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bakler5  
#1 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 6:12:07 PM(UTC)
After two weeks anyone know who is number 1 and 2 in passes defensed?
That's right Al Harris and Chuck Woodson. I see both these two having big years. I am sick of everyone saying there are getting to be too old to play in this league. And to everyone that says Harris is slow, when is the last time anyone saw him get out ran? He has fast game speed which is all that matters.
Greg C.  
#2 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 6:19:13 PM(UTC)
I'm with you. As I've said before, I think Woodson at 31 is still in his prime and Harris at 33 is either in his prime or just slightly past it. My only worry about their ages is that they could be more susceptible to injuries, particularly Harris, as both of them have such a physical style of play.

Harris and Woodson don't get beaten deep very often because they have such good anticipation. That's something that Ahmad Carroll did not have, which is why he sucked in spite of his speed.
Bigbyfan  
#3 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 6:24:16 PM(UTC)
Thank you for this post
blueleopard  
#4 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 6:26:46 PM(UTC)
They went against Tarvaris Jackson and Jon Kitna.

Harris got burned by Sidney Rice.

Woodson let Calvin escape with hella yards and two TD's.

They only defensed all those passes because quarterbacks no longer scared them.

I don't mean to piss on the party, but until I see those two get the best of Tony Romo and Peyton Manning, then I won't brag about them.

Woodson is money though.
bozz_2006  
#5 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 6:31:48 PM(UTC)
I thought this was going to be a post about how Brett isn't too old to play at a high level. Thanks for starting that thread.
bakler5  
#6 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 6:36:03 PM(UTC)
Woodson got burned on the first touchdown because he was trying to make a great interception that he was inches off on. Hey if we are up 15 points and still got guys going all out like that in the 4th quarter then I am as happy as a pig in mud man. He went for a big play, barely missed it, and they got a touchdown, big deal that isn't what got the Lions back in the game. Woodson plays a high risk/high reward style of game. Wouldn't have it any other way. The reason the Lions came back was because McCarthy got way too complacent just like he did in the Vikings game. I don't care who we played, or what QBs they faced, we have been ahead all season as well and our passing yards against do not suggest that.
evad04  
#7 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 6:36:56 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
They went against Tarvaris Jackson and Jon Kitna.

Harris got burned by Sidney Rice.

Woodson let Calvin escape with hella yards and two TD's.

They only defensed all those passes because quarterbacks no longer scared them.

I don't mean to piss on the party, but until I see those two get the best of Tony Romo and Peyton Manning, then I won't brag about them.

Woodson is money though.

You're missing some context here, otherwise I agree with most of what you've said.

One of Calvin Johnson's TDs was with Tramon Williams guarding him. The other, Woodson did give up inside position. But both TDs could have been avoided by better safety play. Woodson should be accountable for some of it, but you can't say he gave up two TDs because it's just not the facts.
Greg C.  
#8 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 6:45:05 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
They went against Tarvaris Jackson and Jon Kitna.

Harris got burned by Sidney Rice.

Woodson let Calvin escape with hella yards and two TD's.

They only defensed all those passes because quarterbacks no longer scared them.

I don't mean to piss on the party, but until I see those two get the best of Tony Romo and Peyton Manning, then I won't brag about them.

Woodson is money though.

You're missing some context here, otherwise I agree with most of what you've said.

One of Calvin Johnson's TDs was with Tramon Williams guarding him. The other, Woodson did give up inside position. But both TDs could have been avoided by better safety play. Woodson should be accountable for some of it, but you can't say he gave up two TDs because it's just not the facts.


Bingo. You can't expect a corner to guard a good receiver one-on-one in the middle of the field, especially a big receiver like Calvin Johnson who can't be defended once he gets inside position. There should have been a linebacker or a safety in position to prevent both of those TD's by Johnson.

Getting back to blueleopard's post, your point about Tarvaris Jackson and Jon Kitna is well-taken, but come on, Woodson and Harris have been good CB's for years now. They've done the job against better QB's. And I don't remember Harris getting burned by Sidney Rice. On the TD, Bigby had coverage over the middle and stumbled. Maybe it's a different play you're talking about. CB's are going to get burned sometimes anyway, especially when they play as much one-on-one as ours do. But as long as they don't get burned too often, they are doing their jobs.
zombieslayer  
#9 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 7:52:18 PM(UTC)
In defense of Woody, yes, he only got burned for one TD. The thing though is he was going for the INT. Surprise, surprise, Kitna threw a perfect pass.

The good thing about Harris is he's a workout nut, a complete nut. The way he works out, he's aging much slower than the average NFL player, which is really saying something because these guys are the best of the best.

The test for both of them is against the Cows. They not only have an elite WR, but an OL that will give their QB time to hit that WR.
PackerTraxx  
#10 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 9:50:34 PM(UTC)
They are one of the top 2 or 3 tandems in the league. One certainly has to admire their toughness, gameness and professionalism. Woodson's ability to play hurt at a high level is off the charts. They are playing well now but I would like to see the Pack pick up a young corner that can develop into 1 or 2 high level corners within the next couple of years. The backups we have now are not the type you can win championships with as starters.
4PackGirl  
#11 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 9:53:24 PM(UTC)
gawd i'm sure i'll get trashed for this comment but here goes...i don't like harris. never have, never will. i don't know why but i just have never bought into the hype over him. so...trash away or...help me understand what makes him "great" in some of your minds - i'm trying to learn here people!! :D
Zero2Cool  
#12 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 9:56:23 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
gawd i'm sure i'll get trashed for this comment but here goes...i don't like harris. never have, never will. i don't know why but i just have never bought into the hype over him. so...trash away or...help me understand what makes him "great" in some of your minds - i'm trying to learn here people!! :D


I think great is over rating him. He is really good, but he has a weakness. Once he gets wound up, he loses his edge. We saw it against Terrell Owens and Plaxico (wow, that is a weird ass name) Burress.
CDNRodgersfan  
#13 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 10:00:09 PM(UTC)
I use to hate Harris when we got him but I've come to like him although he does seem to have trouble when matched up with a big time WR which surprises me since I thought his in your face style would be better suited to go against a guy likke TO.
Greg C.  
#14 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 11:30:42 PM(UTC)
There are two reasons why Al Harris tends to struggle against elite WR's:

1. He has to guard them (Woodson doesn't).

2. There are very few CB's who don't struggle when matched one-on-one with elite WR's. There are no "shutdown" corners in the league right now, as far as I know. The only one I've ever seen was Deion Sanders.
RaiderPride  
#15 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 11:32:03 PM(UTC)
The last time Harris was owned was three games ago. That is a fact.

However, everyone at one time or another get's owned. We all can have a charachter building day at work. I know I have, and I know you have as well.

They are so solid. They are the best tandom in the NFL as far as my mind.
They are sneaky smart and sneaky fast. Wisdom trumps youth in so many situations.

I just watched the M.N.F. Half Time "Fastest 3 Minutes in football" Highlights....
The Boomer Yells Out "The Pack Are Back."

Chris.... They never left, so how can they back? GO PACK GO!
Zero2Cool  
#16 Posted : Monday, September 15, 2008 11:39:07 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
The last time Harris was owned was three games ago. That is a fact.


When I made the highlight video of that game I noticed one thing about the Harris/Burress match up. The ball was placed VERY well and often times only in a location that Burress could catch it. I was very critical of his performance in that game, but gosh, the ball was placed very well and I'm not sure there is too many CB's who could have done better.
gbpfan  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:25:49 AM(UTC)
i like harris you have to wach him when you think you have him boom an intercption,yes he draws penalties some huge but for the most part he plays well,this sunday we all know t.o will try and get the better of him but al needs to listen to team mates and take the help if needed took that from leroy in is Q&A on jsonline :icon_smile:
Packers_Finland  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, September 16, 2008 11:55:32 AM(UTC)
There is at least one shutdown corner in the league. Nnamdi Asomugha. I haven't seen much of him this year, but passes thrown his way last year were 9-of-29.
Greg C.  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, September 16, 2008 12:36:07 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
There is at least one shutdown corner in the league. Nnamdi Asomugha. I haven't seen much of him this year, but passes thrown his way last year were 9-of-29.

You may be right. I haven't really gotten a chance to watch him play. I'm guessing that opposing QB's don't throw at him very often because the rest of the Raiders defense is much easier to deal with.
all_about_da_packers  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, September 16, 2008 2:42:40 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
The last time Harris was owned was three games ago. That is a fact.


When I made the highlight video of that game I noticed one thing about the Harris/Burress match up. The ball was placed VERY well and often times only in a location that Burress could catch it. I was very critical of his performance in that game, but gosh, the ball was placed very well and I'm not sure there is too many CB's who could have done better.



Finally I'm not alone in that line of thinking!!!

I got blasted by a certain someone for suggesting Eli was damn accurate that night. The stats may not show it, but Eli delivered the ball quickly, just as Plax came out of his breaks and before Al could turn his head around to realize a pass was coming.

Al got owned, but it wasn't as if Al showed his age. The Giants (and Eli/Plax specifically) executed magnificently.
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