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Offline dd80forever  
#166 Posted : Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:58:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Again you might see a leg "whip" but it's hard to execute a "whipping" motion as your in the air falling to the ground. If he was already laying on the ground, and "whipped" then 100% it's a penalty. When you are falling to the ground and your legs are wailing around I can't see that as being a trip.


Did he swing his legs at the defender? Yes. Did his legs create a whipping effect? Yes. Should it be a penalty? Yes.

He got called for tripping.. IMO, it was the incorrect but lighter call for a piss poor block attempt in which he whiffed and did the only thing he could do because he left his feet.. take him out with his legs regardless if Harrison was airborne or planted on the ground.

Rules.. you most certainly can't use your legs to trip or force a player to the ground.. again would he have done a ton of damage without a plant leg.. probably not.. but you can't allow it because he sold out on the cut and missed.

Again.. find me other consistent evidence of it being let go?

Edit.. NFL rule book.. since your asking..

Quote:
15 yard Personal Foul - Leg Whip:

"striking an opponent anywhere above the knee with the foot or any part of the leg below the knee with a whipping motion"



And I see no "whipping" motion whatsoever. It is a tangle of 2 players feet.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#167 Posted : Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:31:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Just thought of something. And I will be called a Vikings apologist but I don't care. I am the furthest thing from that.

What would you say if a Bears fan said , "The Packers were lucky. If it wasn't for a blown coverage on Jennings we would have won the opener."

That would be pretty weak wouldn't it?

The bottom line is every play counts. I don't do the excuse game, that includes blaming the officials. The officials make bad calls on both sides.

Anyway, that's my rant. I just hate it when fellow Packers fans play the excuse game, when they would rip Vikings fans for doing the exact same thing. Practice what you preach.


I missed this one. Well written, IronMan.
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Offline longtimefan  
#168 Posted : Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:38:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Again you might see a leg "whip" but it's hard to execute a "whipping" motion as your in the air falling to the ground. If he was already laying on the ground, and "whipped" then 100% it's a penalty. When you are falling to the ground and your legs are wailing around I can't see that as being a trip.


Did he swing his legs at the defender? Yes. Did his legs create a whipping effect? Yes. Should it be a penalty? Yes.

He got called for tripping.. IMO, it was the incorrect but lighter call for a piss poor block attempt in which he whiffed and did the only thing he could do because he left his feet.. take him out with his legs regardless if Harrison was airborne or planted on the ground.

Rules.. you most certainly can't use your legs to trip or force a player to the ground.. again would he have done a ton of damage without a plant leg.. probably not.. but you can't allow it because he sold out on the cut and missed.

Again.. find me other consistent evidence of it being let go?

Edit.. NFL rule book.. since your asking..

Quote:
15 yard Personal Foul - Leg Whip:

"striking an opponent anywhere above the knee with the foot or any part of the leg below the knee with a whipping motion"



And I see no "whipping" motion whatsoever. It is a tangle of 2 players feet.


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Offline porky88  
#169 Posted : Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:21:03 AM(UTC)
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What did Mike Pereira say about the play?

He has been fairly honest from what I've seen and I would take what he has to say pretty seriously about the play.
Offline djcubez  
#170 Posted : Thursday, October 29, 2009 2:47:34 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Again you might see a leg "whip" but it's hard to execute a "whipping" motion as your in the air falling to the ground. If he was already laying on the ground, and "whipped" then 100% it's a penalty. When you are falling to the ground and your legs are wailing around I can't see that as being a trip.


Did he swing his legs at the defender? Yes. Did his legs create a whipping effect? Yes. Should it be a penalty? Yes.

He got called for tripping.. IMO, it was the incorrect but lighter call for a piss poor block attempt in which he whiffed and did the only thing he could do because he left his feet.. take him out with his legs regardless if Harrison was airborne or planted on the ground.

Rules.. you most certainly can't use your legs to trip or force a player to the ground.. again would he have done a ton of damage without a plant leg.. probably not.. but you can't allow it because he sold out on the cut and missed.

Again.. find me other consistent evidence of it being let go?

Edit.. NFL rule book.. since your asking..

Quote:
15 yard Personal Foul - Leg Whip:

"striking an opponent anywhere above the knee with the foot or any part of the leg below the knee with a whipping motion"



And I see no "whipping" motion whatsoever. It is a tangle of 2 players feet.


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From that picture it's clearly a trip despite the fact that it's obvious he's attempting a cut-block. He took him out with his legs, a tripping penalty. A cut block properly executed involves your upper body against the opponent players lower body. Dugan clearly rotated and put the backside of his legs against James Harrison's which is technically a trip. At least from that picture.
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Offline Nonstopdrivel  
#171 Posted : Thursday, October 29, 2009 3:04:41 AM(UTC)
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Here is how the NFL Rulebook defines the penalty: "Tripping is the use of the leg or foot in obstructing any opponent (including a runner)."

It says nothing about intent, body position, what part of the leg, or in what kind of play it occurs. If the opponent's forward progress is obstructed by one's leg, it's tripping. By that standard (that is, by the letter of the law), it was a good call, because at least one part of his leg did indeed touch the defender.
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Offline djcubez  
#172 Posted : Thursday, October 29, 2009 3:12:25 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Here is how the NFL Rulebook defines the penalty: "Tripping is the use of the leg or foot in obstructing any opponent (including a runner)."

It says nothing about intent, body position, what part of the leg, or in what kind of play it occurs. If the opponent's forward progress is obstructed by one's leg, it's tripping. By that standard (that is, by the letter of the law), it was a good call, because at least one part of his leg did indeed touch the defender.

Exactly. You don't do a cut block by throwing yourself backwards leg-first at an opponent--you're just asking for some kind of penalty.
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Offline wpr  
#173 Posted : Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:33:58 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Here is how the NFL Rulebook defines the penalty: "Tripping is the use of the leg or foot in obstructing any opponent (including a runner)."

It says nothing about intent, body position, what part of the leg, or in what kind of play it occurs. If the opponent's forward progress is obstructed by one's leg, it's tripping. By that standard (that is, by the letter of the law), it was a good call, because at least one part of his leg did indeed touch the defender.

Exactly. You don't do a cut block by throwing yourself backwards leg-first at an opponent--you're just asking for some kind of penalty.


Agreed. If you never saw the play and only the photo a person could say it looks like he is falling to the ground and his right leg hasn't gotten there yet. And in the words of the announcer "their legs just got tangled up". But when you watch the whole replay you can see that as he falls, he is falling on his right side with his LEFT leg held up. He hit the ground and had not brought down the defender so he spun over to his left side holding his RIGHT leg in the air in the process. That clearly indicates his attempt to his leg to obstruct the Pitt defender.
The announcer was wrong. Imagine that. The only ones who get blast more than the officials during a game are the guys in the booth. And yet the Viking fans have been faithfully quoting them all week long.
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Offline Formo  
#174 Posted : Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:16:10 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Here is how the NFL Rulebook defines the penalty: "Tripping is the use of the leg or foot in obstructing any opponent (including a runner)."

It says nothing about intent, body position, what part of the leg, or in what kind of play it occurs. If the opponent's forward progress is obstructed by one's leg, it's tripping. By that standard (that is, by the letter of the law), it was a good call, because at least one part of his leg did indeed touch the defender.


Yes.

But the initial CONTACT was with his ass/lower back. The defender made a move that caused him to go over the blockers legs. No, the rule doesn't state anything about intent.. But I wonder how many times a defender trips over a leg of an OL or blocker and it doesn't get called.

Again, I can see how that could have been seen in real time as a trip. But watching the replay, I don't see it. And obviously neither do the objective announcers.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#175 Posted : Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:21:29 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
And obviously neither do the objective announcers.
When they share the same opinion as you, their objective.
When their opinion differs from yours, well, then they are "just" announcers after all and they know nothing.

It's Thursday. The Vikings won't be so lucky come Sunday. You should really be worrying about the upcoming game and not some accurate call last week. Hopefully your team shares the same lack of focus you do. :) (hopefully)

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Offline Formo  
#176 Posted : Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:23:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
And obviously neither do the objective announcers.
When they share the same opinion as you, their objective.
When their opinion differs from yours, well, then they are "just" announcers after all and they know nothing.

It's Thursday. The Vikings won't be so lucky come Sunday. You should really be worrying about the upcoming game and not some accurate call last week. Hopefully your team shares the same lack of focus you do. :) (hopefully)


That announcer comment was a jab at WPR's announcer comment. =)
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Offline wpr  
#177 Posted : Thursday, October 29, 2009 5:24:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
And obviously neither do the objective announcers.
When they share the same opinion as you, their objective.
When their opinion differs from yours, well, then they are "just" announcers after all and they know nothing.

It's Thursday. The Vikings won't be so lucky come Sunday. You should really be worrying about the upcoming game and not some accurate call last week. Hopefully your team shares the same lack of focus you do. :) (hopefully)


That announcer comment was a jab at WPR's announcer comment. =)


It don't matter to me. I was simply saying that sporting fans routinely b!tch and moan about the announcers for every kind of sport. This past week Viking fans kept pointing to the comment made by the color dude as if he could do no wrong simply because it supports their position. Well he was wrong. I don't know who it was but what position did he play in the NFL? If he was an offensive lineman don't you think he would say that there was no foul? If he had been a DL I bet he would have gone on and on about how dangerous tripping can be. If the crew were CBS announcers I bet they would have been more supportive of the call as well.

And as to the comment you made about other guys leg whipping and not getting called, so what. The refs are wrong when they ignore it. You know the old saying that there is a holding penalty on every play. It doesn't mean they have to call every single one.
If he would have tried to catch him with the left leg and let it go at that he may well not have been called. But when he flipped and stuck that right leg up there too he was just asking for it.
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Offline Formo  
#178 Posted : Thursday, October 29, 2009 5:31:15 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
And obviously neither do the objective announcers.
When they share the same opinion as you, their objective.
When their opinion differs from yours, well, then they are "just" announcers after all and they know nothing.

It's Thursday. The Vikings won't be so lucky come Sunday. You should really be worrying about the upcoming game and not some accurate call last week. Hopefully your team shares the same lack of focus you do. :) (hopefully)


That announcer comment was a jab at WPR's announcer comment. =)


It don't matter to me. I was simply saying that sporting fans routinely b!tch and moan about the announcers for every kind of sport. This past week Viking fans kept pointing to the comment made by the color dude as if he could do no wrong simply because it supports their position. Well he was wrong. I don't know who it was but what position did he play in the NFL? If he was an offensive lineman don't you think he would say that there was no foul? If he had been a DL I bet he would have gone on and on about how dangerous tripping can be. If the crew were CBS announcers I bet they would have been more supportive of the call as well.

And as to the comment you made about other guys leg whipping and not getting called, so what. The refs are wrong when they ignore it. You know the old saying that there is a holding penalty on every play. It doesn't mean they have to call every single one.
If he would have tried to catch him with the left leg and let it go at that he may well not have been called. But when he flipped and stuck that right leg up there too he was just asking for it.


I still don't see what you said he 'missed' his block thus his leg being kicked out for the trip. He made contact before his legs even touched the defender. That's my arguement.
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Offline wpr  
#179 Posted : Thursday, October 29, 2009 5:40:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
And obviously neither do the objective announcers.
When they share the same opinion as you, their objective.
When their opinion differs from yours, well, then they are "just" announcers after all and they know nothing.

It's Thursday. The Vikings won't be so lucky come Sunday. You should really be worrying about the upcoming game and not some accurate call last week. Hopefully your team shares the same lack of focus you do. :) (hopefully)


That announcer comment was a jab at WPR's announcer comment. =)


It don't matter to me. I was simply saying that sporting fans routinely b!tch and moan about the announcers for every kind of sport. This past week Viking fans kept pointing to the comment made by the color dude as if he could do no wrong simply because it supports their position. Well he was wrong. I don't know who it was but what position did he play in the NFL? If he was an offensive lineman don't you think he would say that there was no foul? If he had been a DL I bet he would have gone on and on about how dangerous tripping can be. If the crew were CBS announcers I bet they would have been more supportive of the call as well.

And as to the comment you made about other guys leg whipping and not getting called, so what. The refs are wrong when they ignore it. You know the old saying that there is a holding penalty on every play. It doesn't mean they have to call every single one.
If he would have tried to catch him with the left leg and let it go at that he may well not have been called. But when he flipped and stuck that right leg up there too he was just asking for it.


I still don't see what you said he 'missed' his block thus his leg being kicked out for the trip. He made contact before his legs even touched the defender. That's my arguement.


It doesn't matter if he touched him with his upper body 1st, second, third or not at all. He still stuck both legs into the air to try and trip up the defender.
We can look at the same video and same still shots and we will never see the same thing. That's fine with me. I am very comfortable with the thought that the ref made the correct call even if other players do the same thing and don't get called for it. I am fine with the idea that it was the correct call even if the color commentator didn't think so. I am fine with the call even if Mike Pereira says it was a poor call.
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Offline Formo  
#180 Posted : Thursday, October 29, 2009 5:45:40 PM(UTC)
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Lord forbid any blocker falls down and a defender trips over said blocker.

Would be piss poor calls on that, too.
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