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Offline Formo  
#121 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2009 10:41:59 PM(UTC)
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djcubez, I never would have expected you to jump on me for pointing out some 'excuses'. But I know there are a handful of people that would have. That was my point. It's hard, but I, too, want intelligent football talk with objective views.

Zombie, I agree, the Stillers played all out. Which is why this loss didn't bother me much. I still believe the Vikings best play would beat the Stillers best play, it just wasn't in the cards this past week.

DGB454, I think the Vikings hit their peak and may be on the decline.. At least until they are ranked number 1 in all power rankings (definitely not now, and probably not at all this season, unless a SB win occurs). I enjoyed being at 6-0, and I still enjoy being 6-1. =D
Offline djcubez  
#122 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2009 10:49:17 PM(UTC)
Rank: Senior Member

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I think the Bears were optimistic too. The difference is they beat the Steelers. Look at them now.

That being said..... You guys actually have a reason to be optimistic. As long as Favre can hold up you have a good chance at going into the post season with a solid team.


Exactly my point. But it gets translated into 'Favre being a God', and how he 'can't do any wrong', etc etc etc etc. We can't win in that discussion.



Formo.. It isn't the normal fan that creates the Favre is god objections... it is jaded comments like this.

Quote:
That defense is playing like ASS. Peterson is not doing anything out of this world. His receivers dropped like 7 easy balls and the last one returned for a TD when Favre was about to punch in the go ahead score. If you watched it, you know this is so. To say otherwise is just sour grapes.


Favre wasn't out there himself... but comments like this skew the arguments.


First off, I don't see how Gravedigga's comment could have been skewed too much. The only objection I have is the defense playing like 'ASS'. I agree, it could have played better.. and if they knew how to catch an effin' football, they could have put the game away long before the last ditch effort at the end (two plays IN A ROW Vikings defenders dropped easy INTs on the drive with Rothlesburger's TD pass to their rookie WR). But otherwise, with the Whinny injury, I was impressed with the Vikings D.

Second off, you know damn straight that I would have been 'mauled' if I came on here complaining about ref calls and bad bounces, and how the one 'tripping' penalty caused a 14 point swing that could have effected the outcome of the game, and how Favre's INT was in no way his fault because it hit Chester RIGHT IN THE DAMN HANDS. It would have been turned around into how much I sniffed Brett's jock and how he could do no wrong that game.

Maybe not by you, or by even the majority.. But there would have been people here that would have eaten that crap up. Bottom line, the Vikings played a fairly good game, and the Stillers played a notch better.


Wait wait... do Vikings fans really think that tripping call was a bad call? It was a bad play at a very inopportune time, I will give them that. But if that's not a trip, I'm not sure what is.


Yes, it was a bad call. He left the ground (thus eliminating a possibility for him to purposefully attempt to 'trip' the defender), which I agree with Pack93z isn't the best way to block, but it wasn't a trip.. I've seen multiple backs make that type of block, and never have I seen a flag for 'tripping'. You claiming it a trip is seeing it through green goggles.


I didn't see the play in question so my opinion isn't worth much on this however the definition of tripping in the NFL is "Using a leg or foot to trip another player." If indeed the player did use his leg or foot to trip another player regardless of the situation than it can be called a trip. Like I said I didn't see the play so I could even be aiding Formo's argument.

Secondly, even if it is a bad call you have to roll with them. The Packers had a terrible call in the Bears game on Al Harris when in fact there should have been a penalty called on the Bears instead of on the Pack. I'm not trying to say "we're even" or anything of that sort--just that these sorts of calls happen.

Also I'd like to point out that just because the ref may have nerfed a touchdown with a bogus call doesn't mean he gave the ball to the Steelers. Favre did that on his own 3 plays later.

Quote:
Three plays later, Brett Favre was sacked, and LaMarr Woodley returned a fumble 77 yards for a touchdown, resulting in a 14-point swing.


You also got a kickoff return TD right after the fumble return by the Steelers so I don't think you can put too much blame on that one call (even though it seems the rest of the world agrees it was bad).
Offline Formo  
#123 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2009 11:11:42 PM(UTC)
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Joined: 8/12/2008(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
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I think the Bears were optimistic too. The difference is they beat the Steelers. Look at them now.

That being said..... You guys actually have a reason to be optimistic. As long as Favre can hold up you have a good chance at going into the post season with a solid team.


Exactly my point. But it gets translated into 'Favre being a God', and how he 'can't do any wrong', etc etc etc etc. We can't win in that discussion.



Formo.. It isn't the normal fan that creates the Favre is god objections... it is jaded comments like this.

Quote:
That defense is playing like ASS. Peterson is not doing anything out of this world. His receivers dropped like 7 easy balls and the last one returned for a TD when Favre was about to punch in the go ahead score. If you watched it, you know this is so. To say otherwise is just sour grapes.


Favre wasn't out there himself... but comments like this skew the arguments.


First off, I don't see how Gravedigga's comment could have been skewed too much. The only objection I have is the defense playing like 'ASS'. I agree, it could have played better.. and if they knew how to catch an effin' football, they could have put the game away long before the last ditch effort at the end (two plays IN A ROW Vikings defenders dropped easy INTs on the drive with Rothlesburger's TD pass to their rookie WR). But otherwise, with the Whinny injury, I was impressed with the Vikings D.

Second off, you know damn straight that I would have been 'mauled' if I came on here complaining about ref calls and bad bounces, and how the one 'tripping' penalty caused a 14 point swing that could have effected the outcome of the game, and how Favre's INT was in no way his fault because it hit Chester RIGHT IN THE DAMN HANDS. It would have been turned around into how much I sniffed Brett's jock and how he could do no wrong that game.

Maybe not by you, or by even the majority.. But there would have been people here that would have eaten that crap up. Bottom line, the Vikings played a fairly good game, and the Stillers played a notch better.


Wait wait... do Vikings fans really think that tripping call was a bad call? It was a bad play at a very inopportune time, I will give them that. But if that's not a trip, I'm not sure what is.


Yes, it was a bad call. He left the ground (thus eliminating a possibility for him to purposefully attempt to 'trip' the defender), which I agree with Pack93z isn't the best way to block, but it wasn't a trip.. I've seen multiple backs make that type of block, and never have I seen a flag for 'tripping'. You claiming it a trip is seeing it through green goggles.


I didn't see the play in question so my opinion isn't worth much on this however the definition of tripping in the NFL is "Using a leg or foot to trip another player." If indeed the player did use his leg or foot to trip another player regardless of the situation than it can be called a trip. Like I said I didn't see the play so I could even be aiding Formo's argument.

Secondly, even if it is a bad call you have to roll with them. The Packers had a terrible call in the Bears game on Al Harris when in fact there should have been a penalty called on the Bears instead of on the Pack. I'm not trying to say "we're even" or anything of that sort--just that these sorts of calls happen.

Also I'd like to point out that just because the ref may have nerfed a touchdown with a bogus call doesn't mean he gave the ball to the Steelers. Favre did that on his own 3 plays later.

Quote:
Three plays later, Brett Favre was sacked, and LaMarr Woodley returned a fumble 77 yards for a touchdown, resulting in a 14-point swing.


You also got a kickoff return TD right after the fumble return by the Steelers so I don't think you can put too much blame on that one call (even though it seems the rest of the world agrees it was bad).


I'm aware of dealing with bad calls, hense why I didn't throw a huge fit about it. Like I said, bottom line, the Vikes didn't play as hard as the Stillers.

To make a minor correction, Favre wouldn't have 'given' the ball to the Stillers if that was the right call, because it was a TD that was called back. Yeah, sure, Harvin scored on the ensuing kick off after that fumble (which, BTW, I would have loved to see that play again, I swore I saw atleast one hold on the return.. but again, I'd have to see it again..) but it still was a 14 point swing. Harvin wouldn't have needed to return that kickoff.

Looking at the tripping call again, it looks like the Vikings player, Dugan, dove for the block while turning his body so his back was towards the Steeler (apparently called a 'rolling block').. The initial contact was at or around the lower back area, but the defensive player used a swim/jumping move to maneuver around/over Dugan, and ended up eating turf while diving over Dugan's lower body. My point was Dugan made his dive-block before the defensive player made his move, thus how could he trip the guy? That's all.

Here's the YouTube video.. at the 29 second mark is the beginning of the good replay angle.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#124 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2009 11:12:16 PM(UTC)
Rank: Premier Member

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[align=center][size=28]THE
VIKINGS
LOST
GET
OVER
IT
[/size][/align] :horse: :horse: :horse:
[align=center] :danceme: :danceme: :danceme: [/align]
[align=right] :onfloor: :onfloor: :onfloor:[/align]
Offline Formo  
#125 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2009 11:13:06 PM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

Joined: 8/12/2008(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
[align=center][size=28]THE
VIKINGS
LOST
GET
OVER
IT
[/size][/align] :horse: :horse: :horse:
[align=center] :danceme: :danceme: :danceme: [/align]
[align=right] :onfloor: :onfloor: :onfloor:[/align]


Been over it, you troll.. =P

Ready for another beat down next Sunday?
Offline Zero2Cool  
#126 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2009 11:16:10 PM(UTC)
Rank: Premier Member

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No.
Offline porky88  
#127 Posted : Monday, October 26, 2009 11:22:27 PM(UTC)
Rank: Veteran Member

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" said: Go to Quoted Post
BTW.. it is funny no one was saying Favre was holding the ball to long in the pocket.. that fumble was a 5 count. ;)


" said: Go to Quoted Post
He did hold the ball too long on the fumble though. Wait he does that? A little karma maybe :)


:thumbright:
Offline djcubez  
#128 Posted : Tuesday, October 27, 2009 1:05:39 AM(UTC)
Rank: Senior Member

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Hate to say it Formo but I can see why that was called. He did throw the backside of his legs at him and Harrison was coming on an all out blitz. I can see how he was trying to throw a cut block though but technically his legs tripped Harrison. Either way it's a big call to make.

Also I wonder if Dugan will be fined. If you watch the ensuing kickoff return by Harvin he absolutely crushes a referee.
Offline Formo  
#129 Posted : Tuesday, October 27, 2009 1:15:21 AM(UTC)
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" said: Go to Quoted Post
Hate to say it Formo but I can see why that was called. He did throw the backside of his legs at him and Harrison was coming on an all out blitz. I can see how he was trying to throw a cut block though but technically his legs tripped Harrison. Either way it's a big call to make.


It could have been seen as a trip, but no way it's a legal trip. Initial contact was with Dugan's lower back/ass, and the defender dives over his legs/ass.

" said: Go to Quoted Post
Also I wonder if Dugan will be fined. If you watch the ensuing kickoff return by Harvin he absolutely crushes a referee.


I was actually waiting for a penalty on that one.. it looked like Dugan had zero intention of moving out of the way. My wife watched that part of the game with me, and even though she doesn't know what the line of scrimage is, she was yelling at the ref to move before Harvin got to him, much less Dugan. Was pretty funny.

I'd be expecting a fine if I were Dugan. Can't blame him, though.. I probably would have done worse after that call.
Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#130 Posted : Tuesday, October 27, 2009 1:40:49 AM(UTC)
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He extended his arms in a clear show of intent before hitting the ref. He absolutely deserves a fine. I do think the ref Hollywooded a little after the hit, though.
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