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Offline Zero2Cool  
#101 Posted : Thursday, December 25, 2014 1:15:39 PM(UTC)
Rank: Premier Member

Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Gold: 2015Yahoo! Fantasy Football - Gold: 2009FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Silver: 2011ESPN NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2013

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Location: Green Bay, WI
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wpr said:
I like to street park on Borvan or Morris Av. below Holmgren Way. Either that or parking lots in that area.

Come in and leave the area via WI 32 to US 41.

Stop light at Morris and Cormier. I use acess rd between the two to get ahead of traffic on WI32.

get into left lane as fast as you can. Most traffic heading to WI 172 and backups the R lane.

watch for security back ups. many times the lines to the far right of a gate are shorter so slid over. some cops eaasier on searches and thus quicker

Afghan Vet son says keep feet warm/dry. bring 2nd pair of socks.



have you lookeda the packer site for rules to what you can bring in?
http://www.packers.com/g...eday-information.html#s9
http://www.packers.com/gameday/index.html
Offline Zero2Cool  
#102 Posted : Thursday, December 25, 2014 3:45:24 PM(UTC)
Rank: Premier Member

Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Gold: 2015Yahoo! Fantasy Football - Gold: 2009FleaFlicker Fantasy Football - Silver: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Silver: 2011ESPN NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2010Yahoo! NCAA March Madness - Bronze: 2013

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uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
Actually, I said Green Bay has overvalued one of it's own, again, as they often do... and that led to fans doing the exact same thing.

From my response, it was obvious I took this quote below as you saying us fans.
uffda udfa said:
Where is Corey Linsley's probowl berth? Heard about it for weeks how he was a probowl C. Another case of us overvaluing our own?

Your timing of "clearing this up" is very self-convenient.

uffda udfa said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm not sure how you aren't following the logical flow of what I've said. It is pretty easy to grasp that if they thought EDS was a 14.6 player in 2013 and he was nothing more than just a guy, then seeing Linsley at 11.0 is nothing to get fired up about.

I took the time to explain another side to it and even laid them out for you and you're going to insult me with this kind of a response? What a waste of time.

Offline uffda udfa  
#103 Posted : Thursday, December 25, 2014 4:34:20 PM(UTC)
Rank: Senior Member

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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
From my response, it was obvious I took this quote below as you saying us fans.

Your timing of "clearing this up" is very self-convenient.


I took the time to explain another side to it and even laid them out for you and you're going to insult me with this kind of a response? What a waste of time.



I'm sorry if you felt insulted... didn't intend to make you feel that way. What happens is posters here answer back things that have nothing to do with what I'm even posting about. My point is air tight on PFF. Anything tangential to it really doesn't matter one bit.

Plus, I still don't know who these guys are at PFF. Are they just fans who like football like you and me or are they something more? Does a fan watching every play make them understand what makes a great center over and above you and I? What is their method of grading? There are a lot of moving parts in every single football play. If the person watching the tape doesn't fully understand what's supposed to be happening their grades are nothing more than cute things to talk about. I tend to think they're just a bunch of guys who love football and have some arbitrary grading system based on a lot of things they don't fully understand. I conclude that based on their high grade on EDS from last season. I guess to them he was really something. To us Packers fans, we didn't see it that way, nor did the organization.

EDIT: The charge of convenience is an odd charge. I didn't mean this board and am not sure why you thought I did? The PACKERS are famous for overvaluing their own. It's a Ted Thompson thing.

Here's a Rodgers quote from back in early to mid November on Linsley:

"Corey has played as solid as anybody," Rodgers said Tuesday on his weekly ESPN Milwaukee radio show. "I think at some point there needs to be a little bit of campaigning about him for Pro Bowl. He's played that good. He doesn't have the name recognition yet. A lot of times, you get voted in the year after you deserve to and maybe a year longer than you deserve to, as they say."

I heard all this buzz from the Packers on Linsley and the Pro Bowl. I wondered where he was...obviously, the Packers felt Linsley was a pro bowl type player. He didn't make it. I concluded that, perhaps, we overvalued one of our own...again. All of a sudden I get told how dumb I am because the great and powerful PFF has graded him highly, just like they did with EDS, and I'm supposed to bow to that? I built a logical case to dismiss PFF as authoritative on Center play and I got a post in return that was about everything but that with accusations that I conveniently manipulated what I meant which couldn't be more off base.
Offline earthquake  
#104 Posted : Thursday, December 25, 2014 4:51:30 PM(UTC)
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Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
I took the time to explain another side to it and even laid them out for you and you're going to insult me with this kind of a response? What a waste of time.



Honestly, I'm surprised you would expect anything else from this guy. He has a clear narrative to push (TT sucks at everything including drafting players), and in some twisted way Corey Linsley, a 4th round pick starting at center (and doing a pretty good job of it) not making the pro bowl is some sort of feather in his cap of confirmation bias.

What seems more likely, that professionals who run a respected website dedicated to grading football players has no idea what they are talking about, or that some random fan on an internet forum doesn't know what they are talking about? Uff, unless you can provide a more respected and reliable source for offensive lineman grades your blatant attempt to discredit anything that doesn't fit your narrow world view is nothing more than exactly that.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
IronMan on 12/29/2014(UTC)
Offline uffda udfa  
#105 Posted : Thursday, December 25, 2014 4:58:43 PM(UTC)
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earthquake said: Go to Quoted Post
Honestly, I'm surprised you would expect anything else from this guy. He has a clear narrative to push (TT sucks at everything including drafting players), and in some twisted way Corey Linsley, a 4th round pick starting at center (and doing a pretty good job of it) not making the pro bowl is some sort of feather in his cap of confirmation bias.

What seems more likely, that professionals who run a respected website dedicated to grading football players has no idea what they are talking about, or that some random fan on an internet forum doesn't know what they are talking about? Uff, unless you can provide a more respected and reliable source for offensive lineman grades your blatant attempt to discredit anything that doesn't fit your narrow world view is nothing more than exactly that.


First, Linsley was a 5th round pick. You are making the tie in to something to try and build your own narrative that I'm trying to build one of my own. I'm not. I just wondered about us overhyping one of our own as we usually do.

PFF is run by professionals? Are you sure? I worked in sports broadcasting for many years. So, you think PFF is a reliable source on OL play? Why? Is it because you don't know and don't have anywhere else to to turn so you've abdicated trying to determine for yourself and just let PFF do it for you because you know they know more than you which then you conclude makes them authoritative? I hope you see how ridiculous that is.

EDIT: Here's a link to the history of PFF...

https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/history/

I found their answer very underwhelming to this FAQ...

3) How do you know exactly what a player’s job is on any given play and whether negatives were his fault?

This question obviously changes depending on the position and the specific play. Much of our methodology can be found in our explanation of our grading, but we will go into a quick summary:

• Pass Protection

This is a measure of how much total pressure a player gives away during a game. It isn’t a simple formula like -1.5 for a sack, -1 for a hit, as time taken to get the pressure is also very important. This is then normalized by adding a small positive factor for every drop-back he played. It is usually simple enough to determine what a player’s assignment is in pass protection, as we have the benefit of being able to watch one player closely and specifically multiple times. It is possible that a blocker is directed by the quarterback to take a specific man, resulting in a pass rusher that appears to be his responsibility getting a pressure and us grading that blocker down. This is an inherent inaccuracy in the grading, but despite this potential inaccuracy we have had NFL sources, including Bengals OG Evan Mathis, confirm that our grades are accurate, and reflect closely what they receive as internal feedback. There may be an inherent margin of error in what we do, but it is still more accurate than anything outside of a team meeting room.

• Run Blocking

Again, it is rare not to be able to determine where a run was supposed to go, and what a blocker’s assignment was on a particular play. Players don’t make the kind of mental lapses often that would see them going to a totally different place than where they should have been. If they did they wouldn’t be in the league long. If a player attempts a block on somebody, whether they win the encounter or lose it, it was almost certainly their assignment on the play. This is obviously not easy to pick up live and in real time, but again we have the benefit of being able to go back retrospectively and watch multiple replays of a play developing to get the information.

• Coverage

Assignments in coverage can be a more difficult matter, specifically in the middle of the field when applied to LBs and safeties. Because when a TE, HB or WR finds a seam, the determination of whose responsibility that is becomes trickier. Some other analysts have decided to apportion the yardage out amongst the players involved, but frankly we don’t believe this is worth the effort. In addition, if it’s a touchdown, do you award half a TD? Because of the inherent issues with the statistics mentioned above we just go for the simple approach and take the closest player when the ball is thrown, understanding inaccuracy is built in.
Offline Bigbyfan  
#106 Posted : Thursday, January 1, 2015 12:51:56 PM(UTC)
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Joined: 8/8/2008(UTC)
Applause Given: 64
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I'm going to my first ever game to Lambeau next week. I thought it would be a good idea to check this post for advice/info (which I did, thanks). However, I see that this thread got turned into an argument about a rookie center. Gotta love the trolls lol.
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