Discussion Board
Welcome Guest! You can login or register. Login or Register.

Go to last post Go to first unread
#1 Posted : Saturday, September 6, 2008 11:26:02 AM(UTC)
Favre is going to prove everyone wrong, as always, and Trader Ted is going to end up with egg foo yung on his face.

I remember some foos here who said Favre had lost it years ago, and that he sucks, and should retire or be traded.

It's funny when those people are wrong!

With Jets, Favre tries to turn back Father Time
Will N.Y. QB be among the NFL greats who have hung around for too long?
By Ethan J. Skolnick

NBCSports.com contributor
updated 8:31 p.m. ET, Wed., Sept. 3, 2008

The first Sunday of the NFL schedule offers the usual share of compelling storylines.

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers open in New Orleans, against a Saints squad predicted by many to reclaim the NFC South title. The New England Patriots try to start another streak of perfection, at home against the rebuilding Kansas City Chiefs. The Indianapolis Colts open their new stadium in a Super Bowl XLI rematch against the Chicago Bears.

Yet the featured matchup of the day will occur in South Florida, between two revamped division rivals that finished 5-27 last season, the Miami Dolphins and the New York Jets. That's because a 38-year-old quarterback, whose offseason retirement and unretirement saga put most soap operas to shame, promises to be the signature storyline of 2008.

"The pressure is going to fall on Brett Favre with the Jets," said Ron Jaworski, the lead analyst on ESPN's Monday Night Football. "They have really raised the bar as far as expectations."

The Green Bay Packers, coming off an NFC Championship, chose to promote a fourth-year man, Aaron Rodgers, who has never started a regular-season game. The Jets, seeking their first Super Bowl appearance in nearly four decades, acquired the proven veteran to lead them to the playoffs.

When a team in the nation's largest media market trades for a living legend, hype happens. How 'bout hope? How hopeful should Jets, and Favre, fans really be?

After all, for Favre to become the NFL's all-time leading passer, something else had to pass:

Lots of time.

With time, athletes inevitably wear down.

So does Favre, who turns 39 on Oct. 10, have another playoff run left in him? Can he continue his remarkable streak of longevity, one that stretches 15 seasons without missing a start? Can he continue defying age the way swimmer Dara Torres did at the Olympics, Nolan Ryan did as a fire-balling pitcher, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar did as a sky-hooking center and John Elway, Rich Gannon and Warren Moon did as NFL quarterbacks?

Or will he limp around like Johnny Unitas, Joe Namath, Sammy Baugh and other luminaries who played one or two or three years too long?

"I think that Favre will have a really good year," said former NFL quarterback Steve DeBerg. "He has got that extra fire in him now. With all his knowledge and talent, and now he has the passion to make something special happen. I just think he will."

Favre isn't making any promises.

"I understand most people think the odds are against me," Favre said Wednesday, shortly after his teammates voted him as one of the team's two offensive captains. "If it doesn't work out, so be it."

Favre said he would have liked to have played more in the preseason, but said he felt "OK" and that "I can be in great shape and still get tired."

As long as the right arm still works.

"Brett can still sling the ball with the best of them," Jaworski said.

Jaworski has learned the folly of doubt. A year ago, the former NFL quarterback wasn't sure that Favre still possessed the necessary physical attributes. It was natural to wonder. It was widely believed that Favre had not played well, by any reasonable standard, in 2005 or 2006, but that could be attributed to many factors, such as the team around him.

Favre heard Jaworski's concern. On the field before the Packers played the Broncos, the two men stood together on the field at Invesco Field in Denver. Favre planted his toes on the 50-yard line, rotated his hips, and struck the goal-line pylon with a laser that never rose above 10 feet off the ground.

"How's my arm strength?" Favre asked.
"Obviously, very good," Jaworski replied.

As if Jaworski needed more evidence, Favre closed the contest by opening overtime with an 82-yard touchdown pass to Greg Jennings.

"He kind of put me in my place," Jaworski said.

Jaworski, who went 33-15 as the Philadelphia Eagles' starter from 1979-81, remembers when he knew the end was near. In 1988, he returned to training camp as a 37-year-old backup for the Dolphins, and the zip was gone. He had become more of an anticipation thrower, because he couldn't make the same old throws.

"I felt that I had worked out and all those things," Jaworski said. "I guess Father Time just caught up."

Now it's in hot pursuit of Favre. Jaworski expects Favre to elude it a little longer.

"Clearly, he still has the physical ability," Jaworski said. "He still has that great feel for the pocket. He was not a guy who was going to run. He was somewhat Dan Marino-like in knowing where the pressing is coming from, and taking that subtle slide step. You still see that with him. The biggest concern is him assimilating that system, and understanding the complete way that the Jets offense will attack a defense."

Jaworski believes it will take a few weeks for those synapses to connect instantaneously, and that Favre will begin connecting with receivers regularly once it does.

Plus, Favre isn't quite as old as some others.

Take DeBerg.

His distinction? DeBerg was 44 years and 279 days old when he took snaps for the Atlanta Falcons in 1998, making him the oldest man to ever start an NFL game at quarterback. He lost that day, but his appearance alone was a testimony to his mental and physical conditioning over time. In fact, after years of struggling on terrible teams, DeBerg had his best seasons with Kansas City, after joining the Chiefs at age 34. He went 21-10 in his third and fourth years there, after turning 36.

DeBerg acknowledged that he was so "awful" early in his career that he didn't expect to last long, and attributed his longevity to his increased knowledge about how to prepare and perform.

That helped him compensate for any physical decline.

"The mental part if huge," said DeBerg, who has spent the past decade as a personal quarterback trainer. "You learn to train better. You learn techniques. You start doing all of that stuff as a pro for more than 10 years, and you've pretty much got it down."

Favre has been doing it, week in and week out, for 16 years. DeBerg believes that Favre has made late-career success possible by greatly quickening his release, becoming more efficient in the style of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.

"He used to be a windup and let it rip guy," DeBerg said.

That put his body at more risk, because it increased the odds of taking a shot while still in the throwing motion. That was a style that DeBerg would never teach young quarterbacks.

"A veteran quarterback, he will make plays happen fast and not take a lot of risks," DeBerg said. "And really, that is the way it is supposed to happen. What happens with these young quarterbacks, even if it was John Elway or Steve Young, when they were rookies, they were so athletic, they would look at one guy and take off. You just learn to stay in the pocket, make the original play work and read it out, and then if you have ability to escape, then you do."

Or you throw it away.

Favre was sacked only 15 times last season, the second-fewest of his career. Now he will play behind a different offensive line, but one fortified by the free-agent additions of veterans Alan Faneca and Damien Woody.

The more hits he avoids, the better.

"The recovery part just gets worse and worse," DeBerg said.

That's what Marino discovered. The Dolphin posted his worst numbers in his final season, throwing 12 touchdowns and 17 interceptions at age 38.

"For me, playing at that age, it was getting up for the games, getting through practice sometimes, was the tough part," Marino said. "Because of injuries over my career. When you get to 37 or 38, you might not be able to make the plays or throws as well you made in the past. You are going to need a group around you to help you succeed."

Marino stuck around longer than many elite quarterbacks. Joe Namath, Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman, Jim Kelly, Boomer Esiason and Dan Fouts all retired between the ages of 34 and 36.

Other quarterbacks were just getting started.

Many ridiculed the Raiders for signing journeyman Rich Gannon in 1999. Gannon was 34. He had started only 58 games. Yet those fresh legs came in handy. With the Raiders, Gannon made four Pro Bowls. He won a regular-season MVP and an AFC Championship.

"Early in my career, it's like I was sleepwalking," said Gannon, now a CBS analyst. "You don't know what you don't know. As a young player, I had no idea. I wasn't nearly as prepared as I should have been or could have been. I wasn't trained that way. I didn't really know how to prepare for a game."

He had streamlined his training enough that he believes he could have been productive into his 40s if not for a neck injury suffered in 2004. Phil Simms also played to age 39. In his final season for the Giants, he finished 11-5, and posted the highest completion percentage of his career.

"There is no question I could have played a few more," said Simms, also a CBS analyst.

But the Giants chose to go with the unproven Dave Brown and Kent Graham, so Simms retired.

That's one reason that many quarterbacks retire before 40: their team wants to get younger and cheaper. (That would be Ted). When the Packers stood firm on promoting Aaron Rodgers to the starting spot, Favre chose to keep playing elsewhere. Just as when the 49ers elected to elevate Steve Young, Joe Montana accepted a trade to Kansas City, and led the Chiefs to two playoff appearances.

Many have no choice but to retire in their 30s. Troy Aikman and Steve Young retired due to concussions. Joe Theismann retired due to a severely broken leg.

Others just keep going.

Warren Moon is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame largely on the strength of his play long after many contemporaries had retired. He played in the CFL until age 28. He established himself as one of the NFL's most prolific passers during 10 seasons with the Houston Oilers. Still, they wanted to turn the offense over to Cody Carlson, so they dealt Moon to Minnesota.

"I played seven more years," said Moon, who threw 8,492 yards his first two seasons as a Viking. "Cody only played one. But if I was a general manager, I would have made the same decision. They want to see the guy they put all their money and time into. Economically, it's often better to play a younger player."

Moon had the body of a younger man. He never suffered a serious injury, and he had maintained a strict diet, massage and chiropractor regimen.

"Some don't take care of themselves until they feel their body change or their skills deteriorate," said Moon, a Seattle Seahawks radio analyst. "It's almost too late at that point."

Late in a career than included years in Houston's quick-trigger run-and-shoot, Moon could think at warp speed. He felt like he was always a step ahead of the defense, knowing where he was throwing by the third or fourth step of his drop, allowing him to get a pass to its target quicker than the kid who threw with more velocity.

Moon also attributed his success to the chip always on his shoulder every time he played poorly or tweaked an ankle, observers attributed it to age.

Many say the the same in regard to Favre if he stumbles. As he noted Wednesday, he has a daughter who is only a few years younger than some of his teammates. And after remarking that Favre's "peers" had voted him a captain, Jets coach Eric Mangini smiled and corrected himself: "The kids voted him in."

What's changed over the years?

"As I've gotten older, I would like to sleep in a little longer," Favre said of game day.

Favre used to be an early riser, pacing as he pined for kickoff, and his roommate Frank Winters would tell him to settle down and go back to sleep.

"I kind of feel like Frank now," Favre quipped.

When does he get excited?

"When the first guy chases me," Favre said.

Chasing him like Father Time.

Ethan J. Skolnick is a sports columnist for the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.
#2 Posted : Saturday, September 6, 2008 11:32:24 AM(UTC)
I hope Brett fails

this week

for fantasy purposes.
#3 Posted : Saturday, September 6, 2008 11:39:26 AM(UTC)
Per the yellow text. Aaron Rodgers has equally a strong arm per his WR quotes.
#4 Posted : Saturday, September 6, 2008 1:40:36 PM(UTC)
That may be true.

But he doesn't have Favre's experience or ability, imo. :compress:
#5 Posted : Saturday, September 6, 2008 2:06:28 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
That may be true.

But he doesn't have Favre's experience or ability, imo. :compress:

You don't know that he hasn't been playing madden for the last 18 years!! :P
#6 Posted : Saturday, September 6, 2008 3:02:13 PM(UTC)
#7 Posted : Saturday, September 6, 2008 3:56:08 PM(UTC)
#8 Posted : Saturday, September 6, 2008 10:07:05 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
I hope Brett fails

this week

for fantasy purposes.

I hope Favre has a great game, I will be cheering.
#9 Posted : Saturday, September 6, 2008 10:40:21 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
I hope Brett fails

this week

for fantasy purposes.

I hope Favre has a great game, I will be cheering.

I'll be cheering like mad in week 2.
#10 Posted : Sunday, September 7, 2008 11:17:32 AM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
I hope Brett fails

this week

for fantasy purposes.

I hope Favre has a great game, I will be cheering.

I'll be cheering like mad in week 2.

I will be cheering for ya Tromadz! :)
#11 Posted : Sunday, September 7, 2008 11:29:52 AM(UTC)
I feel a little like a trader but I hope Dolphins win this one big. I just want to see Chad get a little revenge on the Jets for getting cut because of Brett.

The rest of the season I hope Brett does great. The better he does the better pick we get.
Rss Feed
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.



Fan Shout
Nonstopdrivel (2m) : I prefer toads to frogs, Smokey, thank you very much.
Rockmolder (2h) : My girlfriends says thanks, Rourke.
Smokey (9h) : Nonstopdrivel that you most likely say to all the frogs you meet .
Nonstopdrivel (18h) : Rockmolder's avatar is so fucking sexy.
gbguy20 (18h) : never seen the interview before. tough to listen to. can't believe it was 7 years ago
gbguy20 (18h) : just watched a nick Collins tribute on yourube. the end featured an interview with nick reflecting on his injury
buckeyepackfan (17-Feb) : Saints De'Vante Harris nothing but a POS!!!!! Look up his tweetes on Florida killings!!
Nonstopdrivel (17-Feb) : They're laying new gas line near my house. The trucks are all from a company in Madison.
Smokey (14-Feb) : 2018 Hall o Fame Game/Aug.2,2018/Ravens vs Bears
Zero2Cool (13-Feb) : Based off 2017 records, Packers have toughest schedule for 2018
Smokey (13-Feb) : Wow, tough new 2018 Packer Schedule !
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : I don't know anything about him though. He good? Bad?
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Free Agent CB David Amerson ... bring him in!
Smokey (11-Feb) : Coffee time .
Smokey (11-Feb) : Watching girls olympic Hockey.
Rockmolder (10-Feb) : They'd have to give up half their draft. Cousins seems more likely.
Rockmolder (10-Feb) : I've read that somewhere. Wasn't anything more than speculation. Can't imagine it'll happen.
Smokey (10-Feb) : Might Denver trade with Cleveland for the #1 draft pick ?
Cheesey (10-Feb) : Zero is having fun yanking some chains!LOL!
Porforis (9-Feb) : KAPERNICK! jay kay
Zero2Cool (9-Feb) : Sign Case Keenum, trade Aaron Rodgers. Bring us a winner! (haha0
Zero2Cool (9-Feb) : in other words, it wasn't going against the salary cap, that's the point here.
Zero2Cool (9-Feb) : Favre wasn't offered $25 to stay retired! My lord, he was offered 10 year merchandising deal.
Zero2Cool (9-Feb) : Packers should be leaders, not followers. Set the trend, don't be the trend.
Zero2Cool (9-Feb) : Just because 49ers overpaid, doesn't mean other teams should be stupid.
gbguy20 (9-Feb) : wouldn't hurt the cap, just the bottom line. we offered favre 25 mill to stay retired.
gbguy20 (9-Feb) : or get him to take a team friendly number now while promising him a massive marketing contract in retirement to make up for it
gbguy20 (9-Feb) : jimmy g set the record after 7 starts. you really think Rodgers value goes down? sign him now and make it cap friendly for the next 2 years. get him for 28.5 per now instead of 34 per year a year or 2
Zero2Cool (9-Feb) : He has multiple years left, he can wait until final year, like the process goes
Zero2Cool (9-Feb) : he didn't play like a Superstar vs Panthers, he doesn't deserve new deal.
Porforis (9-Feb) : This assumes Rodgers continues to play like a superstar and doesn't miss additional seasons, lowering his value entering the mid to tail end of his career.
gbguy20 (9-Feb) : the longer we wait the worse it will get
gbguy20 (9-Feb) : the long
Zero2Cool (9-Feb) : Can't do that paying one player so much.
Zero2Cool (9-Feb) : Once he's paid, we're done. We can't draft AND develop. Need outside help.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2017 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 10 @ 3:25 PM
Sunday, Sep 17 @ 7:30 PM
at Falcons
Sunday, Sep 24 @ 3:25 PM
Thursday, Sep 28 @ 7:25 PM
Sunday, Oct 8 @ 3:25 PM
at Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 15 @ 12:00 PM
at Vikings
Sunday, Oct 22 @ 12:00 PM
Sunday, Oct 29 @ 12:00 AM
- BYE -
Monday, Nov 6 @ 7:30 PM
Sunday, Nov 12 @ 12:00 PM
at Bears
Sunday, Nov 19 @ 12:00 PM
Sunday, Nov 26 @ 7:30 PM
at Steelers
Sunday, Dec 3 @ 12:00 PM
Sunday, Dec 10 @ 12:00 PM
at Browns
Sunday, Dec 17 @ 12:00 PM
at Panthers
Saturday, Dec 23 @ 7:30 PM
Sunday, Dec 31 @ 12:00 PM
at Lions
Think About It
Think About It
Recent Topics
27m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Porforis

1h / Random Babble / yooperfan

4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Smokey

17h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Cheesey

18-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Smokey

17-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Rockmolder

16-Feb / Around The NFL / Cheesey

15-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Cheesey

14-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

13-Feb / Football Familiarity / Smokey

12-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

11-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

8-Feb / Random Babble / Smokey

8-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Smokey

8-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / sschind