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Offline MintBaconDrivel  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, July 9, 2013 6:28:47 AM(UTC)
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Jason Wilde wrote:
GREEN BAY — Mike McCarthy would have loved to have kept it a secret. So much for the best laid plans of mice and NFL head coaches.

In a perfect world, the Green Bay Packers head coach would have been able to keep the experiment of working defensive end Mike Neal at outside linebacker under wraps. But from the moment Neal lined up there in the team's first open organized team activity practice — an open-to-the-public, open-to-the-media workout at Clarke Hinkle Field on May 21 — there was no hope of surprising the San Francisco 49ers with it on opening day Sept. 8.

But subterfuge aside, the move makes Neal an intriguing player in the Packers' grand defensive scheme. It was a clear signal that the coaching staff sees potential in the fourth-year player, who has battled injuries but has flashed when healthy.

"Schematically, we're going to do some different things and we're going to expand Mike Neal's role," McCarthy said in a slightly annoyed tone when asked about the experiment after practice that day. "All the specifics of that I'm sure we can wait until Week 1 to get in to all of that."

Neal, a 2010 second-round draft pick from Purdue who missed 26 of the first 28 possible games of his NFL career (including playoffs) because of injuries, finally blossomed last season once he was able to play consistently.

During his disappointing rookie season, Neal strained an abdominal muscle during training camp and missed the first three regular-season games, then missed the final 11 regular-season and four playoff games with a right shoulder injury that required surgery after he tore his rotator cuff and partially tore the labrum. In the two games he did play, though, Neal forced a fumble against Detroit and had his first NFL sack against Washington.

Neal then missed the first half of the 2011 season after suffering a knee injury in an August training-camp practice and was a non-factor upon his return to the field.

But last season, after serving a four-game suspension for violating the NFL's policy on performance-enhancing substances — Neal said he was suspended for taking Adderall, for which he actually had a prescription — Neal was a different player. In only 10 games and 323 snaps, Neal registered 4.5 sacks, plus four quarterback hits and 17 hurries, according to ProFootballFocus.com. His 7.2 grade from PFF was one of only four positive pass-rushing grades on the team, and second only to star outside linebacker Clay Matthews, who had 13 regular-season sacks, three postseason sacks and a 15.2 overall pass-rush grade.

Neal, who is listed at 6-foot-3 and 294 pounds, seems awfully big to be playing outside, where 2012 first-round pick Nick Perry was viewed as big at 265 pounds last year. But at the very least, he gives the Packers another intriguing pass-rushing option for defensive coordinator Dom Capers to use in his game plans, in addition to Perry, Matthews, Dezman Moses and defensive linemen B.J. Raji and Datone Jones, the team's first-round pick.

"All these doggone quarterbacks that can run around, you've got to have guys that can run and catch 'em. You want to put your most athletic guys out there," Capers explained. "Datone Jones, Mike Neal — those are two nice-size guys who are athletic. With Perry and Clay, that's a pretty athletic group.

"I think the more (Neal) can do, the more versatile it's going to make us. It'll make it harder for the offense to identify some of the things we're doing. He's been primarily an inside rusher for us. We liked the way he rushed inside last year. We just are trying to look to expand his role. If he can be both an inside and outside rusher, then that's an asset to us. ... The more versatile a guy is, the more flexibility he gives you on defense. And Mike's a guy that has a combination of strength, size, speed, quickness, power that we're trying to get him work."

For his part, Neal had no idea of the team's plans when he showed up for the offseason program. But it appears this will be more than just a spring experiment. Even though Neal figures to work primarily at defensive end and may only line up at outside linebacker for a handful of snaps each game, he will clearly be given the opportunity to be a difference-maker on a defense that registered the fourth-most sacks in the NFL last year (47).

"From my standpoint, I'm a football player. And there are football coaches. And the coaches ask me to do one thing, and that's what I do. I don't ask any questions I just go along with the road they present to me," said Neal, who is set to become an unrestricted free agent after the season. "So as of right now if that's what it is, that's what it is. I don't know any plans going down in the future. Heck, I don't know what's going on tomorrow. I just know that if this is where I lined up today, that's where I line up at. If it may be elsewhere then that's elsewhere but I'm just playing whatever they tell me to.

"(This) just gives me more opportunities to use what I've got. You look at an outside linebacker in our defense. They've got to be athletic. They've still got to be strong. They've still got to be able to move. They've got to have agility and I think I possess all of those skills, so for me it's no different, it's just learning a different position."
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, July 9, 2013 11:50:35 AM(UTC)
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I don't see Neal being that high on the list. It's hard to say without seeing all the names above him and who is left out of the top 20, and I HOPE Neal makes a great leap forward, but I think there are way more than 18 bigger contributors than him.

And the "switch to OLB", I think that is somehow a part-time or a terminology thing. I can't see Neal as a book end with CM3.
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Offline nerdmann  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, July 9, 2013 12:05:42 PM(UTC)
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No way Apete bounces it outside for 200+ against Perry and Neal.

Only thing with Neal is can he stay healthy? Moving him around like this scares me just a little bit. (Not to jinx him of course.)
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, July 9, 2013 12:06:23 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
No way Apete bounces it outside for 200+ against Perry and Neal.

Only thing with Neal is can he stay healthy? Moving him around like this scares me just a little bit. (Not to jinx him of course.)


Why would he try when can just run through the middle over good ole #50?
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thanks Post received 1 applause.
DoddPower on 7/9/2013(UTC)
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#5 Posted : Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:18:03 PM(UTC)
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Operation Red Herring is in effect.

Make sure EVERYONE knows the "super secret formation" that the NATIONAL media was invited to watch on the first day of OTAs. So the 49ers can be totally prepared for Neal lined up at LB.

Then hit them with something completely different.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.

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thanks Post received 1 applause.
nerdmann on 7/11/2013(UTC)
Offline DakotaT  
#6 Posted : Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:30:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Why would he try when can just run through the middle over good ole #50?


Why do all you fvckers get to rip Hawk, but Buckeye only takes it out on me? I guess I touched him in that ole special way or something. Big Grin
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#7 Posted : Friday, July 12, 2013 4:52:03 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Why do all you fvckers get to rip Hawk, but Buckeye only takes it out on me? I guess I touched him in that ole special way or something. Big Grin


I've made it quite obvious that I only jump A.J. Hawk to get at him. You truly have no clue about football and that's why he focuses on you. He's trying to educate you. Open your eyes. :)
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline play2win  
#8 Posted : Friday, July 12, 2013 8:26:58 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Why do all you fvckers get to rip Hawk, but Buckeye only takes it out on me? I guess I touched him in that ole special way or something. Big Grin



Rolling On The Floor Laughing That's pretty damn funny.
Offline DoddPower  
#9 Posted : Friday, July 12, 2013 8:40:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister Go to Quoted Post
Operation Red Herring is in effect.

Make sure EVERYONE knows the "super secret formation" that the NATIONAL media was invited to watch on the first day of OTAs. So the 49ers can be totally prepared for Neal lined up at LB.

Then hit them with something completely different.


IMO, if the 49'ers are actually that concerned or spend much time preparing for Mike Neal at OLB, then they are stupid, lol. Mike Neal standing up is something that should merit a few moments of attention, but nothing more, until if and when he proves differently. I really don't see it as that big of a deal.

Mike Neal can rush the passer. At this point, he's probably the 2nd or 3rd (maybe 3rd or 4th this season) best pass rusher on the Packers, but he's very inconsistent. He'll disrupt a few plays and then disappear for more. I don't think that will change whether he's playing as a defensive linemen or outside linebacker. Perhaps that could change if a few others step up in the pass rush department, but that's yet to be determined. I think seeing Mike Neal at OLB would be easy to take advantage of, because it's going to be pretty obvious he's rushing the passer. If he doesn't, then it should be very easy for a shifty running back or tight end to shake him for a nice 1st down or more. Someone like Russel Wilson or Colin Kaepernick could easily outrun him, as well.

As I said, Mike Neal can be good, but this whole OLB thing is blown out of proportion due to the slow time of the year in which the news broke. If that's the best wrinkle that Dom Capers has, then Packers defensive will be in trouble. Fortunately, I see many more wrinkles this season with Nick Perry and Datone Jones available (and the effect they can have on others).
thanks Post received 2 applause.
play2win on 7/12/2013(UTC), yooperfan on 7/12/2013(UTC)
Offline DakotaT  
#10 Posted : Friday, July 12, 2013 10:48:03 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I've made it quite obvious that I only jump A.J. Hawk to get at him. You truly have no clue about football and that's why he focuses on you. He's trying to educate you. Open your eyes. :)


Ouch, I guess I'll have to school you more often - but then you get all menopausal too. I guess I'm surrounded by girls in this forum as well as in my house. Big Grin

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Offline Zero2Cool  
#11 Posted : Friday, July 12, 2013 10:50:04 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Ouch, I guess I'll have to school you more often - but then you get all menopausal too. I guess I'm surrounded by girls in this forum as well as in my house. Big Grin



OOH SNAP TIME TO GET SANDnVAGINA ALL UP IN YO FACE AND SHOW YOU SOME MAN-O-PAUSE!!





But really, Mike Neal ... healthy all 16 games ... I'd consider that a good season for him.
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Offline DakotaT  
#12 Posted : Friday, July 12, 2013 11:14:59 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
OOH SNAP TIME TO GET SANDnVAGINA ALL UP IN YO FACE AND SHOW YOU SOME MAN-O-PAUSE!!





But really, Mike Neal ... healthy all 16 games ... I'd consider that a good season for him.


Mike McCarthy said Neal could not be blocked in training camp last year. I also saw some stats last year showing Neal as the second rated 34 DE for pressures on the quarterback ranking behind only JJ Watt. Hopefully he can kick the bad luck injury bug.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#13 Posted : Friday, July 12, 2013 11:26:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Mike McCarthy said Neal could not be blocked in training camp last year. I also saw some stats last year showing Neal as the second rated 34 DE for pressures on the quarterback ranking behind only JJ Watt. Hopefully he can kick the bad luck injury bug.


He didn't play 50% of snaps, so I had to set it to 25% to even get Mike Neal in the list lol
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Offline DakotaT  
#14 Posted : Friday, July 12, 2013 12:07:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
He didn't play 50% of snaps, so I had to set it to 25% to even get Mike Neal in the list lol


Hey, I don't put parameters on things. My point is that he is very effective when on the field. # of sacks is a poor indicator of a person's effectiveness. KGB had a lot of sacks, but I don't recall many at money time.
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Offline nerdmann  
#15 Posted : Friday, July 12, 2013 12:20:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Hey, I don't put parameters on things. My point is that he is very effective when on the field. # of sacks is a poor indicator of a person's effectiveness. KGB had a lot of sacks, but I don't recall many at money time.


KGB never maintained outside containment.

Sacks aren't everything.
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Offline DoddPower  
#16 Posted : Friday, July 12, 2013 12:34:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Mike McCarthy said Neal could not be blocked in training camp last year.


Against the Packers offensive line? They have a way of making almost every pass rusher look un-blockable.

But in all seriousness, I'm a Neal fan. I think he can be a force, but he needs to stay available to be consistent. I'm certainly hoping he does. If just one other pass rusher can step up as a prominent threat on the Packers defense, they will improve substantially. Hopefully the Packers have 2-3 more threats this upcoming season.
Offline dhpackr  
#17 Posted : Friday, July 12, 2013 1:57:22 PM(UTC)
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I choose Permateal as my most valuable Packer

That is

These guys


Perry
Matthews
Neal


They can stop Copernick

Message modified by user Friday, July 12, 2013 2:12:39 PM(UTC)  | Reason: playing with code editor, tried to implement html 5 and css but did not work

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Offline play2win  
#18 Posted : Friday, July 12, 2013 2:21:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
Hey, I don't put parameters on things. My point is that he is very effective when on the field. # of sacks is a poor indicator of a person's effectiveness. KGB had a lot of sacks, but I don't recall many at money time.


How effective is a player who only plays 25% of snaps? I mean, how effective can that 25% be to the overall span of a game?

Not a knock on you at all, I'm just throwing this out there because I find that stat a bit enlightening. Thank God Ted drafted Datone and Boyd. I think those two are going to help immensely this season.

To me, Mike Neal still has one hell of a lot to prove. I'll be impressed when he last through the entire season and playoffs, and get's his sacks totals up near 10 or more. Then I'll be impressed.

I thought he played well last year, and also disappeared. We can't have the latter... Say what you will about sacks being overrated. Fuck it. I want 'em! Bring it.

Unblockable means sacks and tackles at or behind the line of scrimmage. There was not a single game last season where he had more than 2 tackles... I mean, c'mon... 5.5 sacks in 3 seasons? 7 Tackles for Loss in 3 seasons? "Unblockable?" Give me what he's smokin'!

Mike Neal needs to prove his worth this season. He will have no excuses, not with the talent he will be lining up with.

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Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#19 Posted : Saturday, July 13, 2013 9:52:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
How effective is a player who only plays 25% of snaps? I mean, how effective can that 25% be to the overall span of a game?

Not a knock on you at all, I'm just throwing this out there because I find that stat a bit enlightening. Thank God Ted drafted Datone and Boyd. I think those two are going to help immensely this season.

To me, Mike Neal still has one hell of a lot to prove. I'll be impressed when he last through the entire season and playoffs, and get's his sacks totals up near 10 or more. Then I'll be impressed.

I thought he played well last year, and also disappeared. We can't have the latter... Say what you will about sacks being overrated. Fuck it. I want 'em! Bring it.

Unblockable means sacks and tackles at or behind the line of scrimmage. There was not a single game last season where he had more than 2 tackles... I mean, c'mon... 5.5 sacks in 3 seasons? 7 Tackles for Loss in 3 seasons? "Unblockable?" Give me what he's smokin'!

Mike Neal needs to prove his worth this season. He will have no excuses, not with the talent he will be lining up with.


There are 2 completely different aspects you are talking about.

A.)How good he is

Secondly: How much he contributes.

Per snap production is how good he is.

Season totals is his contribution. (or in your case, 3 season totals)

Neal is unquestionably a very talented player. With a suspension and some injuries, his total production has not lived up to his ability.

There is a reasonable expectation that if Neal has a full healthy year, he could be one of the top 5 linemen in the league. There is not a reasonable expectation that he will have a full healthy year.

He is an interior lineman in the 3-4 which is designed to get the OLBs sacks. Now it is great when the DL can step up and generate a few sacks and pressures. But expecting double digit sacks from them is unrealistic.

And as was mentioned, sacks are not a great indicator of how much contribution a D lineman has. Even if a lineman like Jarred Allen set a record for sacks, it is still only 23 out of 1000 plays. How he does on the other 977 plays also matters. 45% of which are running plays.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.

Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
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