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Offline Pack93z  
#21 Posted : Monday, September 8, 2008 1:19:49 PM(UTC)
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Before we get to far down this "abandon" the running game theme.. you have to have some type of a running game to win in the playoffs.. I could care less if you pass 75% of the time, you have to have a threat on the ground to keep the D balanced. There have been cases where a team has defied that long and tested theory.. but it holds true a greater percentage of the time.

The 49ers of the 80's had Craig and Rathman..

The small percentage of the time the backs touch the ball, they have to produce positive effective gains.. otherwise, no matter how creative you are in the schemes of the passing game.. an aggressive defensive front and a decent game plan in the secondary will catch up with you sooner or later.
Offline Greg C.  
#22 Posted : Monday, September 8, 2008 1:33:30 PM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
Before we get to far down this "abandon" the running game theme.. you have to have some type of a running game to win in the playoffs.. I could care less if you pass 75% of the time, you have to have a threat on the ground to keep the D balanced. There have been cases where a team has defied that long and tested theory.. but it holds true a greater percentage of the time.

The 49ers of the 80's had Craig and Rathman..

The small percentage of the time the backs touch the ball, they have to produce positive effective gains.. otherwise, no matter how creative you are in the schemes of the passing game.. an aggressive defensive front and a decent game plan in the secondary will catch up with you sooner or later.


Holy overreaction, Batman! Who said anything about abandoning the running game? I was just pointing out that nowadays most teams pass more than they run. But both are still very important.
Offline zombieslayer  
#23 Posted : Monday, September 8, 2008 1:42:31 PM(UTC)
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Agreed with Greg C. Just because I said the passing game was more important doesn't mean you can have Joe Fumble as your RB.

I think Mike McCarthy earlier this year mentioned the passing % of the top tier teams and I think of the top 5 last year, I think four of them were at or near 70% pass. I think the Giants had the lowest % of passing of the top 5 (Packers, Cows, Pats, Colts, and the Giants).
Offline Pack93z  
#24 Posted : Monday, September 8, 2008 2:20:57 PM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post

Holy overreaction, Batman! Who said anything about abandoning the running game? I was just pointing out that nowadays most teams pass more than they run. But both are still very important.


LOL.. I apparently didn't phrase it well enough or make my point clear, what I was trying to get at is that I agree that it is less important to run 45 or 50 % of the time, but in the percentage that you are going to run it needs to be consistent and effective.

In other words, I think the pass to run ratio is an over rated stat.. I personally am more concerned about how consistent and effective it is than just running it to balance the numbers for the talking heads and those that print the stat a 1000 times a week.

That is all.. nothing more. Sorry for the lack of explaining myself clearly the first time through..
Offline zombieslayer  
#25 Posted : Monday, September 8, 2008 2:34:26 PM(UTC)
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In the future, you may even see a football team that uses RBs mostly for screens, short passes, and pass protection with your top RB getting a whopping 700 yards rushing and still the O can't be stopped.

Like take the Pats in '07 for instance. Best O ever. Top RB gets 865 yards rushing, but who was really more important, Maroney or K Faulk?
Offline Pack93z  
#26 Posted : Monday, September 8, 2008 2:43:20 PM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post

Like take the Pats in '07 for instance. Best O ever. Top RB gets 865 yards rushing, but who was really more important, Maroney or K Faulk?


That is my point though.. they ran into a team with an aggressive front on defense that wasn't afraid to pin there ears back and all out rush the QB every snap. I could care less if you run it 10 % of the time.. you have to have that element of effectiveness to the ground game to win it all in this league.

In your example, that was a total different team with Maroney healthy verse not.. he brought a level of threat to the ground game where others just were another guy in the backfield.

But I agree.. the 3 yards and a cloud of dust days are out of cycle in the NFL right now.. until the defenses catch up or the league takes away some of the rules to slow up the passing game that assist offenses right now.
Offline DarkaneRules  
#27 Posted : Monday, September 8, 2008 2:43:54 PM(UTC)
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Play action passing will always be very important in the NFL. The running game has to be respected for that to work.
Offline zombieslayer  
#28 Posted : Monday, September 8, 2008 3:04:23 PM(UTC)
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Ah ha. Here's what I was looking for.

Let's take the 49ers 5 SB teams.

81 - win the SB with Ricky Patton (half of you saying "who?") rushing for a whopping 543 yards. Well, I guess they did have a rushing threat. Earl Cooper added another 330.

84 - Niners are a very balanced team with Wendell Tyler rushing for 1200+ yards and a young Roger Craig adding another 500+.

88 - Roger Craig has 1500+ yards.

89 - Craig has 1054.

94 - Ricky Watters leads the Niners with 877 yards.

So...
In of the Niners 5 SB wins, twice, they don't even have a 1000+ yard RB, which we all know isn't really that hard to do in a 16 game season (more than half the NFL has a 1000+ rusher on an average year in the 00s).

Sure, the threat of being able to pound the rock is nice, but what really beat the Pats in '07 was better coaching, not the running game. Watch the game again. Coughlin outsmarted Belichick. It was like a chess match where someone knocks off the champion.
Offline warhawk  
#29 Posted : Monday, September 8, 2008 6:51:36 PM(UTC)
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I believe one reason the trend is up in emphasizing the pass is because the rules of today's NFL keeping DB's hands off of receivers is a point OC's HAVE GOT TO EXPLOIT.

Ever since that one SB (sorry, can't remember which one) where the DB's mugged the receivers the whole game and completely shut down the other teams offense and the league rules changed this has been the case. The league WANTS more offense. It sells tickets. The no-touch after five rule provides that.

If the league was letting OL get more jersey on run plays and letting corners beat up the WR's the opposite would be true and teams would be running the hell out of the ball.

The other dynamic today that challenges run offenses is the speed of todays defenders. These LB's running 4.4's and DE's running 4'8's changes the complexion of the game. Now it's all about seeing the field and cutting back. Getting fast "D"'s to overreact is where you find almost all the big runs in today's game. Straight up holes don't stay holes long anymore.
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