Discussion Board
Welcome Guest! You can login or register. Login or Register.

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
OlHoss1884  
#1 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 5:14:37 AM(UTC)
Specifically, he said that Eli will be regarded as better than Peyton because he has more rings. Jamie Dukes has echoed this asking rhetorically "which is a better indicator of greatness, MVP's or Championships?"

I for one am getting really sick of this stupid argument. Championships do NOT determine who is the better QB. They are, like anything else, a factor, but far from the only one. A great QB with a terrible defense will not win championships. Likewise an average QB with a great defense CAN win a championship.

Marino
Kelly
Tarkenton
Fouts
Moon

I will take them over Hostetler, Johnson, Dilfer, Williams, McMahaon any given Sunday. The whole count the rings thing is the kind of dumb argument people like Steelers fans make to rationalize why Bradshaw is supposed to be better than anyone.

I would submit that anyone who resorts to that argument, all other things being clearly unequal, is already admitting they a) have lost the argument and b) really don't know football.
Zero2Cool  
#2 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 5:39:19 AM(UTC)
I don't think I seen Terry "4 rings" Bradshaw mentioned ...
OlHoss1884  
#3 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 6:23:36 AM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't think I seen Terry "4 rings" Bradshaw mentioned ...


In what context? The 5 I listed never won a upper Bowl, the second 5 did. In the case of Bradshaw there is an argument to be made that he was an all time great. In my recollection he was there with Stabler as the best AFC QB during the 70s. I am just saying that rings are not the penultimate argument in determining who was the best, unless all else is kind of equal. Based on that logic, Robert Horry was better than Jordan, and Luc Longley was better than Wilt Chamberlain. Or Tim Wakefield was better than Cy Young and Scooter Rizzuto was better than Babe Ruth.

Wade  
#4 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 6:33:50 AM(UTC)
Winning a ring doesn't make a "great" quarterback. Winning three or more does.

Dilfer wasn't. Williams wasn't. Starr was. Unitas was.

Should you be considered a "great" quarterback if you win none at all? That's a lot tougher call for me.

I do know I'd rather have a team led by Starr or Unitas or, yes, a team led by Bradshaw, than a team led by Marino. Marino to me is the poster boy for the proposition that "stats don't make greatness."
Wade  
#5 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 6:36:05 AM(UTC)
Oh, and:
1. Tiki Barber was not a great player.
2. Tiki Barber is not someone whose opinion is worth a whole heckuva lot.

[grin1]
OlHoss1884  
#6 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 7:24:21 AM(UTC)
Though I would add this...Marino was no doubt a great quarterback. His teams suffered from mediocre defense through much of his tenure, especially toward the later part of Shula's career, when he wouldn't can his DC (Tom Olividatti) out of loyalty.

To me I think it comes down to who do you pick to be your guy in an all time draft to build your team around and I think most people would have the 5 I mentioned in addition to guys you mention somewhere in that list. And I doubt many of them would honestly pick an Eli Manning ahead of any of them, clutch in the playoffs or not.
TheKanataThrilla  
#7 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 4:56:44 PM(UTC)
Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
Winning a ring doesn't make a "great" quarterback. Winning three or more does.

Dilfer wasn't. Williams wasn't. Starr was. Unitas was.

Should you be considered a "great" quarterback if you win none at all? That's a lot tougher call for me.

I do know I'd rather have a team led by Starr or Unitas or, yes, a team led by Bradshaw, than a team led by Marino. Marino to me is the poster boy for the proposition that "stats don't make greatness."


I don't buy that at all. That is like saying John Elway was a greater QB in the twilight of his career than in his prime based on the fact he finally won the Superbowl and finally had a complete team in front of him and a little luck.
Wade  
#8 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 5:09:10 PM(UTC)
TheKanataThrilla said: Go to Quoted Post
I don't buy that at all. That is like saying John Elways was a greater QB in the twilight of his career than in his prime based on the fact he finally won the Superbowl and finally had a complete team in front of him and a little luck.


Actually, I didn't say anything re: Elway at all. I said that one super bowl win was not enough, by itself to qualify as "great". And I said three or more did.

Indeed, part of the reason I was silent on how to interpret "two SB wins" was my not wanting to speak to Elway. To my mind, Elway was overrated throughout his career. Despite his HOF position and his general acclaim, I wouldn't put him in the top 25 list.

TheKanataThrilla  
#9 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 5:21:03 PM(UTC)
Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
Actually, I didn't say anything re: Elway at all. I said that one super bowl win was not enough, by itself to qualify as "great". And I said three or more did.

Indeed, part of the reason I was silent on how to interpret "two SB wins" was my not wanting to speak to Elway. To my mind, Elway was overrated throughout his career. Despite his HOF position and his general acclaim, I wouldn't put him in the top 25 list.



No you said "Should you be considered a "great" quarterback if you win none at all? That's a lot tougher call for me." To me it is not, because Elway was fucking great way before he won a Superbowl.

Top 25 what? Of all time? QBs?
OlHoss1884  
#10 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2013 6:20:35 PM(UTC)
Here's my list, in no particular order:

Graham
Baugh
Luckman
Unitas
Starr
P. Manning
Brady
Staubach
Marino
Elway
Bradshaw
Aikman
Favre
Tarkenton
Montana
Young
Fouts
Kelly
Moon
Stabler
Herber
Brees
Layne
Van Brocklin
and I reserve the last spot for A-Rod, but might be too short a career at this point to count.
Rss Feed
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error

Fan Shout
TheKanataThrilla (36m) : Cousins is pretty good. Thankfully coaches were willing to lack past early draft rounds to play him.
wpr (1h) : Merry Thanksgiving to all. ;)
Zero2Cool (2h) : uffda udfa -- if you want your name changed, send me a Private Message with new name
yinzer (2h) : probably not, eh?
Zero2Cool (2h) : Wonder if Chargers fans say regime is wasting Rivers.
yinzer (3h) : old school
TheKanataThrilla (3h) : Fave non-GB players. Love QBs so going Brees and Rivers.
hardrocker950 (4h) : Hayward with a pick
TheKanataThrilla (4h) : Love Rivers. Wish he'd find a great team to play for.
nerdmann (4h) : Shit could turn around for us.
nerdmann (4h) : Loins lost and the 'Gurlz are losing (not to jinx)
yinzer (5h) : Ya got my vote on the name change, uffda udfa haha
TheKanataThrilla (5h) : The claim is highly sweaty balls..
uffda udfa (5h) : Wait... Pee Stain 76...would be better.
uffda udfa (5h) : Checked settings and couldn't get it done.
uffda udfa (5h) : Can I change my screen name from uffda to: Mike Daniels' Pee Stain ?
TheKanataThrilla (8h) : I hate the endzone rule, Detroit got hosed on that call.
uffda udfa (8h) : Happy Thanksgiving you homers! Ha ha.
TheKanataThrilla (11h) : Yoop I am up from New York. Ogdenbugh is about an hour drive. Close to Syracuse as well, but never checked out any football or basketball ga
Zero2Cool (11h) : Today's Birthdays: polargrizz (63)
TheKanataThrilla (11h) : Go Lions, Chargers and Redskins. No doubt they all will lose as I am terrible on picking the Thursday game.
TheKanataThrilla (11h) : My football pool buddies and I will be celebrating. We even have a bar that'll serve a turkey dinner.
TheKanataThrilla (11h) : Hahahaha
yooperfan (12h) : Happy Thanksgiving to all Packers fans from da U.P.of Michigan eh ??
TheKanataThrilla (12h) : Happy Thanks Giving to my friends in the South. We should all be thankful for Aaron Rodgers for obvious reasons. Go Pack Go!!!
Nonstopdrivel (14h) : Happy Thanksgiving to you too.
buckeyepackfan (18h) : HAPPY THANKSGIVING PACKER FANS!!
uffda udfa (21h) : Sam Shields wants to return to NFL in 2018. Faces 2 game suspension.
uffda udfa (23-Nov) : Lions sign Dwight Freeney
Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : @Chiefs We have signed free agent cornerback Darrelle Revis.
Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : Lions sign DT Christian Ringo to the 53-man roster from the practice squad, takes Khyri Thornton's spot
Smokey (21-Nov) : Don't look back, I'm gaining beast ! LOL
beast (21-Nov) : Thanks Smokey!
Zero2Cool (21-Nov) : I'm not confident vs Steelers. But they are up/down a lot.
dhazer (21-Nov) : I actually had a Steeler fan ask me why the stadium was still packed at the end of the game on Sunday. I said we back our team no matter wha
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2017 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
SEAHAWKS
Sunday, Sep 17 @ 7:30 PM
at Falcons
Sunday, Sep 24 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:25 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Oct 8 @ 3:25 PM
at Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 15 @ 12:00 PM
at Vikings
Sunday, Oct 22 @ 12:00 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 AM
- BYE -
Monday, Nov 6 @ 7:30 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
at Bears
Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
RAVENS
Sunday, Nov 26 @ 7:30 PM
at Steelers
Sunday, Dec 3 @ 12:00 PM
BUCCANEERS
Sunday, Dec 10 @ 12:00 PM
at Browns
Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
at Panthers
Saturday, Dec 23 @ 7:30 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Dec 31 @ 12:00 PM
at Lions
Think About It
Think About It
Recent Topics
2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

3h / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

9h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dhazer

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / DoddPower

22h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Cheesey

23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

23-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / uffda udfa

22-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

22-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

22-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

22-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / uffda udfa

22-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

22-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

22-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

21-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

Headlines