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Cal2GreenBay  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 1:46:24 PM(UTC)
I like the quotes in this article

Rodgers is a "younger, more practical version of Brett Favre...w/out the
lovable mistakes" hehe


http://sports.espn.go.co...otlight&lid=tab3pos2

There are many lessons to be learned from the dual sagas of Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith, not the least of which is this: The best time to draft a quarterback is when you don't need one.

Carrying a clipboard was the smartest thing the Packers asked Rodgers to do. Easier said than done, of course, since there are times when you don't think you need one until suddenly you discover you do. Still, the idea is solid. It's pretty much unquestioned that quarterback is the most important position in any team sport. Nothing else really compares -- not a big-time starting pitcher (significant only every fifth day) or even a LeBron James-type basketball player (though that one comes closest).

When you factor in how much football coaches expect a quarterback to learn and how quickly they expect him to learn it, there's no other position that deserves a place in the discussion. And if NFL offenses seem at times to be overly complicated -- maybe even artificially complicated -- well, you're not alone in that line of thinking. No matter, though, since wondering if all of that professorial, sleep-in-the-office stuff is necessary doesn't make it any easier to master.

There's no doubt Rodgers would have rather been playing in Green Bay -- or maybe somewhere else -- than standing on the sidelines in a ballcap waving in signs like a third-base coach. For three years he played behind Brett Favre, and it was the rare instance in football where nobody clamored for the backup.

It's also true that Rodgers' time as a backup to Favre couldn't have been better for the Packers. How good do they look now? They drafted him in 2005 knowing he wouldn't play right away, and now that he is playing he looks like a younger, more practical version of Favre. So far, he's Brett without all those lovable mistakes.

The theory on Rodgers is this: It wouldn't have happened if he started as a rookie. In fact, if he had started as a rookie, it might not have happened at all.

Which brings us back to Alex Smith. Taken by a quarterback-starved 49ers team with the first pick of the same draft, Smith was tossed into the grinder far too soon. He played poorly, got hurt and wandered through three different offensive coordinators in his first three years.

[+] Enlarge

Phil Carter/US Presswire
Who knows what Alex Smith could have done if he were not thrown into the fire so quickly?
Were the talent evaluators that far off on the respective talents of Smith and Rodgers, or did their circumstances dictate their futures? Rodgers has started only two games, so there's always the possibility this won't last, but no quarterback has hit the ground running like this guy in the past 10 years. And Smith, out for the year with another shoulder injury and ostensibly through as a 49er, is being discussed as the worst pick in the history of the NFL draft.

And right now, it would be hard to craft a compelling argument against that statement.

Assuming the talent evaluators had some level of competence, the difference is largely location. Smith was the great hope for 49ers fans hoping for a return to the team's quarterback-centric glory. After all, there's only so much Tim Rattay, Ken Dorsey and Cody Pickett that any dues-paying fan can take.

So what's a team to do? If you have the luxury, pick a quarterback high in the draft and wait it out. As a real-life example, think about how many years Peyton Manning has left at his current level. Four, maybe five? Assuming Jim Sorgi isn't a solution, there's only one option for the Colts: Look for a quarterback, now, with the idea of getting one of the top two in next year's draft. Pick your linebackers and wide receivers after the first round, and concentrate on the most important position first.

Either that, or choose this option: Sign Alex Smith. Give him the apprentice years he wasn't afforded in San Francisco. That way, we'd all get to see whether environment is the main factor in the development of a quarterback.
zombieslayer  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 2:11:48 PM(UTC)
Quote:
And Smith, out for the year with another shoulder injury and ostensibly through as a 49er, is being discussed as the worst pick in the history of the NFL draft.


No. This just throws any intelligence from this article.

We picked T*** M******** when Barry Sanders, who can be argued is the best RB who ever played the game, came after. Also, in that draft came Deion Sanders, who some regard as the best shutdown corner ever to play the game. Also in that draft after TM was Derrick Thomas, who was in the Pro Bowl 9 times and should be in the HOF. We could have also had Steve Atwater and Andre Rison (who we eventually picked up in '96 when we won the SB).

There have been other notable busts like Ryan Leaf, etc. Alex Smith doesn't belong in the same discussion as Leaf and TM. That's as far as I read and won't even bother to read the rest.
Packnic  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 2:31:01 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
And Smith, out for the year with another shoulder injury and ostensibly through as a 49er, is being discussed as the worst pick in the history of the NFL draft.


No. This just throws any intelligence from this article.

We picked T*** M******** when Barry Sanders, who can be argued is the best RB who ever played the game, came after. Also, in that draft came Deion Sanders, who some regard as the best shutdown corner ever to play the game. Also in that draft after TM was Derrick Thomas, who was in the Pro Bowl 9 times and should be in the HOF. We could have also had Steve Atwater and Andre Rison (who we eventually picked up in '96 when we won the SB).

There have been other notable busts like Ryan Leaf, etc. Alex Smith doesn't belong in the same discussion as Leaf and TM. That's as far as I read and won't even bother to read the rest.



good grief zombie. over react much?


Tony Mandarich was a second overall pick behind Troy Aikman.
Ryan Leaf was a second overall pick behind Peyton Manning.


Alex Smith was a QB and went number one overall. Drafting a bust at QB with the #1 pick is a LOT bigger deal than drafting an offensive lineman that bust. You pin your hopes on QBs, not second pick lineman.

He is absolutely in the discussion for worst draft pick ever. He is right up there with Ryan Leaf. Ryan Leaf is a big deal because of his mental breakdowns and the press that followed.

But i think Alex Smith is the biggest bust we have seen. He was drafted Number 1 overall and labelled the "savior that will return QB glory to San Fran". He failed miserably, and the worst part is that they could have had Aaron Rodgers. Drafting Alex Smith was a FAIL of epic proportions.
bigfog  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 2:40:10 PM(UTC)
In the case of Alex Smith, I wouldn't call him a bust as much as I would say that San Francisco ruined him.

Smith shares part of the blame, but I've said this before, San Francisco didn't do him any favors. Smith's failure lies squarely on the San Francisco 49ers.
zombieslayer  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 2:53:50 PM(UTC)
Packnic - I agree with Bigfog. SF ruined him. He could have been a decent QB, not as good as Aaron Rodgers , but decent. 3 different OCs in 3 years. Took a lot of real bad hits. Thrown to the wolves with a separated shoulder.

Now TM, he was supposed to be the best offensive linemen who EVER played the game. Ever. Bar none. He was supposed to knock everyone out of the way and drive defenders into the ground, and make them wish they never got out of bed. The iconic image of TM was him pounding a defender into the end zone, standing over him, and screaming "and stay down!"

You may be too young to remember this, but there was an incredible amount of hype surrounding TM. Incredible. Those who weren't there would have no idea just how big of a deal he was supposed to be.
Packnic  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:02:47 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
Packnic - I agree with Bigfog. SF ruined him. He could have been a decent QB, not as good as Aaron Rodgers , but decent. 3 different OCs in 3 years. Took a lot of real bad hits. Thrown to the wolves with a separated shoulder.

Now TM, he was supposed to be the best offensive linemen who EVER played the game. Ever. Bar none. He was supposed to knock everyone out of the way and drive defenders into the ground, and make them wish they never got out of bed. The iconic image of TM was him pounding a defender into the end zone, standing over him, and screaming "and stay down!"

You may be too young to remember this, but there was an incredible amount of hype surrounding TM. Incredible. Those who weren't there would have no idea just how big of a deal he was supposed to be.


Im not saying TM wasn't a huge bust. Im just saying that Alex Smith ABSOLUTELY deserves to be in the discusion.
dingus  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:10:43 PM(UTC)
I too believe Alex was thrown to the wolves and is not so much a bust as he was busted.

The 49ers did him no favors and he should sue! (kidding about the lawsuit part!)
wpr  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:22:24 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
I like the quotes in this article

Rodgers is a "younger, more practical version of Brett Favre...w/out the
lovable mistakes" hehe

Better be careful, Roddy will find out where you live an let the air our your tires if you say things like that. :ramboface:
Greg C.  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 5:32:23 PM(UTC)
A good article overall, but I disagree with the author's statement that a QB is more important to a team than a star basketball player. In basketball, there are only five players on the floor at one time, and they play both offense and defense. One player can have an enormous impact in that situation. In football, you've got 11 players on the field, and none of them are there more than half the time. Of course a QB is very important, but I think this guy is exaggerating.
wpr  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 5:36:54 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
A good article overall, but I disagree with the author's statement that a QB is more important to a team than a star basketball player. In basketball, there are only five players on the floor at one time, and they play both offense and defense. One player can have an enormous impact in that situation. In football, you've got 11 players on the field, and none of them are there more than half the time. Of course a QB is very important, but I think this guy is exaggerating.


Yep I thought so too. A Jordan type player can take 4 other avg players and make it into the playoffs and even make a run in the post season. A QB and 10 avg players may or may not make the playoffs but they sure won't go very far.
ChilliMaddensChilli  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:31:20 PM(UTC)
If Rodgers wins 4+ pro bowls and/or a Lombardi trophy then Smith will be a top candidate for biggest bust ever.
Zero2Cool  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:43:09 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
If Rodgers wins 4+ pro bowls and/or a Lombardi trophy then Smith will be a top candidate for biggest bust ever.


I get what you're saying, but I have to disagree. I don't think one player should be called a bust based on another players career.
CaliforniaCheez  
#13 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 8:26:55 PM(UTC)
Quarterbacks need time to develop. Before we go overboard on Rodgers remember he was very bad his first two years. The coaching staf was changing his mechanics and he did not manage the clock well in the two minute drill.

Then in 2007 he was impressive in the improvement demonstrated on the field. In preseason he improvised when things went wrong or receivers ran the wrong routes. It was a huge jump and the mechanics were under control.

He still is learning and with experience will only continue to improve. Look again for a jump next year as he studies this year's film of himself as a starter and analyzes what he can do better.

Now for Alex Smith. Living in the area I have seen many of his games and saw him from day one. McCarthy had him as a rookie almost always rolling outto the right so he only had to scan half the field. His protection was not good. It was obvious he was not ready. They threw him into the deep end of the pool and told him to learn how swim.

Norv Turner actually got the most out of him his second year. There is an apprenticeship to Quarterbacking and Norv was the most patient and understanding coach he has had.

Mike Martz is now his 4th Offensive Coodinator. The guy never had a chance to work on NFL level mechanics and some bad habits were never corrected as there ws no time. Alex Smith will rehab and end up as a back up on some middle of the road team next year. I hope he can resurrect his career in a couple of years.

What is not mentioned is that Flynn and Brohm now have the opportunities as Rodgers did. Eventually one will be kept and one will be traded for a chance to play elsewhere. Ted will have backups and a profit on the draft pick obtained.

Things are fine in Green Bay. Let's hope Flynn does not have to get thrown in like Alex Smith.
zombieslayer  
#14 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:18:00 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
A good article overall, but I disagree with the author's statement that a QB is more important to a team than a star basketball player. In basketball, there are only five players on the floor at one time, and they play both offense and defense. One player can have an enormous impact in that situation. In football, you've got 11 players on the field, and none of them are there more than half the time. Of course a QB is very important, but I think this guy is exaggerating.


I think Michael Jordan did more for the Bulls than any QB did for their team, including Joe Montana and Tom Brady.

I don't even think this guy's a good writer. He tries to say things to elicit responses and blows things out of proportion.
CubanPenguin  
#15 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:23:50 PM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
A good article overall, but I disagree with the author's statement that a QB is more important to a team than a star basketball player. In basketball, there are only five players on the floor at one time, and they play both offense and defense. One player can have an enormous impact in that situation. In football, you've got 11 players on the field, and none of them are there more than half the time. Of course a QB is very important, but I think this guy is exaggerating.



Very good point but the first thing that came to my mind was a goalie in Hockey, they are by far the most important individual on a hockey team.

A great one can make a bad team good and a bad one can make a great team bad. Also the same can be said for a soccer goalie, but there are far less shots in soccer that a good D can hold them to just a few.
dingus  
#16 Posted : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:19:53 PM(UTC)
Good points, CalCheez
Trippster  
#17 Posted : Thursday, September 18, 2008 10:37:03 AM(UTC)
" said: Go to Quoted Post
" said: Go to Quoted Post
A good article overall, but I disagree with the author's statement that a QB is more important to a team than a star basketball player. In basketball, there are only five players on the floor at one time, and they play both offense and defense. One player can have an enormous impact in that situation. In football, you've got 11 players on the field, and none of them are there more than half the time. Of course a QB is very important, but I think this guy is exaggerating.



Very good point but the first thing that came to my mind was a goalie in Hockey, they are by far the most important individual on a hockey team.

A great one can make a bad team good and a bad one can make a great team bad. Also the same can be said for a soccer goalie, but there are far less shots in soccer that a good D can hold them to just a few.


being an ex goalie, I agree!!! :thumbleft:

Acually, I don't think you can compare. they all have such different responsibilities and influence on their team. I would guess that in the other sports (football, hockey, etc) there can be plays that do not include them and many times are. In football though, all (well, 99,9%) plays include the QB and are heavily influenced by his physical play and the decisions he makes.
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