Green Bay Packers Forum

Welcome to your Green Bay Packers Online Community!

Since 2006, PackersHome has been providing a unique experience for fans.
Your participation is greatly anticipated!
Login or Register.
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline OlHoss1884  
#1 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 5:14:37 AM(UTC)
Rank: Member

United States
Joined: 5/8/2013(UTC)
Location: Waukegan, IL
Applause Given: 91
Applause Received: 267
Specifically, he said that Eli will be regarded as better than Peyton because he has more rings. Jamie Dukes has echoed this asking rhetorically "which is a better indicator of greatness, MVP's or Championships?"

I for one am getting really sick of this stupid argument. Championships do NOT determine who is the better QB. They are, like anything else, a factor, but far from the only one. A great QB with a terrible defense will not win championships. Likewise an average QB with a great defense CAN win a championship.

Marino
Kelly
Tarkenton
Fouts
Moon

I will take them over Hostetler, Johnson, Dilfer, Williams, McMahaon any given Sunday. The whole count the rings thing is the kind of dumb argument people like Steelers fans make to rationalize why Bradshaw is supposed to be better than anyone.

I would submit that anyone who resorts to that argument, all other things being clearly unequal, is already admitting they a) have lost the argument and b) really don't know football.
thanks Post received 2 applause.
texaspackerbacker on 7/20/2013(UTC), DakotaT on 7/20/2013(UTC)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 5:39:19 AM(UTC)
Rank: Premier Member

Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Gold: 2015Yahoo! Fantasy Football - Gold: 2009FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Silver: 2011ESPN NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2013

United States
Joined: 10/13/2006(UTC)
Location: Green Bay, WI
Applause Given: 2,384
Applause Received: 3,733
I don't think I seen Terry "4 rings" Bradshaw mentioned ...
Offline OlHoss1884  
#3 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 6:23:36 AM(UTC)
Rank: Member

United States
Joined: 5/8/2013(UTC)
Location: Waukegan, IL
Applause Given: 91
Applause Received: 267
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't think I seen Terry "4 rings" Bradshaw mentioned ...


In what context? The 5 I listed never won a upper Bowl, the second 5 did. In the case of Bradshaw there is an argument to be made that he was an all time great. In my recollection he was there with Stabler as the best AFC QB during the 70s. I am just saying that rings are not the penultimate argument in determining who was the best, unless all else is kind of equal. Based on that logic, Robert Horry was better than Jordan, and Luc Longley was better than Wilt Chamberlain. Or Tim Wakefield was better than Cy Young and Scooter Rizzuto was better than Babe Ruth.

Offline Wade  
#4 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 6:33:50 AM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

Joined: 8/1/2009(UTC)
Location: nowhere of importance
Applause Given: 889
Applause Received: 912
Winning a ring doesn't make a "great" quarterback. Winning three or more does.

Dilfer wasn't. Williams wasn't. Starr was. Unitas was.

Should you be considered a "great" quarterback if you win none at all? That's a lot tougher call for me.

I do know I'd rather have a team led by Starr or Unitas or, yes, a team led by Bradshaw, than a team led by Marino. Marino to me is the poster boy for the proposition that "stats don't make greatness."
Offline Wade  
#5 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 6:36:05 AM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

Joined: 8/1/2009(UTC)
Location: nowhere of importance
Applause Given: 889
Applause Received: 912
Oh, and:
1. Tiki Barber was not a great player.
2. Tiki Barber is not someone whose opinion is worth a whole heckuva lot.

[grin1]
Offline OlHoss1884  
#6 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 7:24:21 AM(UTC)
Rank: Member

United States
Joined: 5/8/2013(UTC)
Location: Waukegan, IL
Applause Given: 91
Applause Received: 267
Though I would add this...Marino was no doubt a great quarterback. His teams suffered from mediocre defense through much of his tenure, especially toward the later part of Shula's career, when he wouldn't can his DC (Tom Olividatti) out of loyalty.

To me I think it comes down to who do you pick to be your guy in an all time draft to build your team around and I think most people would have the 5 I mentioned in addition to guys you mention somewhere in that list. And I doubt many of them would honestly pick an Eli Manning ahead of any of them, clutch in the playoffs or not.
Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#7 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 4:56:44 PM(UTC)
Rank: Senior Member

Canada
Joined: 9/8/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 446
Applause Received: 475
Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
Winning a ring doesn't make a "great" quarterback. Winning three or more does.

Dilfer wasn't. Williams wasn't. Starr was. Unitas was.

Should you be considered a "great" quarterback if you win none at all? That's a lot tougher call for me.

I do know I'd rather have a team led by Starr or Unitas or, yes, a team led by Bradshaw, than a team led by Marino. Marino to me is the poster boy for the proposition that "stats don't make greatness."


I don't buy that at all. That is like saying John Elway was a greater QB in the twilight of his career than in his prime based on the fact he finally won the Superbowl and finally had a complete team in front of him and a little luck.
Offline Wade  
#8 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 5:09:10 PM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

Joined: 8/1/2009(UTC)
Location: nowhere of importance
Applause Given: 889
Applause Received: 912
TheKanataThrilla said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't buy that at all. That is like saying John Elways was a greater QB in the twilight of his career than in his prime based on the fact he finally won the Superbowl and finally had a complete team in front of him and a little luck.


Actually, I didn't say anything re: Elway at all. I said that one super bowl win was not enough, by itself to qualify as "great". And I said three or more did.

Indeed, part of the reason I was silent on how to interpret "two SB wins" was my not wanting to speak to Elway. To my mind, Elway was overrated throughout his career. Despite his HOF position and his general acclaim, I wouldn't put him in the top 25 list.

Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#9 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 5:21:03 PM(UTC)
Rank: Senior Member

Canada
Joined: 9/8/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 446
Applause Received: 475
Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
Actually, I didn't say anything re: Elway at all. I said that one super bowl win was not enough, by itself to qualify as "great". And I said three or more did.

Indeed, part of the reason I was silent on how to interpret "two SB wins" was my not wanting to speak to Elway. To my mind, Elway was overrated throughout his career. Despite his HOF position and his general acclaim, I wouldn't put him in the top 25 list.



No you said "Should you be considered a "great" quarterback if you win none at all? That's a lot tougher call for me." To me it is not, because Elway was fucking great way before he won a Superbowl.

Top 25 what? Of all time? QBs?
Offline OlHoss1884  
#10 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 6:20:35 PM(UTC)
Rank: Member

United States
Joined: 5/8/2013(UTC)
Location: Waukegan, IL
Applause Given: 91
Applause Received: 267
Here's my list, in no particular order:

Graham
Baugh
Luckman
Unitas
Starr
P. Manning
Brady
Staubach
Marino
Elway
Bradshaw
Aikman
Favre
Tarkenton
Montana
Young
Fouts
Kelly
Moon
Stabler
Herber
Brees
Layne
Van Brocklin
and I reserve the last spot for A-Rod, but might be too short a career at this point to count.
Rss Feed 
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error


Fan Shout
The_Green_Ninja (3h) : Also, I'm not sure if you guys know. I'm a Memphis Tigers fan. Start looking a Riley Ferguson, QB. He is the real deal.
The_Green_Ninja (6h) : Big whoop, we have Aaron. We are going to win. H8ers.
Zero2Cool (8h) : Matthews, Burnett out; Guion, Jones doubtful
Zero2Cool (12h) : thank ya
macbob (23-Sep) : HAPPY BIRTHDAY, KEVIN (yesterday...sigh...)
Zero2Cool (23-Sep) : Sam Shields has already been ruled out for Sunday's game.
Zero2Cool (23-Sep) : For Lions, Ansah is out. LBs Levy and Williams doubtful and Van Noy questionable. TE Ebron and DE Taylor questionable, too.
Zero2Cool (23-Sep) : Jimmy G sprained his AC joint
Mucky Tundra (23-Sep) : Brady is suspended and 2nd stringer Jimmy Garoppolo suffered a ACL sprain in week 2
Mucky Tundra (23-Sep) : Patriots 3rd stringer QB Jacoby Brissett injuried and needs surgery
Zero2Cool (23-Sep) : Quinten Rollins is the only NFL cornerback to play 20 or more snaps in the slot this year without allowing a catch
Porforis (23-Sep) : Cutler has better luck completing to Packers players 10+ yards downfield than Rodgers does. I say only mostly facetiously.
Smokey (23-Sep) : HELLO DAVE
The_Green_Ninja (23-Sep) : You people would think we have a QB worse than Cutler.
dyeah_gb (22-Sep) : Bench him!!!!
Porforis (22-Sep) : WE'RE TEARING EACHOTHER APART! CAN'T YOU SEE WHAT THEY'RE DOING? THIS IS JUST WHAT THE BEARS WANT!
Zero2Cool (22-Sep) : you
The_Green_Ninja (22-Sep) : **** you ****s who are losing faith in our MVP qb. Go Aaron and Go Pack Go
Zero2Cool (22-Sep) : “I know I’ve got to play better, and I will,” Rodgers said, via ESPN.com.
Mucky Tundra (21-Sep) : Nearing the end of the line for Adrian?
Mucky Tundra (21-Sep) : Adrian Peterson to miss time with meniscus injury
Mucky Tundra (21-Sep) : is that a good thign?
Zero2Cool (20-Sep) : Wheel routes galore!
Zero2Cool (20-Sep) : 40 yard dash time: 4.37 seconds
Mucky Tundra (20-Sep) : that's interesting?
Zero2Cool (20-Sep) : Packers are having veteran RB C.J. Spiller in for a visit today, source said.
Zero2Cool (20-Sep) : Sure as hell hope Aaron Rodgers lights things up now.
Mucky Tundra (20-Sep) : damned if i know
Zero2Cool (20-Sep) : I bet if I cache'd it, we'd have no issues at all.
Zero2Cool (20-Sep) : I wonder how load intensive it would be if I added an auto refresh to this fan shout? Maybe refresh every 30 seconds...
Mucky Tundra (20-Sep) : *sad panda*
Zero2Cool (20-Sep) : Sucky Tundra
Mucky Tundra (20-Sep) : Goddamnit why did I pick the bears to win?
Packerchick (20-Sep) : bummer of a game the other night, but we will pick ourselves up and move on
Packerchick (20-Sep) : been gone too long havent I?
Please sign in to use Fan Shout

Road To Super Bowl LI
Sunday, Sep 11 @ 12:00 PM
at Jaguars
Sunday, Sep 18 @ 7:30 PM
at Vikings
Sunday, Sep 25 @ 12:00 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Oct 2 @ 12:00 AM
BYE
Sunday, Oct 9 @ 7:30 PM
GIANTS
Sunday, Oct 16 @ 3:25 PM
COWBOYS
Thursday, Oct 20 @ 7:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Oct 30 @ 12:00 PM
at Falcons
Sunday, Nov 6 @ 3:25 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Nov 13 @ 12:00 PM
at Titans
Sunday, Nov 20 @ 7:30 PM
at Redskins
Monday, Nov 28 @ 7:30 PM
at Eagles
Sunday, Dec 4 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Dec 11 @ 3:25 PM
SEAHAWKS
Sunday, Dec 18 @ 12:00 PM
at Bears
Saturday, Dec 24 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Jan 1 @ 12:00 PM
at Lions

Think About It
Think About It

Recent Topics
1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Cheesey

5h / Green Bay Packers Talk / The_Green_Ninja

6h / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan

24-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

23-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / PackFanWithTwins

23-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan

23-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / yooperfan

23-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / nyrpack

22-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / sschind

22-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / DarkaneRules

22-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / DarkaneRules

22-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / The_Green_Ninja

21-Sep / Around The NFL / Smokey

21-Sep / Green Bay Packers Talk / steveishere

21-Sep / Fantasy Sports Talk / Smokey


Packers Headlines