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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#1 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 1:34:07 AM(UTC)
Nonstopdrivel

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Quote:
According to former National Security Agency (NSA) analyst Russell Tice, millions of Americans are being spied on. Tice, who worked for the NSA as an analyst for nearly 20 years, said in an interview conducted by MSNBC that NSA had access to all Americans communications, faxes, phone calls, and their computer communications, regardless of their location or whether or not they made foreign communications.

During that time, the Bush administration repeatedly assured Americans that only calls to and from foreign nations might be subject to monitoring in the effort to prevent terrorist attacks like 9/11.

Even though all communications from all Americans were potentially intercepted, in interviews Tice says that even though the Agency has the best computers, its impossible to monitor every single American directly. Instead, he said they look at the metadata, the signaling data for communications and ferret that information to determine what communications would ultimately be collected.


Here is the first interview:
[youtube]NDVJiAFVdZ8[/youtube]

Here is the second interview (watch it after the first).
[youtube]ABp60KLxpqc[/youtube]
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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#2 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 1:38:54 AM(UTC)
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Here is an ABC interview with Mr. Tice from last September, in which he says that from the beginning of an agent's career, it's drilled into your head as one of the "Ten Commandments" that you don't spy on Americans:

[youtube]Zzckc8cCmSM[/youtube]
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Offline TheEngineer  
#3 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 1:39:37 AM(UTC)
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Not surprised in the least about all of this. Though I wonder to what extent foreign communications are recorded, such as say, forum messages from non Americans.
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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#4 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 1:45:48 AM(UTC)
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I don't know, but since the NSA explicitly records all email transmissions between the United States and the Middle East, I no longer correspond with my Iraqi friends -- for their sake and mine -- even though that means I don't know how well they're doing. It frustrates me that I have to be more afraid of my own country than of this country's true enemies.
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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#5 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 1:54:42 AM(UTC)
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One last video, this time an ABC interview with the original whistleblower, an AT&T contract technician who discovered the secret room the NSA was building in their offices:

[youtube]hZ0A45rM9sE[/youtube]

It still sickens me that our Congress gave the telecommunications companies amnesty for this.
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Offline TheEngineer  
#6 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:07:50 AM(UTC)
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I think this is the way of the future, with the prevalence of peer to peer direct communications from mobiles, mail, the internet, and no doubt, we'll develop portable devices such that internet connectivity and telephony will be built into previously single-use devices (e.g. fridges).

There's just too much risk in not monitoring these avenues for communication. I think unfortunately people will just have to accept that their communications will be monitored, or at least filtered for national security risks.
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Offline Cheesey  
#7 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:24:47 AM(UTC)
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Think about it........now there are video cameras all over our highways. They can monitor anything.......phones, computer, anything.
Look at "Google Earth"........look how far you can zoom in. You can see cars very clearly. Now.......if we as a people can see that from a satelite, you KNOW that the government can zoom it in to where they can see you, your license plate, and so on. "Big brother" really IS watching us.

Here is a story that was told to me by a friend. A friend of his had taken out a VERY large amount of money from his bank. He put it in his trunk in a bag. He's driving down the highway, when he is pulled over by cops, with guns drawn. They take him out of his car, and he asks WHY he's been pulled over. They ask him "Why do you have 25 thousand dollars in your car?" He looks puzzled, and ask them "How in the heck do you know how much money i have in my car?" They tell him "The strip embeded in the bills tell them how much is there." He of course was cleared when they contacted his bank.
There is SO much they know about us that we don't realize. What food do you buy? If you use a store card for discounts, or a credit card, they know just what you buy with the UPC codes.
This has been going on for years. People are just realizing it now. This is not anything new.
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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#8 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:29:59 AM(UTC)
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I would far rather be free than safe. In a time of true national crisis (this War on Terrorism hardly qualifies), I'd place infinitely more trust in a well-armed populace as guaranteed by the Second Amendment than my supposedly benevolent government. One of the reasons Hitler never invaded Switzerland was that, then as now, the government relies primarily on the militia model for national defense, issuing all able-bodied men a fully automatic assault weapon and 72 rounds of ammunition (which must be kept sealed) and mandating that they demonstrate proficiency with their weapon at least yearly. If Hitler, with his powerful standing army, didn't think it was worth the risk to invade this tiny country that bordered Germany, why should an immense, well-armed nation like ours, with the highest rate of gun ownership in the world, fear a bunch of tribal insurgents who have no capability -- and little if any desire -- to invade the United States in any meaningful sense of the word?
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Offline Rockmolder  
#9 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 11:00:41 AM(UTC)
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On one side, you knew this would happen eventually, maybe just not that early. On the other side, for a country build on freedom ('Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.' - Benjamin Franklin), this has quite some impact.

It makes you wonder where they'll stop. I mean, will there be an uproar about this or will we eventually life in countrys that go more to police states?
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Offline 4PackGirl  
#10 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 11:50:56 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Think about it........now there are video cameras all over our highways. They can monitor anything.......phones, computer, anything.
Look at "Google Earth"........look how far you can zoom in. You can see cars very clearly. Now.......if we as a people can see that from a satelite, you KNOW that the government can zoom it in to where they can see you, your license plate, and so on. "Big brother" really IS watching us.

Here is a story that was told to me by a friend. A friend of his had taken out a VERY large amount of money from his bank. He put it in his trunk in a bag. He's driving down the highway, when he is pulled over by cops, with guns drawn. They take him out of his car, and he asks WHY he's been pulled over. They ask him "Why do you have 25 thousand dollars in your car?" He looks puzzled, and ask them "How in the heck do you know how much money i have in my car?" They tell him "The strip embeded in the bills tell them how much is there." He of course was cleared when they contacted his bank.
There is SO much they know about us that we don't realize. What food do you buy? If you use a store card for discounts, or a credit card, they know just what you buy with the UPC codes.
This has been going on for years. People are just realizing it now. This is not anything new.


sorry to say this but the cop wasn't entirely truthful with your friend. more likely, the bank contacted the authorities because they were concerned for your friends safety. depending on his age, a bank is required by law to contact police when an elderly person is acting strange &/or withdrawing a large sum of money. banks are also required to file SAR's suspicious activity reports - pretty self explanatory. there are many reasons for banks to report certain activities to authorities - mostly because of fraud &/or safety issues.
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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#11 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 2:54:49 PM(UTC)
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The strip may not tell the police how much money is in your car, but they are apparently able to be encoded, like a package with UPS, at every stop (bank), giving authorities a picture of how the bills have been used over time.
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Offline yooperfan  
#12 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 4:25:55 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I would far rather be free than safe. In a time of true national crisis (this War on Terrorism hardly qualifies), I'd place infinitely more trust in a well-armed populace as guaranteed by the Second Amendment than my supposedly benevolent government. One of the reasons Hitler never invaded Switzerland was that, then as now, the government relies primarily on the militia model for national defense, issuing all able-bodied men a fully automatic assault weapon and 72 rounds of ammunition (which must be kept sealed) and mandating that they demonstrate proficiency with their weapon at least yearly. If Hitler, with his powerful standing army, didn't think it was worth the risk to invade this tiny country that bordered Germany, why should an immense, well-armed nation like ours, with the highest rate of gun ownership in the world, fear a bunch of tribal insurgents who have no capability -- and little if any desire -- to invade the United States in any meaningful sense of the word?


I like your thinking nonstop(drivel) as I think most gun owners would.
Offline yooperfan  
#13 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 4:28:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Think about it........now there are video cameras all over our highways. They can monitor anything.......phones, computer, anything.
Look at "Google Earth"........look how far you can zoom in. You can see cars very clearly. Now.......if we as a people can see that from a satelite, you KNOW that the government can zoom it in to where they can see you, your license plate, and so on. "Big brother" really IS watching us.

Here is a story that was told to me by a friend. A friend of his had taken out a VERY large amount of money from his bank. He put it in his trunk in a bag. He's driving down the highway, when he is pulled over by cops, with guns drawn. They take him out of his car, and he asks WHY he's been pulled over. They ask him "Why do you have 25 thousand dollars in your car?" He looks puzzled, and ask them "How in the heck do you know how much money i have in my car?" They tell him "The strip embeded in the bills tell them how much is there." He of course was cleared when they contacted his bank.
There is SO much they know about us that we don't realize. What food do you buy? If you use a store card for discounts, or a credit card, they know just what you buy with the UPC codes.
This has been going on for years. People are just realizing it now. This is not anything new.


1984 dude.
I've thought that for along time, even before the internet came along.
Offline Cheesey  
#14 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 5:47:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I would far rather be free than safe. In a time of true national crisis (this War on Terrorism hardly qualifies), I'd place infinitely more trust in a well-armed populace as guaranteed by the Second Amendment than my supposedly benevolent government. One of the reasons Hitler never invaded Switzerland was that, then as now, the government relies primarily on the militia model for national defense, issuing all able-bodied men a fully automatic assault weapon and 72 rounds of ammunition (which must be kept sealed) and mandating that they demonstrate proficiency with their weapon at least yearly. If Hitler, with his powerful standing army, didn't think it was worth the risk to invade this tiny country that bordered Germany, why should an immense, well-armed nation like ours, with the highest rate of gun ownership in the world, fear a bunch of tribal insurgents who have no capability -- and little if any desire -- to invade the United States in any meaningful sense of the word?


I like your thinking nonstop(drivel) as I think most gun owners would.

I agree with BOTH of you!
Problem is....we as Americans have become too LAZY, expecting the government to "protect" us. In doing so, we give up more and more freedom every year.
I don't see it EVER getting any better. There are too many that LIKE the "nanny state" we are going into.
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Offline Cheesey  
#15 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2009 5:50:03 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
The strip may not tell the police how much money is in your car, but they are apparently able to be encoded, like a package with UPS, at every stop (bank), giving authorities a picture of how the bills have been used over time.

Which if you think about it, proves that they CAN tell how much money you have. If it's encoded to show how a bill is used, it wouldn't make much sense if it didn't also show the denomination, would it? One's are used differently then 20's or 50's or 100's. If they want to know how it circulates, and how fast it deteriorates so they can replace them, it only works if the know the bill's face value.
Otherwise that info would be useless.
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