Green Bay Packers Forum

Join Our Green Bay Packers Interactive Community!

We have been providing fans with the best source of Packers information since 2006!
Your participation is greatly anticipated!
Login or Register.
2 Pages12>
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline walleye  
#1 Posted : Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:00:24 AM(UTC)
walleye

Rank: 5th Round Draft Pick

Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)


Green Bay - Brian Brohm's failure to perform anywhere near commensurate with a second-round draft choice has left the Green Bay Packers looking at few good options behind Aaron Rodgers.

Obviously, the jury remains out on Rodgers. If it turns out that he can't play, the Packers will be starting all over again.

But entering the exhibition finale tonight against Tennessee, the Packers find themselves in an even more unenviable position at backup quarterback.

They know Rodgers' injury history and scrambling style suggest he won't be able to last 16 games. In the Brett Favre era, not many in the organization even thought twice about the No. 2 quarterback. They do now, or at least they better.

The problem is Brohm.

Ted Thompson made the decision last winter that he didn't want Trent Green, Josh McCown, Billy Volek, Gus Frerotte, Joey Harrington, Mark Brunell, David Carr or Quinn Gray, among other free agents.

Shortly before the draft, Thompson made a lukewarm offer of one-year, $1 million to Daunte Culpepper knowing full well he wouldn't take it. He would have been a terrible fit anyway.

Thompson also had the opportunity to acquire Sage Rosenfels from the Houston Texans in exchange for a second-round pick.

Thompson evaluated all the veterans and reached the conclusion that he would prefer drafting two players from what the Packers regarded as a good class of quarterbacks. That took guts, but it made some sense because dipping into the recycling bin generally isn't a great idea.

Not going after Rosenfels was an entirely different matter.

Rosenfels, the backup to Matt Schaub, has improved steadily for eight years. In five starts last season (84.8 passer rating), several scouts say he demonstrated starting ability.

Perhaps the Packers figured Rosenfels was too good and might overshadow Rodgers. More likely, Thompson absolutely refused to part with a second-round pick.

For a second-round choice, the Packers would have been purchasing stability at the key position. There's a price to be paid for a veteran quarterback capable of winning games, but Thompson wouldn't pay it.

After acquiring the No. 56 pick in the trade for Corey Williams, Thompson took Brohm. Four slots later in the second, he took cornerback Pat Lee. The way it looks now, neither player will contribute much in 2008.

Most personnel people would agree that with the 56th pick a team should be able to secure its No. 2 quarterback position. But after five weeks of practice it's becoming more and more clear that Brohm isn't up to the task.

All summer, Thompson and the coaches have been giving Brohm the benefit of the doubt, but in the last week or so his game has taken a turn for the worse. Instead of throwing the ball with confidence, he started aiming it.

Brohm seemed exasperated with himself just as the coaches seemed exasperated with him.

So tonight, after Rodgers and most of the starters exit midway in the first quarter, Brohm has the thankless assignment of standing behind the No. 2 line taking on a Titans' defense that was fifth-ranked in '07.

Fortunately for Brohm, three of Tennessee's defensive starters are out with injury. Still, with the No. 1s scheduled to play a series or even two of the second half, the Titans' order of substitution makes it difficult for Brohm to look good.

At this point, the game seems too fast for Brohm. His reads are late, and when the ball does come out, his passes frequently are off line. His accuracy, regarded as an asset at Louisville, has been anything but pinpoint.

Brohm tends to float his passes instead of driving them downfield. His arm strength isn't even in the same league as Rodgers' and is no better than Matt Flynn, the seventh-round draft pick (No. 209) from Louisiana State who is stealing his thunder. Remember, the most common pre-draft knock on Flynn from scouts was limited strength.

Whereas Flynn has become more and more decisive and is now gunning the ball with a tight spiral, Brohm tends to hesitate and frequently throws waffle balls. Flynn's release appears quicker, too.

At mid-week, three executives in personnel for NFL teams agreed to rate the eight rookie quarterbacks with 25 or more pass attempts based on what they've seen on exhibition tape. The scouts graded the players that they saw on a scale of 1 to 10.

NFC scout: Chad Henne, Miami (second round-57th pick), 6; Matt Ryan, Atlanta (D1-3), 5; Colt Brennan, Washington (D6-186), 5; Joe Flacco, Baltimore (D1-18), 4; John David Booty, Minnesota (D5-137), 3; Brohm, 3; Kevin O'Connell, New England (D3-94), 2; and Flynn, 2.

AFC scout: Ryan, 5; O'Connell, 5; Brennan, 3; Flacco, 3; Booty, 2; Brohm, 2; Henne, 2.

AFC scout: Flynn, 7; Ryan, 7; Booty, 6; Brennan, 6; Flacco, 6; Brohm, 5; Henne, 5.

Although two of the three scouts only saw seven of the eight, it can be said that Brohm, the third quarterback selected, is at or near the bottom after three exhibition games.

Pittsburgh's Dennis Dixon (D5-156) also has been impressive but only the NFC scout had seen him and handed him a 4. The best undrafted rookie might be Chicago's Caleb Hanie, who earned a 4 from the NFC executive.

"I expected a little more," one of the AFC scouts said, referring to Brohm. "I thought he'd be game-ready, that he'd walk into that No. 2 job and even press Aaron. Not as accurate as I thought. Little slow on the drop. Very average mobility."

That scout rated Brohm as the best quarterback in the draft and said he wasn't about to change this early. Another personnel man didn't like him in April and likes him even less now.

"I don't see a quick release and I'm not impressed with his arm at all," he said. "He doesn't have any zap on the ball. You can develop accuracy and footwork, but not that. He was so well-coached at Louisville and was a savvy player there. Now he's not even savvy."

Because the Packers had Brohm and Henne closely rated, their choice of Brohm was far from unanimous (they also considered passing on Brohm and taking Kevin O'Connell in the mid-rounds). Henne has won the No. 2 job behind Chad Pennington, beating out Josh McCown and John Beck.

The most vital job for any NFL decision-maker is to split hairs between players such as Brohm and Henne. The successful ones build good teams, and the unsuccessful ones eventually get fired.

Yes, Brohm's passer rating is a lowly 35.8, but it's preposterous to make a judgment after three exhibition games. He hasn't been beyond the No. 1 line. He hasn't had a full week of game-planning and repetition as a starter.

Yet, this should be interjected: Of all the quarterbacks taken in the first two rounds over the last 20 years who threw at least 30 passes in their rookie exhibition campaigns, only Jake Plummer (15.5, Arizona, 1997) had a lower passer rating than Brohm does now.

Unless the Packers completely missed on Brohm, he has a chance to gain size and strength, rebuild his confidence and become as comfortable in Green Bay as he was at Louisville, where his NFL passer rating was 106.4.

But that's for another day. The Packers have a season to play, and more than likely somebody other than Rodgers will be taking snaps for them in the not-too-distant future.

If Rodgers went down against Minnesota, Flynn would have more of a chance than Brohm. In his one season starting at LSU, Flynn showed he could ad-lib in jail-break situations. He's more physical than Brohm, seems to be much more resourceful and might be every bit as athletic.

If the Packers had a week to prepare a rookie to start, perhaps Mike McCarthy would think that he could get more out of Brohm.

It's instructive that in 2005, when Rodgers was awful during his first summer in Green Bay, the Packers kept him No. 2 all year over Craig Nall even though Nall was more capable of getting them through a game. The main holdover from '05 is Thompson, and he tends to stand by his draft picks.

Brohm's struggles might well have waylaid the Packers' plans to sign a veteran, too, although they claim not to be interested.

The Packers will never cut Brohm, and if they cut Flynn they'd not only run the risk of losing him on waivers ("I think he would get picked up," an AFC scout said) but also their best chance to get out of a game, at least in September.

Any veteran coming in now would receive almost no time with the No. 1 offense and might take several weeks just to learn the terminology.

Among the better quarterbacks possibly headed for waivers Saturday are Chris Simms in Tampa Bay, Beck or McCown in Miami, Brooks Bollinger in Minnesota, Bruce Gradkowski in St. Louis and Anthony Wright with the New York Giants.

More than likely, the Packers will plunge ahead with a depth chart reading Rodgers, Brohm and Flynn. They need it to be good enough.


my thoughts:
I think it's good enough although i would like to see Flyn as second string, i like the thoughts of bringing in a vet but, im in it for the long hall!!
packerbacker-cheeshead for life!!
UserPostedImage
Here Fishy Fishy
Sponsor
Offline chibiabo  
#2 Posted : Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:32:57 AM(UTC)
chibiabo

Rank: Fresh Cheesehead

Joined: 8/8/2008(UTC)


:whipitgood: Think you are being a bit pessimistic regarding Brohm. Think tonight will be decision night for Mike McCarthy regarding the QB situation. Whether Brohm is NFL ready or not will be a decision reached by Ted Thompson & Mike McCarthy and not the fans. They may see things we don't in a player. Does that mean I'm comfortable with just Brohm and Flynn as back-ups? No! Recall when Magic went down and Brett entered his first game; the groans could be heard all the way back to Atlanta..
blank
Offline walleye  
#3 Posted : Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:39:59 AM(UTC)
walleye

Rank: 5th Round Draft Pick

Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
:whipitgood: Think you are being a bit pessimistic regarding Brohm. Think tonight will be decision night for Mike McCarthy regarding the QB situation. Whether Brohm is NFL ready or not will be a decision reached by Ted Thompson & Mike McCarthy and not the fans. They may see things we don't in a player. Does that mean I'm comfortable with just Brohm and Flynn as back-ups? No! Recall when Magic went down and Brett entered his first game; the groans could be heard all the way back to Atlanta..


Yes i understand what you are saying, from what i have seen i'm more impressed with Flyn over brohm, but i'm ok with TT&MM decision either way!
UserPostedImage
Here Fishy Fishy
Offline bigfog  
#4 Posted : Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:40:47 AM(UTC)
bigfog

Rank: Fresh Cheesehead

Joined: 8/8/2008(UTC)


A second for Rosenfels is way too much, I don't blame Ted Thompson for saying "no thanks". Actually, he probably just hung up after they gave the offer, more his style.
"I wouldn't root for the Minnesota Vikings to win a chess match against Nazi Germany."
Offline warhawk  
#5 Posted : Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:36:32 AM(UTC)
warhawk

Rank: 3rd Round Draft Pick

Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 1
Applause Received: 230

It amazes me that Ted Thompson gets second guessed on about every decision he makes. This thread sounds just like '05 when MANY fans was killing this guy for every move he made.

One thing I am most certain of now more than at anytime since Ted Thompson's arrival. He knows more about football FAR AND AWAY better than any fan and certainly any poster here. He's got the record to back that up.

While we are not in a great spot right now at backup QB the bottom line is any of the good teams out there are pretty much screwed if their starting QB goes down as well. Anybody think NE will do anything at all if Brady hits the dirt? For the most part if a teams No. 1 QB bites it you can look to next year (unless it's only a couple games ).

I mean does anybody think we would be going anywhere with Carr, or Gray, or even Mark Brunell or Culpepper? Those guys are all looking for work for a reason. We don't win the Division or make the playoffs with any of these guys in the line up anyhow.

I didn't see much out of Rodgers the first month he was on the field his rookie year either. Haven't seen much out of ANY rookie QB EVER in that short of period. Doesn't mean the guy won't become a player.
"The train is leaving the station."
Offline minnypacker  
#6 Posted : Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:44:15 AM(UTC)
minnypacker

Rank: Fresh Cheesehead

Joined: 8/12/2008(UTC)


Is Gradowski still able to be on a practice squad? If so, that might not be a bad idea?

Of course Rattay and Nall are also out there as guys who could come in if Rodgers was out for a while.
blank
Offline Greg C.  
#7 Posted : Thursday, August 28, 2008 1:04:36 PM(UTC)
Greg C.

Rank: Pro Bowl

Joined: 8/9/2008(UTC)
Location: Marquette, Michigan

Applause Received: 48

We'll see what happens tonight, but I think it might be a good thing for Flynn to get the #2 job. It could take the pressure off Brohm, or it could give him a kick in the tail. It would shake things up. Flynn has more big-game experience anyway, having won a national championship.
blank
Offline walleye  
#8 Posted : Thursday, August 28, 2008 1:06:56 PM(UTC)
walleye

Rank: 5th Round Draft Pick

Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)


Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
We'll see what happens tonight, but I think it might be a good thing for Flynn to get the #2 job. It could take the pressure off Brohm, or it could give him a kick in the tail. It would shake things up. Flynn has more big-game experience anyway, having won a national championship.

well stated :thumbleft:
UserPostedImage
Here Fishy Fishy
Offline mi_keys  
#9 Posted : Thursday, August 28, 2008 1:09:06 PM(UTC)
mi_keys

Rank: 2nd Round Draft Pick

Joined: 8/8/2008(UTC)

Applause Given: 237
Applause Received: 370

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
We'll see what happens tonight, but I think it might be a good thing for Flynn to get the #2 job. It could take the pressure off Brohm, or it could give him a kick in the tail. It would shake things up. Flynn has more big-game experience anyway, having won a national championship.


very true
Born and bred a cheesehead
Offline zombieslayer  
#10 Posted : Thursday, August 28, 2008 2:11:43 PM(UTC)
zombieslayer

Rank: Most Valuable Player

Joined: 8/7/2008(UTC)
Location: San Francisco

Applause Given: 778
Applause Received: 495

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
It amazes me thatTed Thompsongets second guessed on about every decision he makes. This thread sounds just like '05 when MANY fans was killing this guy for every move he made.

One thing I am most certain of now more than at anytime since Ted Thompson's arrival. He knows more about football FAR AND AWAY better than any fan and certainly any poster here. He's got the record to back that up.



I want to make one thing clear - NOBODY is perfect.

A true fan wants his team to win. He's allowed to second guess. He's allowed to wonder if we did the right thing.

Does Ted Thompson walk on water? No. Does he have a good track record? Yes. Actually, quite good. But in '08, he's already made two pretty bad mistakes - one was getting rid of Corey Williams and the other was not kissing and making up with Brett Favre. The first, I think nobody in the right mind will disagree with but the second of course is open for debate.

Brohm remains to be seen. He's had a very bad preseason, but we haven't seen him in real live action. He could be a flop, or he could be a steal. I wouldn't panic about a bad preseason performance, because he's had an excellent college track record. But as of now, I've been more impressed by Flynn than Brohm.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)

2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. Ted Thompson Mike McCarthy Aaron Rodgers
Offline Trippster  
#11 Posted : Thursday, August 28, 2008 2:39:40 PM(UTC)
Trippster

Rank: 5th Round Draft Pick

Joined: 8/8/2008(UTC)

Applause Received: 10

This is another subject I talked about with an insider last night.

Brohm is not grasping the offense mentally, at ALL.
Flynn has grasp of it quickly.


Also, he talked about how the defense was going to struggle. no ruch. only two sacks all preseason. How losing Williams was much more of a big deal than anyone realizes. That in order to put pressure on the QB we will need to blitz much more and that would require Rouse to do it as Bigby is not as fast to the QB. interesting takes.
"Let Your Light Shine!"
Offline Zero2Cool  
#12 Posted : Thursday, August 28, 2008 2:42:07 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool

Rank: Legend

Yahoo! Fantasy Football - Gold: 2009FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Silver: 2011ESPN NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2013

United States
Joined: 10/13/2006(UTC)
Location: Green Bay, WI

Applause Given: 1,990
Applause Received: 2,283

Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
This is another subject I talked about with an insider last night.

Brohm is not grasping the offense mentally, at ALL.
Flynn has grasp of it quickly.


Also, he talked about how the defense was going to struggle. no ruch. only two sacks all preseason. How losing Williams was much more of a big deal than anyone realizes. That in order to put pressure on the QB we will need to blitz much more and that would require Rouse to do it as Bigby is not as fast to the QB. interesting takes.


See, McCarthy said that mentally Brohm has grasped the offense better than he's seen anyone. That's either a lie or one helluva slam on some others lol
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

UserPostedImage
Offline Packnic  
#13 Posted : Thursday, August 28, 2008 3:03:02 PM(UTC)
Packnic

Rank: 5th Round Draft Pick

Joined: 6/19/2007(UTC)

Applause Given: 6
Applause Received: 6

You cant look at these moves as seperate entities. T T didn't just trade Corey Williams for fun, or because he wanted an extra draft pick. Corey was a free agent and was gonna leave because he wasn't gonna A. get paid starter money and B. become a starter. Ted didn't make this move to piss off fans, he made it because he thought it would be better to get something out of a situation where he would likely get nothing.


But the backup QB situation is something that might bite Ted and Mike in the end. Not because these kids arent good, as we don't know that yet. but because they might not be as ready as Mike and Ted would have thought. Remember this is not even close to an issue if Aaron stays healthy. So we don't need to freak out just yet i dont think. I mean Indy has Sorgi as a backup and their QB is legitamately hurt and no one is bashing their management. good QB's dont grow on trees, and many teams are in the same situation we are. These guys still have time to grow and learn throughout the season as long as Arod stays healthy.
blank
Offline zerowley  
#14 Posted : Thursday, August 28, 2008 3:17:29 PM(UTC)
zerowley

Rank: Fresh Cheesehead

Joined: 8/28/2008(UTC)


I think you guys are taking way too much out of preseason regarding the run defense and pass rush. Obviously record means nothing, but I think too much is made about the performance of the starters as well.

Until I see these problems appear in games that actually matter (and with everyone healthy, something that we haven't had all preseason) I'm not going to get bent out of shape.

Of course it would be nice to have Williams back now, but at the time everybody was praising Thompson for getting good value for a player that didn't even want to stay here. Add in our depth at DT (at the time, obviously) and it would have been a mistake to pass on that trade.

Regarding Brohm, of course he's going to look lost out there. Even Peyton Manning (one of the most NFL ready quarterbacks to ever come out) had a terrible first season. The adjustment period for quarterbacks and linemen is much longer than it is for a lot of the skill positions.

The season is lost if Rodgers is out and getting the young QB's some experience is much more important than posting a better record, IMO. This is a team with Super Bowl hopes, not a team trying to post a record above .500, and that's all bringing a veteran in will accomplish.
blank
Offline Roddyboy  
#15 Posted : Thursday, August 28, 2008 4:08:03 PM(UTC)
Roddyboy

Rank: Fresh Cheesehead

Joined: 8/18/2008(UTC)


If Tedrow's Packers tank, and Favre takes the Jets deep into the playoffs, Ted should be fired, imo.

This is his M.O.

Sign young guys and don't have a backup plan if they fail. That's why the O-Line is the way it is. That's why we've had a poor RB situation until Grant came along, etc.

One of these days, it's all going to blow up in his face. And this could be the year. :whipitgood:
blank
Rss Feed 
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Notification

Icon
Error


Recent Topics
1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / uffda udfa

1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / uffda udfa

4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / nerdmann

7h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

8h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Smokey

15h / Green Bay Packers Talk / DarkaneRules

19-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

19-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Wizard3461

19-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / nyrpack

18-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / PackFanWithTwins

18-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / musccy

18-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Dulak

18-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / luigis


Tweeter