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Offline MintBaconDrivel  
#1 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 12:23:06 PM(UTC)
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LombardiAve wrote:
The grand experiment that is the Green Bay Packers' offensive line begins in less than a week as the team opens its training camp — a camp that will feature the shifting of former right tackle Bryan Bulaga and right guard Josh Sitton to the left side. Packers Head Coach Mike McCarthy announced a [...]

Message modified by moderator Monday, July 15, 2013 12:56:56 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline DoddPower  
#2 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 12:51:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: MintBaconDrivel Go to Quoted Post



Well, that 'article' said a whole lot of nothing. heh heh. Wanna Box? Wanna Box?
Offline texaspackerbacker  
#3 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 1:34:15 PM(UTC)
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I sorta agree about the article because it over-emphasizes the right to left switch. The title, however, is very valid. Bulaga stunk last year before the injury - at least before it was publicized - for no known reason. Hell yeah, he needs to make a great leap - back to 2011 form anyway. THAT was my #1 on that thread of things of importance for the upcoming season.
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Offline DoddPower  
#4 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 3:51:09 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker Go to Quoted Post
I sorta agree about the article because it over-emphasizes the right to left switch. The title, however, is very valid. Bulaga stunk last year before the injury - at least before it was publicized - for no known reason. Hell yeah, he needs to make a great leap - back to 2011 form anyway. THAT was my #1 on that thread of things of importance for the upcoming season.


My main point was the article was mostly just "Hopefully Brian Bulaga plays well next season!" Didn't seem to have much substance or insight, rather just stating an almost rhetorical point. Perhaps I'm being too critical though.
Offline yooperfan  
#5 Posted : Monday, July 15, 2013 5:52:56 PM(UTC)
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I'm not a big fan of Bulaga but hopefully he will be better than Newhouse who I'm definitely not a fan of.
This whole offensive line debacle that TT, Mike McCarthy and Campen can't get squared away is frustrating.
We have the best QB in the game and a shithouse offensive line to protect him.
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TheKanataThrilla on 7/16/2013(UTC)
Offline DarkaneRules  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:47:00 AM(UTC)
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With Aaron Rodgers behind center, any left tackle that is just average or below is not good enough.
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Offline beast  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:59:54 PM(UTC)
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When fully healthy, I think Bulaga did VERY VERY well. My question is he healthy, will he stay healthy and can he handle the quickness/speed of that side.

But as long as he stays healthy, I'm still feel more comfortable (as of right now) with Bulaga at LT than whom ever the RT will be.

Newhouse has flashed potential and at times has surprised how well he's shut down a guys first attempt, but at other times guys have seemed to go right around him. And honestly the thing that bugs me the most, is the second and 3rd attempt efforts.

Newhouse vs Jard Allen was a bit annoying for me to watch, Newhouse at times would surprise me and be able to get to Allen and his speed/quickness and stop him with no problem on the first attempt which is suppose to be the hard part. Then Allen beats New House on the second attempt for no other reason than Newhouse let his guard down and Allen got up and kept rushing. He just gave more effort, it wasn't because of talent or an awesome trick or move... just second and third effort.

Barclay, Barclay needs some help in pass protection (at least as a rookie) because he's not quick/fast enough to protect from the speed rush. But once he locks on he normally shuts the guy down pretty well not always but good enough by locking onto the defender and his run blocking is pretty to very good.

Barclay reminds me of poor man version of Mark Tauscher... though I have to be honest, I don't remember Tauscher rookie year well... and therefor don't feel like I can compare apples to apples on that to say Barclay could grow to be as good as Tausher, but if I had to guess right now, I'd say Barclay could become a better run blocker (if he isn't already), but won't be as good of a pass blocker than Tausher. But again that's purely a guess.

If Barclay doesn't earn the starting RT spot, I wouldn't mind seeing him get a shot at RG.

And Mike McCarthy said Lang can play Center, (and Barclay has practice at Center though I've heard he puts one into the dirt every so often) and let those 3 compete for C and RG.

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porky88 on 7/17/2013(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, July 16, 2013 8:12:09 PM(UTC)
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I don't see why this is such a big question.

Bulaga's played LT before. He can get it done. I like our OL. Looks like we might even have some decent depth, despite Campen breaking the leg of our new C on the first practice of spring.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline porky88  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 6:36:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: beast Go to Quoted Post
When fully healthy, I think Bulaga did VERY VERY well. My question is he healthy, will he stay healthy and can he handle the quickness/speed of that side.

But as long as he stays healthy, I'm still feel more comfortable (as of right now) with Bulaga at LT than whom ever the RT will be.

I echo some of these thoughts. Bulaga gets a bad rap because of one-half of football against Seattle. Beyond that half, he's been a rock solid player for this organization since 2011. The tape bares this out.

My worry, however, is that you're taking a very good right tackle and exchanging him for an average left tackle. Baltimore did this with Michael Oher, who didn't have the technique or quickness to play the left side. It stunted his growth and he hasn't been the same player since (on left or right side).

Bulaga has the intelligence and technique to play the position, but I'm not sure the natural ability is there. I worry the Packers are taking him down the same path Baltimore did with Oher.
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Zero2Cool on 7/18/2013(UTC)
Offline nerdmann  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 8:30:51 PM(UTC)
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The only reason they moved Bulaga to the right side, was because he had shorter arms than Sherrod.

Bulaga doesn't even make my list of worries about this team.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Offline DoddPower  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, July 17, 2013 9:50:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
The only reason they moved Bulaga to the right side, was because he had shorter arms than Sherrod.

Bulaga doesn't even make my list of worries about this team.


I think he'll be OK to average over the course of the entire season at left tackle, which means sometimes he'll be pretty damn good, and others he'll be pretty damn bad.

Overall, I'm still expecting an average offensive line, at best, and that's without any injuries. That's enough for the Packers to compete, but it doesn't make things easy.

Bulaga would probably be a better overall player at RT, but the Packers are desperate for better play at LT, so they are willing to take that risk, apparently. Hopefully it works out.
Offline OlHoss1884  
#12 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 8:44:38 AM(UTC)
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I am also a little less concerned about some of the pass protection with the theoretically better RB's making their life easier. Years ago, John Madden wrote in his book that he always liked drafting OL and Al Davis always liked drafting DB's, and that worked for those great Raider teams because those were the hardest positions to adjust to at the pro level. For as much as I like TT's drafts and the all over depth of the team, OL seems to be less than his strong suit. Even with devoting high round picks to some at these positions, we never seem to get much better along the line. I hope that trend changes going forward or A-Rod is going to have a much shorter career than I would like.
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yooperfan on 7/18/2013(UTC)
Offline beast  
#13 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 11:33:32 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
The only reason they moved Bulaga to the right side, was because he had shorter arms than Sherrod.

Bulaga doesn't even make my list of worries about this team.


I thought they moved Bulaga to RT because they had a healthy LT Clifton and an injury RT Tausher.

I think they kept Bulaga over there because he's clearly a top RT in the NFL and because the other OTs (Newhouse Sherrod) didn't have near the power and might struggle more against powerful bull rushers which they might see more of on the right side.

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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#14 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 11:58:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: porky88 Go to Quoted Post
I echo some of these thoughts. Bulaga gets a bad rap because of one-half of football against Seattle. Beyond that half, he's been a rock solid player for this organization since 2011. The tape bares this out.

My worry, however, is that you're taking a very good right tackle and exchanging him for an average left tackle. Baltimore did this with Michael Oher, who didn't have the technique or quickness to play the left side. It stunted his growth and he hasn't been the same player since (on left or right side).

Bulaga has the intelligence and technique to play the position, but I'm not sure the natural ability is there. I worry the Packers are taking him down the same path Baltimore did with Oher.


I tend to disagree with this. Bulaga was really good in 2011. However, in 2012, he was fairly bad BEFORE his injury knocked him out for the season. Maybe he was somehow playing hurt, but that wasn't ever publicized, so the big question in my mind is can he get back to 2011 form? I'm about 63% sure that he can and will.

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Offline agopackgo4  
#15 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 5:26:25 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: yooperfan Go to Quoted Post
I'm not a big fan of Bulaga but hopefully he will be better than Newhouse who I'm definitely not a fan of.
quote]

If he will be better than Newhouse shouldn't even be a question
Offline yooperfan  
#16 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2013 9:26:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: agopackgo4 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: yooperfan Go to Quoted Post
I'm not a big fan of Bulaga but hopefully he will be better than Newhouse who I'm definitely not a fan of.
quote]

If he will be better than Newhouse shouldn't even be a question[/quote

You are right, just about every tackle in the NFL is better than Newhouse.
Bulaga will be a better left tackle.
I lost my head there for a second.

Offline Wade  
#17 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 5:56:25 AM(UTC)
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My thoughts on the OL are probably pretty well known, but I haven't stated them in a month or so.....

Newhouse: Average. Substantially better at RT than LT. I think his biggest problem at LT was that he was still thinking too much instead of moving naturally,and that slowed his movement. I think he won't have that over-thinking problem on the right side. I'm okay with this move, as he will be more of a positive contributor than he was.
Lang: Overrated. Mediocre at LG. Hopefully will be better at RG. Position will definitely be worse. Hopefully he will be no more of a negative on right than on left.
Dietrich-Smith: Serviceable. Nothing to get excited about for bad or good.
Sitton: A stud at RG. Hopefully he'll be a stud at LG, too. But part of me says the net effect will be downgrade (the loss of Sitton at RG won't be made up, quite, by the improvement at LG as he learns the new position).
Bulaga: If not for Lang, IMO would be most overrated player on the line. I just don't see what everyone else seems to have seen in 2011. I thought he was an average RT. I think Newhouse at RT may prove better than Bulaga, and I don't think he will be worse. Maybe Bulaga's one of those guys who will be better at LT than at RT. And event if he isn't, he may well be better at LT than Newhouse was.

Back-ups: I refuse to get excited about what is, in the end, nothing more than "potential" as yet unrealized. If they come on and perform well when needed, I'll be happy. If one of them beats out Lang, I wouldn't be surprised. And, who knows, maybe the team will get lucky and find a Sitton-esque talent among them to replace Bulaga and/or Newhouse. But I'm not going to expect any of that. I see them as "potential" now, and I expect that's what most of them will still be in both October and January.

And one thing I just don't buy from Thompson/McCarthy/Campen on the OL anymore is the "great potential" argument when it is made about an offensive lineman.

Summary: I'll be ecstatic if an improvement is somehow found for Lang. I'm very leery of moving the all-pro Sitton because it may negate some of the contribution by the one undeniable stud on the line. I'm not sold on either Bulaga or Newhouse, but have no problem with the switch since I don't see anyone better than either on the roster yet.

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Offline Wade  
#18 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 5:57:25 AM(UTC)
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My thoughts on the OL are probably pretty well known, but I haven't stated them in a month or so.....

Newhouse: Average. Substantially better at RT than LT. I think his biggest problem at LT was that he was still thinking too much instead of moving naturally,and that slowed his movement. I think he won't have that over-thinking problem on the right side. I'm okay with this move, as he will be more of a positive contributor than he was.
Lang: Overrated. Mediocre at LG. Hopefully will be better at RG. Position will definitely be worse. Hopefully he will be no more of a negative on right than on left.
Dietrich-Smith: Serviceable. Nothing to get excited about for bad or good.
Sitton: A stud at RG. Hopefully he'll be a stud at LG, too. But part of me says the net effect will be downgrade (the loss of Sitton at RG won't be made up, quite, by the improvement at LG as he learns the new position).
Bulaga: If not for Lang, IMO would be most overrated player on the line. I just don't see what everyone else seems to have seen in 2011. I thought he was an average RT. I think Newhouse at RT may prove better than Bulaga, and I don't think he will be worse. Maybe Bulaga's one of those guys who will be better at LT than at RT. And event if he isn't, he may well be better at LT than Newhouse was.

Back-ups: I refuse to get excited about what is, in the end, nothing more than "potential" as yet unrealized. If they come on and perform well when needed, I'll be happy. If one of them beats out Lang, I wouldn't be surprised. And, who knows, maybe the team will get lucky and find a Sitton-esque talent among them to replace Bulaga and/or Newhouse. But I'm not going to expect any of that. I see them as "potential" now, and I expect that's what most of them will still be in both October and January.

And one thing I just don't buy from Thompson/McCarthy/Campen on the OL anymore is the "great potential" argument when it is made about an offensive lineman.

Summary: I'll be ecstatic if an improvement is somehow found for Lang. I'm very leery of moving the all-pro Sitton because it may negate some of the contribution by the one undeniable stud on the line. I'm not sold on either Bulaga or Newhouse, but have no problem with the switch since I don't see anyone better than either on the roster yet.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
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Offline DoddPower  
#19 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 9:08:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
My thoughts on the OL are probably pretty well known, but I haven't stated them in a month or so.....

Newhouse: Average. Substantially better at RT than LT. I think his biggest problem at LT was that he was still thinking too much instead of moving naturally,and that slowed his movement. I think he won't have that over-thinking problem on the right side. I'm okay with this move, as he will be more of a positive contributor than he was.
Lang: Overrated. Mediocre at LG. Hopefully will be better at RG. Position will definitely be worse. Hopefully he will be no more of a negative on right than on left.
Dietrich-Smith: Serviceable. Nothing to get excited about for bad or good.
Sitton: A stud at RG. Hopefully he'll be a stud at LG, too. But part of me says the net effect will be downgrade (the loss of Sitton at RG won't be made up, quite, by the improvement at LG as he learns the new position).
Bulaga: If not for Lang, IMO would be most overrated player on the line. I just don't see what everyone else seems to have seen in 2011. I thought he was an average RT. I think Newhouse at RT may prove better than Bulaga, and I don't think he will be worse. Maybe Bulaga's one of those guys who will be better at LT than at RT. And event if he isn't, he may well be better at LT than Newhouse was.

Back-ups: I refuse to get excited about what is, in the end, nothing more than "potential" as yet unrealized. If they come on and perform well when needed, I'll be happy. If one of them beats out Lang, I wouldn't be surprised. And, who knows, maybe the team will get lucky and find a Sitton-esque talent among them to replace Bulaga and/or Newhouse. But I'm not going to expect any of that. I see them as "potential" now, and I expect that's what most of them will still be in both October and January.

And one thing I just don't buy from Thompson/McCarthy/Campen on the OL anymore is the "great potential" argument when it is made about an offensive lineman.

Summary: I'll be ecstatic if an improvement is somehow found for Lang. I'm very leery of moving the all-pro Sitton because it may negate some of the contribution by the one undeniable stud on the line. I'm not sold on either Bulaga or Newhouse, but have no problem with the switch since I don't see anyone better than either on the roster yet.





Brian Bulaga undoubtedly played very well many times. I really don't how some missed that. He definitely had a couple of bad games in 2012, and then got hurt. I'm certainly not going to use a few bad games to judge a player as a whole, and the play calling also has to take at least a small percentage of that blame. Bulaga was integral to a Super Bowl run and win, and played very well for stretches. He was somewhat inconsistent, but how many offensive linemen aren't? Perhaps the elite players, but there aren't many of those and most teams won't have even one, especially when drafting late every year. Make no mistake, Bulaga was a good to very good right tackle, and at times, even better. Some exceptions here and there doesn't change that.

With that being said, I don't expect him to be as good at left tackle, unfortunately. I guess I can understand the logic of doing so, but I think Bulaga is much better suited for the right side, just as Newhouse probably is. It's a fairly typical problem in the NFL. There just aren't many really good left tackles out there, which is why the most recent draft panned out as it did.

As I said, I will never expect anything other than an average offensive line under the current coaching structure. Average is probably the best-case scenario. Hopefully they can actually achieve average, because if they do, the Packers will be right in the mix of contenders.
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Offline nerdmann  
#20 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 1:39:03 PM(UTC)
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Lang is gonna bust out this year. Keep in mind, he played one armed most of last season.

As for Bulaga, I'm not even concerned.
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Offline agopackgo4  
#21 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 5:41:32 PM(UTC)
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I think sometimes people hear that 'Bulaga is good' and they just repeat it. Has anyone seen the sack numbers from last year? There are holes in this offensive line. And at times that certainly was Bulaga. There is no really good player on this O line. Sitton is the closest thing...I think.
Offline porky88  
#22 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 8:53:05 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: agopackgo4 Go to Quoted Post
I think sometimes people hear that 'Bulaga is good' and they just repeat it. Has anyone seen the sack numbers from last year? There are holes in this offensive line. And at times that certainly was Bulaga. There is no really good player on this O line. Sitton is the closest thing...I think.

He gave up 5 ½ sacks last season. I agree that’s a lot for nine games, but at least two of them occurred in just one game. I believe two more came against San Francisco and (maybe) New Orleans, respectively. In other words, he had a very bad September, but one bad month of football doesn’t destroy his body of work.

Perhaps I’m reading too much into this, but I believe the debacle in Seattle is when people made up their minds about Bryan Bulaga. That game was on national television and had a controversial ending in which the Packers got the raw deal. Everything was put under a microscope (namely Bulaga and Mike McCarthy’s play calling).

I will concede that he took a step back in 2012. I don’t think he took a significant step back, though. After September, he was a competent player, particularly against Houston, Indianapolis, and Jacksonville. Find yourself a copy of the Ram game from last year, and watch him dominate Chris Long.

I’m going to re-focus on 2011 because of Wade’s comments.

Bulaga gave up 18 pressures in 2011. I think Pro Football Focus put this number at 24. Either way, both are very good numbers. By comparisons, Marshall Newhouse gave up 42 pressures in 2012 and 41 in 2011.

Newhouse won’t last another season in Green Bay unless he drastically improves. He’s too soft, especially as a run blocker, to play guard. He doesn’t have the physical ability to play left tackle. I guess that leaves right tackle, but the Packers like to run right, and Newhouse can’t run block.

I’m admittedly worried about the o-line because I don’t think the Packers did anything to make it better. If Bulaga plays well at left tackle (and I do have reservations about this), they still are stuck with Newhouse or Don Barclay at right tackle.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#23 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2013 9:06:13 PM(UTC)
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Here are the stats for Bryan Bualga for 2012.
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