Green Bay Packers Forum

Welcome to your Green Bay Packers Online Community!

Since 2006, PackersHome has been providing a unique experience for fans.
Your participation is greatly anticipated!
Login or Register.
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline OlHoss1884  
#1 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 5:14:37 AM(UTC)
Rank: Member

United States
Joined: 5/8/2013(UTC)
Location: Waukegan, IL
Applause Given: 91
Applause Received: 266
Specifically, he said that Eli will be regarded as better than Peyton because he has more rings. Jamie Dukes has echoed this asking rhetorically "which is a better indicator of greatness, MVP's or Championships?"

I for one am getting really sick of this stupid argument. Championships do NOT determine who is the better QB. They are, like anything else, a factor, but far from the only one. A great QB with a terrible defense will not win championships. Likewise an average QB with a great defense CAN win a championship.

Marino
Kelly
Tarkenton
Fouts
Moon

I will take them over Hostetler, Johnson, Dilfer, Williams, McMahaon any given Sunday. The whole count the rings thing is the kind of dumb argument people like Steelers fans make to rationalize why Bradshaw is supposed to be better than anyone.

I would submit that anyone who resorts to that argument, all other things being clearly unequal, is already admitting they a) have lost the argument and b) really don't know football.
thanks Post received 2 applause.
texaspackerbacker on 7/20/2013(UTC), DakotaT on 7/20/2013(UTC)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 5:39:19 AM(UTC)
Rank: Premier Member

Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Gold: 2015Yahoo! Fantasy Football - Gold: 2009FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Silver: 2011ESPN NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2013

United States
Joined: 10/13/2006(UTC)
Location: Green Bay, WI
Applause Given: 2,346
Applause Received: 3,634
I don't think I seen Terry "4 rings" Bradshaw mentioned ...
Offline OlHoss1884  
#3 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 6:23:36 AM(UTC)
Rank: Member

United States
Joined: 5/8/2013(UTC)
Location: Waukegan, IL
Applause Given: 91
Applause Received: 266
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't think I seen Terry "4 rings" Bradshaw mentioned ...


In what context? The 5 I listed never won a upper Bowl, the second 5 did. In the case of Bradshaw there is an argument to be made that he was an all time great. In my recollection he was there with Stabler as the best AFC QB during the 70s. I am just saying that rings are not the penultimate argument in determining who was the best, unless all else is kind of equal. Based on that logic, Robert Horry was better than Jordan, and Luc Longley was better than Wilt Chamberlain. Or Tim Wakefield was better than Cy Young and Scooter Rizzuto was better than Babe Ruth.

Offline Wade  
#4 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 6:33:50 AM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

Joined: 8/1/2009(UTC)
Location: nowhere of importance
Applause Given: 887
Applause Received: 902
Winning a ring doesn't make a "great" quarterback. Winning three or more does.

Dilfer wasn't. Williams wasn't. Starr was. Unitas was.

Should you be considered a "great" quarterback if you win none at all? That's a lot tougher call for me.

I do know I'd rather have a team led by Starr or Unitas or, yes, a team led by Bradshaw, than a team led by Marino. Marino to me is the poster boy for the proposition that "stats don't make greatness."
Offline Wade  
#5 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 6:36:05 AM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

Joined: 8/1/2009(UTC)
Location: nowhere of importance
Applause Given: 887
Applause Received: 902
Oh, and:
1. Tiki Barber was not a great player.
2. Tiki Barber is not someone whose opinion is worth a whole heckuva lot.

[grin1]
Offline OlHoss1884  
#6 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 7:24:21 AM(UTC)
Rank: Member

United States
Joined: 5/8/2013(UTC)
Location: Waukegan, IL
Applause Given: 91
Applause Received: 266
Though I would add this...Marino was no doubt a great quarterback. His teams suffered from mediocre defense through much of his tenure, especially toward the later part of Shula's career, when he wouldn't can his DC (Tom Olividatti) out of loyalty.

To me I think it comes down to who do you pick to be your guy in an all time draft to build your team around and I think most people would have the 5 I mentioned in addition to guys you mention somewhere in that list. And I doubt many of them would honestly pick an Eli Manning ahead of any of them, clutch in the playoffs or not.
Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#7 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 4:56:44 PM(UTC)
Rank: Senior Member

Canada
Joined: 9/8/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 429
Applause Received: 463
Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
Winning a ring doesn't make a "great" quarterback. Winning three or more does.

Dilfer wasn't. Williams wasn't. Starr was. Unitas was.

Should you be considered a "great" quarterback if you win none at all? That's a lot tougher call for me.

I do know I'd rather have a team led by Starr or Unitas or, yes, a team led by Bradshaw, than a team led by Marino. Marino to me is the poster boy for the proposition that "stats don't make greatness."


I don't buy that at all. That is like saying John Elway was a greater QB in the twilight of his career than in his prime based on the fact he finally won the Superbowl and finally had a complete team in front of him and a little luck.
Offline Wade  
#8 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 5:09:10 PM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

Joined: 8/1/2009(UTC)
Location: nowhere of importance
Applause Given: 887
Applause Received: 902
TheKanataThrilla said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't buy that at all. That is like saying John Elways was a greater QB in the twilight of his career than in his prime based on the fact he finally won the Superbowl and finally had a complete team in front of him and a little luck.


Actually, I didn't say anything re: Elway at all. I said that one super bowl win was not enough, by itself to qualify as "great". And I said three or more did.

Indeed, part of the reason I was silent on how to interpret "two SB wins" was my not wanting to speak to Elway. To my mind, Elway was overrated throughout his career. Despite his HOF position and his general acclaim, I wouldn't put him in the top 25 list.

Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#9 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 5:21:03 PM(UTC)
Rank: Senior Member

Canada
Joined: 9/8/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 429
Applause Received: 463
Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
Actually, I didn't say anything re: Elway at all. I said that one super bowl win was not enough, by itself to qualify as "great". And I said three or more did.

Indeed, part of the reason I was silent on how to interpret "two SB wins" was my not wanting to speak to Elway. To my mind, Elway was overrated throughout his career. Despite his HOF position and his general acclaim, I wouldn't put him in the top 25 list.



No you said "Should you be considered a "great" quarterback if you win none at all? That's a lot tougher call for me." To me it is not, because Elway was fucking great way before he won a Superbowl.

Top 25 what? Of all time? QBs?
Offline OlHoss1884  
#10 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 6:20:35 PM(UTC)
Rank: Member

United States
Joined: 5/8/2013(UTC)
Location: Waukegan, IL
Applause Given: 91
Applause Received: 266
Here's my list, in no particular order:

Graham
Baugh
Luckman
Unitas
Starr
P. Manning
Brady
Staubach
Marino
Elway
Bradshaw
Aikman
Favre
Tarkenton
Montana
Young
Fouts
Kelly
Moon
Stabler
Herber
Brees
Layne
Van Brocklin
and I reserve the last spot for A-Rod, but might be too short a career at this point to count.
Rss Feed 
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error


Fan Shout
Smokey (6h): NFL Football tonight on NBC !
uffda udfa (8h): Cancer sucks. Claims children and others way too young. Sorry, 4 your loss.
yinzer (15h): wpr, I'm sorry to hear of your loss
Cheesey (23-Aug): Wow, Wayne. Sorry to hear about that. It's never easy to lose a loved one, no matter what age.
Zero2Cool (22-Aug): Sorry, Wayne. :-(
wpr (22-Aug): Lost a friend to Pancreatic cancer. Bummed. He was only 55. Hard working dairy farmer. I am not sure if his kids will be up to the task.
Zero2Cool (21-Aug): Yes
LSUzilla (21-Aug): is there a prize for the pickem game this year?
Smokey (19-Aug): Mexican Mucky , your a genius ! Chimichangas !
Smokey (19-Aug): Sorry Zero, wilted lettuce does not qualify . LOL
Mucky Tundra (19-Aug): beef
Zero2Cool (19-Aug): ... me
Smokey (19-Aug): Meat of the day ? Chicken, Fish, or Pork ?
Smokey (15-Aug): Still Recruiting, The Tailgaters Fantasy Football League
Zero2Cool (15-Aug): Lions sign TE Andrew Quarless
Zero2Cool (15-Aug): I got sound working last night! Woohoo!
Smokey (13-Aug): Then , Maybe Not
buckeyepackfan (12-Aug): GAMEDAY NIGHT!!!!(sort of) GO! PACK! GO!
Zero2Cool (11-Aug): load it up billy!!
Smokey (10-Aug): Rugby reminds me of my childhood when the neighborhood lads all played "fumble ball" .
Smokey (10-Aug): I tune in for Olympic Archery and get half naked women playing in the sand ! Life is good !
Smokey (10-Aug): Still, The Shadow Knows .
Zero2Cool (10-Aug): You'll have to tune in Friday evening to find out. Dun dun dunnnnn!!!! ??
Smokey (10-Aug): Will the Browns game be in the Chat ?
gbguy20 (7-Aug): game cancelled.
Smokey (7-Aug): What's going on with the Chat , dhazer ?
gbguy20 (7-Aug): come onnnnnnnn
gbguy20 (7-Aug): why arent we streaming the speeches
Mucky Tundra (6-Aug): From Green Bay to New Orleans...two couldn't be further apart
Zero2Cool (6-Aug): Saints signing fullback John Kuhn
wpr (5-Aug): It rained in Illinois overnight
Smokey (5-Aug): Y U in Bangkok , fatguy ?
fatguy (5-Aug): Go Pack, Go
fatguy (5-Aug): Hello from Bangkok. It's raining.
Zero2Cool (2-Aug): Chargers will sign former Packers WR James Jones
Please sign in to use Fan Shout

Road To Super Bowl LI
Sunday, Sep 11 @ 12:00 PM
at Jaguars
Sunday, Sep 18 @ 7:30 PM
at Vikings
Sunday, Sep 25 @ 12:00 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Oct 2 @ 12:00 AM
BYE
Sunday, Oct 9 @ 7:30 PM
GIANTS
Sunday, Oct 16 @ 3:25 PM
COWBOYS
Thursday, Oct 20 @ 7:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Oct 30 @ 12:00 PM
at Falcons
Sunday, Nov 6 @ 3:25 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Nov 13 @ 12:00 PM
at Titans
Sunday, Nov 20 @ 7:30 PM
at Redskins
Monday, Nov 28 @ 7:30 PM
at Eagles
Sunday, Dec 4 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Dec 11 @ 3:25 PM
SEAHAWKS
Sunday, Dec 18 @ 12:00 PM
at Bears
Saturday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Jan 1 @ 12:00 PM
at Lions

Think About It
Think About It

Recent Topics
2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Smokey

2h / Football Familiarity / Smokey

5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / uffda udfa

6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / uffda udfa

6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / sschind

7h / Around The NFL / Smokey

12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / gotarace

12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Smokey

13h / Green Bay Packers Talk / PackerTraxx

24-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / Barfarn

24-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / uffda udfa

24-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / sschind

24-Aug / Packers Draft Threads / DarkaneRules

23-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

23-Aug / Green Bay Packers Talk / PackFanWithTwins


Packers Headlines