glasses and look. He has won one superbowl and hate to say the defense had alot to do with that. I know people will say I am bashing Rodgers but I am not, I am just looking the stats.


I really didn't have a problem with the list and hopefully we can be more than one and done this year. This team is starting to remind me of the Sherman years after we won the superbowl with Holmgren and after that we were in the playoffs but never did anything.
TheKanataThrilla  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, July 2, 2013 4:59:45 PM(UTC)
Rockmolder said: Go to Quoted Post
But it's a list of the best players, not the one with the highest positional value.

Or, at least, that's the only reason I can think off that they put it together like this.

If you'd go by who's worth what to a team, you could make a pretty strong case for about 10 quarterbacks to be taken before AP.


But why then was Revis as high as he was?
TheKanataThrilla  
#26 Posted : Tuesday, July 2, 2013 5:03:42 PM(UTC)
dhazer said: Go to Quoted Post
If I had to take a player for one year I would take Peyton Manning as much as I hate to admit it. Look what he did last year with the Bronco's and watch what he does this year with Welker in the slot. The one thing that would stop him from breaking passing records is the Broncos like to run the ball. Manning is an awesome qb and knows just about every defense you throw at him.

All the Rodgers praise is nice and all and people keep saying they would take him over anyone to build to win a superbowl, please take off the glasses and look. He has won one superbowl and hate to say the defense had alot to do with that. I know people will say I am bashing Rodgers but I am not, I am just looking the stats.


I really didn't have a problem with the list and hopefully we can be more than one and done this year. This team is starting to remind me of the Sherman years after we won the superbowl with Holmgren and after that we were in the playoffs but never did anything.


Not sure I get your argument. You gush about Peyton and then say that Rodgers only has 1 Superbowl. Peyton only has 1 Superbowl as well and had alot more chances.

DoddPower  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, July 2, 2013 5:41:44 PM(UTC)
TheKanataThrilla said: Go to Quoted Post
Not sure I get your argument. You gush about Peyton and then say that Rodgers only has 1 Superbowl. Peyton only has 1 Superbowl as well and had alot more chances.



Heh, Hazer's post aren't intended to be logical or make sense. They just are. After all, after hitting "reply," he has to hit SOME combination of buttons on the keyboard, right? He can't just stare at it (although he probably does that, too).
steveishere  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, July 2, 2013 7:47:21 PM(UTC)
dhazer said: Go to Quoted Post
If I had to take a player for one year I would take Peyton Manning as much as I hate to admit it. Look what he did last year with the Bronco's and watch what he does this year with Welker in the slot. The one thing that would stop him from breaking passing records is the Broncos like to run the ball. Manning is an awesome qb and knows just about every defense you throw at him.

All the Rodgers praise is nice and all and people keep saying they would take him over anyone to build to win a superbowl, please take off the glasses and look. He has won one superbowl and hate to say the defense had alot to do with that. I know people will say I am bashing Rodgers but I am not, I am just looking the stats.


I really didn't have a problem with the list and hopefully we can be more than one and done this year. This team is starting to remind me of the Sherman years after we won the superbowl with Holmgren and after that we were in the playoffs but never did anything.


What did peyton win his 2nd superbowl last year or something?

mi_keys  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, July 2, 2013 8:00:36 PM(UTC)
TheKanataThrilla said: Go to Quoted Post
Not sure I get your argument. You gush about Peyton and then say that Rodgers only has 1 Superbowl. Peyton only has 1 Superbowl as well and had alot more chances.



And if he responds, "oh, but the Colts defenses always sucked!" the one time Peyton one a Super Bowl his defense gave up 8, 6, 34* and 17* points in the playoffs. In the AFC Championship game against the Pats, one of those touchdowns was a pick 6 and another came off a drive starting on the Colts' 30 following a long kickoff return. In the Super Bowl, one of those touchdowns was a Devin Hester kick return. You take those two off the board that the defense had nothing to do with and they averaged giving up 12.75 points a game. They may have sucked that year but it came together at the right time.

Dex will love this: you win as a team, you lose as a team. Basing your entire argument about one QB or another on the number of Super Bowls they've won is absolute bollocks.

And now I can't believe I wasted my time validating his argument, which is likely just a windup, with a rebuttal.
Zero2Cool  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, July 2, 2013 8:02:04 PM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
What did peyton win his 2nd superbowl last year or something?



dhazer thinks Peyton Manning plays for the Detroit Lions.
OlHoss1884  
#31 Posted : Tuesday, July 2, 2013 11:48:02 PM(UTC)
Something that has sort of come up above but was talked about on PFT...a big part of the issue is there were no clear criteria spelled out for the voters. Is it based on last year? A projection (which it seems like to me, partly because it's the best of 2013) and should past performance beyond the last year or two matter at all? Obviously the better GM's don't think so at all, they are about what someone will do THIS year and beyond.

As much as people despise a lot of sportswriters I would be more interested in the PFT list they are working on because they are going to poll a lot of guys who watch a lot of football in a (mostly) unbiased way and they will have better guidelines. There will still be arguments and flaws in it but I bet Antonio Gates is not higher than Jimmy Graham and that Brady is not higher than Rodgers. (Manning might be, as he will only face top 10 defenses twice this year...I expect him to look monstrous.)
Zero2Cool  
#32 Posted : Wednesday, July 3, 2013 4:58:40 AM(UTC)
OlHoss1884 said: Go to Quoted Post
There will still be arguments and flaws in it but I bet Antonio Gates is not higher than Jimmy Graham and that Brady is not higher than Rodgers. (Manning might be, as he will only face top 10 defenses twice this year...I expect him to look monstrous.)


How do you know what teams will be top 10 in defensive scoring this season or are you mistakenly assuming that last years top 10 in defensive scoring will be this years top 10 as well?
OlHoss1884  
#33 Posted : Wednesday, July 3, 2013 7:30:12 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
How do you know what teams will be top 10 in defensive scoring this season or are you mistakenly assuming that last years top 10 in defensive scoring will be this years top 10 as well?


It was based on last year's rankings, and reported on NFL network when they were discussing which QB would have a better year.
warhawk  
#34 Posted : Wednesday, July 3, 2013 8:09:49 AM(UTC)
All I can say is if Brady has a better year with the guys he's lost to throw to my hat will be off to him. I would say it's a stretch though.
Also, I see Rodgers being highly more productive with just a reasonable improvement in the running game. I believe his game will raise up disproportionally to any improvement they get running the ball. I say this because Rodgers does not need much to do great things and he has the talent to take any increased production from another area and use it to put a dagger in about any D.

packman82  
#35 Posted : Wednesday, July 3, 2013 12:28:41 PM(UTC)
Did Rodgers winning the 2011 MVP take the sting out of that early playoff exit ?
steveishere  
#36 Posted : Thursday, July 4, 2013 8:22:41 AM(UTC)
packman82 said: Go to Quoted Post
Did Rodgers winning the 2011 MVP take the sting out of that early playoff exit ?


No but it was better than no players getting an mvp or missing the playoffs all together
dhazer  
#37 Posted : Saturday, July 6, 2013 10:52:16 AM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
What did peyton win his 2nd superbowl last year or something?



The main reason I would take Manning over Rodgers is for the sake of him knowing other teams defenses probably as good as the opposing team does. I personally can't stand the guy but he has the best football mind playing qb right now. Rodgers has a ways to go and as always I say fuck that passer rating crap. I am not bashing Rodgers but for 1 year I would take Manning over anyone.
steveishere  
#38 Posted : Saturday, July 6, 2013 12:08:47 PM(UTC)
dhazer said: Go to Quoted Post
The main reason I would take Manning over Rodgers is for the sake of him knowing other teams defenses probably as good as the opposing team does. I personally can't stand the guy but he has the best football mind playing qb right now. Rodgers has a ways to go and as always I say fuck that passer rating crap. I am not bashing Rodgers but for 1 year I would take Manning over anyone.


Rofl you act like Manning is god. He's only won 1 Superbowl and lets face it the defense had a lot to do with that.
OlHoss1884  
#39 Posted : Saturday, July 6, 2013 12:59:24 PM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
Rofl you act like Manning is god. He's only won 1 Superbowl and lets face it the defense had a lot to do with that.


You mean the one that had to shutdown the immortal Rex Grossman in the rain?
DoddPower  
#40 Posted : Saturday, July 6, 2013 1:53:13 PM(UTC)
steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
Rofl you act like Manning is god. He's only won 1 Superbowl and lets face it the defense had a lot to do with that.



P. Manning is really good, but I think he falls just short of TRULY GREAT. He just seems to choke a lot in the playoffs, although they probably should have beaten the Ravens last year. But still, they didn't. The same could be said about Aaron Rodgers, too, if the Packers continue their recent pattern of the past couple of seasons. They've got to change that.
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