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steveishere  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, September 18, 2013 7:05:22 PM(UTC)

texaspackerbacker said: Go to Quoted Post
Well, you could start, I suppose, with the participants in that damn lawsuit as a fraction of total NFL players in that time period.

You are, of course, correct about that opinion, which I guess, makes my jack sh!t opinion about as valuable as those self-proclaimed experts.

Kill the game? You mean like it did the first hundred years or so up to now? Dying? Has anybody EVER died in an NFL game? I seem to recall a Detroit Lion back 50 or so years ago, but he had a heart attack because of a genetic disorder about cholesterol susceptibility or something - not really part of this discussion. If you can cite ANYBODY whose premature death was directly linked to head shots or whatever, I'd like to hear it. I'm pretty sure there aren't very many in all those years.

The thing that could kill the game (although almost certainly won't because people with common sense will prevail) is this idiotic emphasis and lawsuits, etc. on this ridiculous topic.


Yeah your opinion on brains is no doubt as valid as any "self proclaimed" (not sure what makes an actual expert self-proclaimed but whatever you say) expert who has spent their life studying them...

I'm sure that information on TBIs were just as advanced 50-60 years ago as they are today. Like I said TBIs regarding football participation has until now been pretty much completely undocumented so there is probably not much information linking deaths directly to football but many football players have died prematurely and you are delusional if you think none of that ever related to them playing.

In reality though none of that even matters because the fact is getting a bunch of concussions damages your brain. If the NFL ignored all of these health/brain studies and lawsuits and just let players do whatever they wanted and keep playing with head injuries and never changed anything the NFL would be shut down until they changed things.

Whether you want them to let people go out there and fuck up their bodies doesn't matter because people whose opinions do matter to whether the league can exist or not don't want that happening. The NFL isn't just changing their rules because it makes them happy they are changing rules because they HAVE TO.

You can say you honestly think it the league did NOTHING to combat brain injuries everything would go on just like it has "the last hundred years"?
PackFanWithTwins  
#22 Posted : Wednesday, September 18, 2013 7:11:15 PM(UTC)

texaspackerbacker said: Go to Quoted Post
The victim is a Packer in this case, so I'm all for as heavy a punishment as possible, but sometime, the shoe will be on the other foot - or even just somebody hitting whoever the hell it is.

Call me evil; Call me old-fashioned; Whatever, but I just can't get into this whole mentality of no helmet to helmet/put a skirt on the QBs/ don't hit a "defenseless" receiver/ all that silly crap.

These guys get paid multiple millions to play a fun game that almost any of us would give almost anything to be good enough to play. Part of what they get paid so much for IMNHO, is the risk - and really it is a damn small risk even with helmet to helmet contact - of getting their brains scrambled. If they aren't up to that risk, let them quit the game and give up that HUGE money they get paid.


I am somewhat on the same page. There are hits to the head that happen, and there are hits to the head that are completely avoidable and should have everything possible to remove them from the game. And those are spearing. It has never been the proper way to tackle, and is not the way anybody should show our kids that play.

But as long as players are suing because they choose to play the game and have negative results from it, the league must act or lose.
wpr  
#23 Posted : Wednesday, September 18, 2013 8:15:58 PM(UTC)

texaspackerbacker said: Go to Quoted Post


Kill the game? You mean like it did the first hundred years or so up to now? Dying? Has anybody EVER died in an NFL game? I seem to recall a Detroit Lion back 50 or so years ago, but he had a heart attack because of a genetic disorder about cholesterol susceptibility or something - not really part of this discussion. If you can cite ANYBODY whose premature death was directly linked to head shots or whatever, I'd like to hear it. I'm pretty sure there aren't very many in all those years.


Jack Tatum's hit on Darryl Stingley paralyzed him. While it was not a concussion it was helmet to helmet hit. Darryl died at age 61.


Lionel Aldridge had mental issues. There is no way to say they weren't brought on by pounding his head against his opponent. He died at age 56.


There are hundreds of former players who we don't know if repeated hits to the head contributed to their health problems.
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User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#24 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:38:54 AM(UTC)

Good effort on the examples, but death came DECADES later, and you say yourself, there's no way to know if it was directly linked. There are a LOT of people who were never associated with football what have major bi-polar problems (or whatever it was with Aldridge) and die fairly young partly because their lifestyle.

You make my point more than countering it - two very questionable examples out of how many thousand who played in the NFL, many of which had serious hits to the head.

It's a long time since I saw the Stingly hit, BTW, and I will tell you with certainty, that kind of hit was common back then, and praised by virtually everybody - until the piece-of-crap whatevers (I am so tempted to use a political word - ooooh so terrible - here) and started getting all pious and disruptive of the status quo - the status quo almost always being a good thing (oooh is that political?)

The most significant - and IMNHO worst - effect on brains here is the WASHING of brains of the past couple of generations to be so hyper-concerned about this whole hits to the head thing.

And still nothing from the -anti crowd about risk v. reward - players NOT quitting because the danger is terrible to cause them to give up the HUGE money.
steveishere  
#25 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:32:58 AM(UTC)

Im sure the nfl settled for 750 million even though there was no case to be made lol. Not only are you a brain damage expert you are also a better lawyer than what the nfl can afford. And all of this without even an ounce of research.
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steveishere  
#26 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:41:49 AM(UTC)

And ill just say that my personal opinion is that theygo too far with rule changes and penalties and such but it doesnt matter because they dont have a choice. If the nfl took the path you advocated and 100 percent ignored all safety issues they would be shut down.

Hits like the one pollard got fined for to me are fine because he wass playing football. The one by meriweather though isbs, he was just trying to hurt somebody. Im fine with keeping that shit out of the game
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User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#27 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:48:36 AM(UTC)

steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
Im sure the nfl settled for 750 million even though there was no case to be made lol. Not only are you a brain damage expert you are also a better lawyer than what the nfl can afford. And all of this without even an ounce of research.


I never made any particular claim to be an expert hahahaha, but if anything is a threat to the game, it is God damned lawyers. Vince and George Halas took care of one manifestation of that problem back in the day - getting Congress to go over the heads of those damned lawyers. I doubt that will happen here because too many regular people have been brain-washed to think this silliness is a real problem. Just the same, common sense will prevail and this will all blow over.

As for that $750 million settlement, did you read the fine print hahahahaha?

It is stretched out over a LONG period of time; It greatly inhibits future lawsuits; And the amount is not much more than a drop in the bucket of NFL income over the long haul. In short, you could say common sense already prevailed. The owners got off pretty easy - and well they should because this is just a bunch of do-gooder media trumped up bullshit anyway.

BTW, Steve, you still haven't said anything about why a lot of players don't just quit if this risk is really so real and serious. Or maybe their brains are already too scrambled to give up that HUGE money hahahaha.
User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#28 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:55:23 AM(UTC)

steveishere said: Go to Quoted Post
And ill just say that my personal opinion is that theygo too far with rule changes and penalties and such but it doesnt matter because they dont have a choice. If the nfl took the path you advocated and 100 percent ignored all safety issues they would be shut down.

Hits like the one pollard got fined for to me are fine because he wass playing football. The one by meriweather though isbs, he was just trying to hurt somebody. Im fine with keeping that sh!t out of the game


Did I say anything about ignoring anything?

I said they should have strong evidence of intent before suspending - fines are no big deal to those rich guys anyway.

Just because I said this is all bullshit doesn't mean the NFL should ignore it. There is a threat - NOT for real medical reasons, but for PR, PC, and God damned legal reasons. They can either appear to play along - which seems to be their strategy or they can have a counter-campaign to explain the statistics and why and how this is all bullshit - basically to unbrainwash the masses - which I guess they choose not to do. But ignore? You never ignore when the forces of ridiculousness are on the attack with media support.

steveishere  
#29 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 10:13:47 AM(UTC)

I would take the risk to play for millions but that doesnt mean I wouldnt also advocate them shutting down turds like meriweather out there trying to just knock me out
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wpr  
#30 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 11:13:37 AM(UTC)

TX I am sorry someone didn't die right there on the playing field just to satisfy your morbid desires. haha. Dying at an early age is still dying. A man seriously wounded in battle who lingers for years with the affliction still dies from that injury even if a medic didn't toe tag him on the spot.

Like you I don't not know any of the fact for Aldridge's case. I am saying it is possible playing football (High school, college and NFL along with a bunch of sand lot games) contributed to his illness and his death. The same can be said for many of the other cases. You can not totally and completely state that head trauma did not effect them as much as you would like to believe it is so. Therefore you have to rail on the media brain washing people as your only defense.
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Zero2Cool  
#31 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 11:36:13 AM(UTC)

wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
TX I am sorry someone didn't die right there on the playing field ....

Teen football player dies after hit

wpr  
#32 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 11:41:00 AM(UTC)



I was thinking there was a youngster who died but I didn't have time to look it up and since it is TX we are talking about it would have been good enough for him since he didn't play in the NFL and it is only 1 out of all that played and about 100 other excuses.
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gbguy20  
#33 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 1:34:01 PM(UTC)

fuck this thread
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User is suspended until 4/29/2043 11:56:55 PM(UTC) texaspackerbacker  
#34 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 3:08:54 PM(UTC)

wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
TX I am sorry someone didn't die right there on the playing field just to satisfy your morbid desires. haha. Dying at an early age is still dying. A man seriously wounded in battle who lingers for years with the affliction still dies from that injury even if a medic didn't toe tag him on the spot.

Like you I don't not know any of the fact for Aldridge's case. I am saying it is possible playing football (High school, college and NFL along with a bunch of sand lot games) contributed to his illness and his death. The same can be said for many of the other cases. You can not totally and completely state that head trauma did not effect them as much as you would like to believe it is so. Therefore you have to rail on the media brain washing people as your only defense.


Good Grief!!! Defense against what? If idiots want to say what has been happening - and considered fairly NORMAL for a hundred years or so needs to be CHANGED - that word so precious to your kind, I'd say the burden of proof is on you.

And MORBID? I'd say digging until you are blue in the face to find some weird example of death that undoubtedly had a primary cause that was completely unrelated - and even if wasn't, was rarer than getting struck by lightning on a clear day - that qualifies a whole lot more than just enjoying watching Jack Tatum - type hits and wishing the whiners wouldn't get all hyper over them.

And Steve, thank you for finally replying to the key point here. What you said - hell yeah, you'd take the risk for all that money - is consistent with a mentality I would call "NORMAL" - consistent with virtually every NFL - quality football player, along with a hundred million or so of us poor unfortunate regular people who only wish we were athletically gifted enough to have that decision to make. A few of these little old ladies in this forum might be exceptions to that, but a big whatever about them.

As for "shutting down Merriwether", I don't know enough about the guy to either like or hate him. I doubt any in here do. Maybe he is an arch-villain who lives solely for intentionally dealing out career-ending head injuries - yeah right. All I am doing is taking the radical point of view that there should be hard evidence that the act was intended to do harm before "shutting him down" for a game/a season/for life. I mean what if it was Morgan Burnett we were talking about? Bad example? Not a head-hunter? How about Chuck Cecil?

Back to all that morbid digging some of the little old ladies are frantically doing, how many Tatum or Cecil type hits occurred without any ill effects? And how many poor concussed victims went back in the game a few minutes after with nary an ill effect? For every poor unfortunate Jim McMahon or Lionel Aldridge you can cite (and completely ignore the prospect of alternative causes for their conditions), how many Troy Aikmans or Steve Youngs are there who got repeatedly brain-banged, and went on to normal productive lives?

To the lame person/people who doesn't like this thread hahahaha, I will say one thing sort of in agreement: this is a very lame topic. Football - getting out there and banging heads even with no helmets - as kids did in the past, and in many cases still do - when not "supervised" by the wisdom of little old ladies - is a lot more fun than legalistic media-enhanced bullshit .......... but this is a little bit fun between gamedays too hahahaha.
buckeyepackfan  
#35 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:11:57 PM(UTC)

gbguy20 said: Go to Quoted Post
feck this thread


Agree gbguy

Another thread turned into insult throwing, political arguing bullshit.

hahaha........that seems to make anything written ok.



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wpr  
#36 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:40:35 PM(UTC)

It does no good to try and justify your position by comparing one person's concussion and rehab to someone else's. Not all injuries are equal no matter what kind they are. Not all concussions going to be the same. I had got a concession trying to take out a mountain of a man who was the catcher guarding home plate. After I came to I asked if I was safe or not. I wasn't even close. Face down in the dirt when they came out and picked me up and took me back to the bench. I was pretty foggy for the next hour or so but had no signs of problems the next day. My brother ended up in the hospital when he got one playing HS football. he was inactive for a solid week and had to be cleared by the doctor before he could go back to practice.
DoddPower  
#37 Posted : Friday, September 20, 2013 12:43:58 PM(UTC)

buckeyepackfan said: Go to Quoted Post
Agree gbguy

Another thread turned into insult throwing, political arguing bullsh!t.

hahaha........that seems to make anything written ok.





Pretty typical thing to happen to threads once Texas gets involved.

DakotaT  
#38 Posted : Friday, September 20, 2013 5:41:47 PM(UTC)

DoddPower said: Go to Quoted Post
Pretty typical thing to happen to threads once Texas gets involved.



Not "Mr. Reasonable"! Surely you must be wrong, Dodd. [grin1]


I'm as guilty as Numbnuts, so you can throw some of that my way too Dodd.
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DoddPower  
#39 Posted : Friday, September 20, 2013 9:43:08 PM(UTC)

DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
Not "Mr. Reasonable"! Surely you must be wrong, Dodd. [grin1]


I'm as guilty as Numbnuts, so you can throw some of that my way too Dodd.


OK, here . . . catch. I'm throwing some shit your way. Baaaaaastard.
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