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Offline Cheesey  
#16 Posted : Monday, August 25, 2008 3:24:30 PM(UTC)
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Good analysis Nodak!
I believe Grant is the real deal, so i think we will be as good as we were last year against the Vikings.......IF our O line can do it's job that is.

I also think T-Jack will be better then he was last year as your QB.
I think our special teams will be HUGE in this game though. I think it will give us a short field most of the time, and even get a return for a TD.
I think it will be close, until the 4th quarter, where the Packers run away with it.
I think we will win by 14.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#17 Posted : Monday, August 25, 2008 3:27:28 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I agree with most of the original post but think it overstates the pass protection problems for the Packers. I think the pass protection will be fine and that Rodgers deserves a lot of the blame for holding the ball too long. He improved on that last week.

You can tell the performance of the Packers offense so far this year just by looking at Rodgers' feet and how long he holds the ball.


Disagree. Yeah, some of the sacks were because he held the ball too long, but a few some defenders came in untouched, and that scares me. It especially scares me because the Vikes DL is sick. We're going to have to have some good blocking by our RBs.
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Offline NodakPaul  
#18 Posted : Monday, August 25, 2008 3:46:31 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
I like Adrian Peterson, but I have to say that I am not as worried about the Vikings running game as I am basically any other team. Here are some preseason stats to think about if at least just a little.

In a list of running back rankings, it takes the Vikings all the way to rank number 69 to make an appearance with Albert Young. It is actually technically number 71 since it took more attempts than the two others who share the same rushing yards. Now I know AP hasn't gotten most of the reps, but I consider the blocking to be a major element not just the runner.


In this same ranking GB running backs appear at 51 with Brandon Jackson, 43 with Noah Herron, and 14 with Kregg Lumpkin.

So as far as run blocking goes, I am not sold on the Vikings having an advantage on us. I think you can say similar things about AP as you can say about Grant. AP's productivity starting falling as it seemed people were figuring him out. He has that big play ability but we also saw Grant tear away from the line and go the distance as well.

I also see an almost even slate at quarterback. I actually don't believe much of the negative talk surrounding Tarvaris Jackson going into this season. For his preseason stats, although his attempts are less than other teams, he has been efficient going for 2 touchdowns, no interceptions, and throwing for 11 first downs. I think he will have a good year this year if he keeps up this level of play. He has been smart and effective.

Where I think we go past the Vikings is actually our running game. I think we do better at surprising the Vikings than they do to us. A sort of we know what you guys are up to sort of thing. The Bears had our number in this department last season and it seemed judging by the stats that the Broncos similarly dissected us.

Pass defense with both our starters I also think is to our advantage. Our leaders in the secondary have never shown particularly well in the preseason, but they know when and how to turn it on.

I am going to be boring and say that I consider us even mostly due to the fact that we just seem to know each other so well as teams and we tend to go back and forth every time we play.


You can't look at preseason team stats and use it as a gauge for the regular season. Hell, Albert Young probably won't even make the team this year.

This logic is also flawed because the Vikings have focused primarily on passing during the preseason. In fact, during the first preseason game, they didn't run even once through the entire first quarter and most of the second. Mostly because their passing attack was horrible last year, and that is where they have the most work to do. Peterson has had less that 20 touches all preseason so far - he will most likely get more than that in a single game during the regular season.
"There's the snap, Rodgers with a quick drop - in trouble! AND SACKED BY ALLEN! The ball is lose, the ball is lose, and recovered by Kevin Williams! And that's the ball game! Childress and the Vikings FINALLY beat the Packers!"
--
Offline DarkaneRules  
#19 Posted : Monday, August 25, 2008 3:52:58 PM(UTC)
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I suppose. I mean the Vikings attempts have been pretty balanced though between rushing and passing. I suppose the Packers could just stuff the box then if the passing won't be utilized as much. :)
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Online porky88  
#20 Posted : Monday, August 25, 2008 4:08:40 PM(UTC)
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In the trenches I like the Vikings better but if you look at the Packers spreading the field and going 3, 4, and 5 wide set, Minnesota doesn't match up very well. They don't have the corners and secondary that can go against the Packers passing game.

I guarantee you the Packers aren't going to be stupid and drop back and look for the deep ball. It's going to be a short passing attack. Much like in the first meeting between these two teams.

Two factors I believe aren't talked about enough with the Vikings.

1. Bryant McKinnie. Is he going to be suspended? Last I heard he was but I have to admit I haven't been following it and I dont know if it was made official. If so that is a huge loss for the Vikings.

Aaron Kampman will match up against Ryan Cook on the other side. That alone is a tough task. Minnesotas 2nd string tackle against maybe a KGB or Cullen Jenkins could prove to hurt them. They may have to pay more attention to that combination than they would of liked to have if they had McKinnie in there.

Quite frankly, I like Clifton up against Allen better than Cook against Kampman anyways.

2. Madieu Williams is probably going to be out. Who is starting? Tyrell Johnson. If so the Packers will exploit him. Hes a rookie and even though I like him, hes going to have his hands full back there.

I think the Packers passing attack has a slight edge over the Vikings pass defense. I don't think you cant take the 2nd best passing attack in the league last year versus one of the last in the league at stopping it a year ago and say the team that finished last is going to have an advantage. At the very least we might be looking at a draw pending who is out.

Couple of guys who could miss the game for the Pack and it would be a blow.

1. I think James Jones is a huge loss if the cant go for the Pack because Marcus McCaughly will have an easier time with Ruvell Martin than James Jones.

2. Ryan Pickett is out the Vikings will win the game. Pickett in my opinion is the most underrated player in the division. He doesn't get enough credit he deserves.

I think its very close between these two teams.

Packers passing game > Vikings passing defense
Packers running game &lt; Vikings run defense
Packers pass defense &gt; Vikings pass offense
Packers run defense &lt; Vikings run defense

This game will come down to coaching, discipline, and turnovers.

It can go either way.

I also think the pass protection problems the Packers have won't be as bad as people think. It's like I was saying with short passes.

Minnesota is the type of team you beat with short passes. McCarthy will do that and it will make up for any protection problems. The Vikings may want to blitz the Packers because I think Rodgers has a harder time reading the blitz right now than anything. I'd bring Leber all day.

Also people forget the Packers were 7-1 at home last year. they've beaten Minnesota the last four times. McCarthy hasn't loss versus the Vikings. He has Childress' number right now. The two teams are so close that actually could be a deciding factor.
Offline NodakPaul  
#21 Posted : Monday, August 25, 2008 5:25:19 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
In the trenches I like the Vikings better but if you look at the Packers spreading the field and going 3, 4, and 5 wide set, Minnesota doesn't match up very well. They don't have the corners and secondary that can go against the Packers passing game.

I guarantee you the Packers aren't going to be stupid and drop back and look for the deep ball. It's going to be a short passing attack. Much like in the first meeting between these two teams.

Two factors I believe aren't talked about enough with the Vikings.

1. Bryant McKinnie. Is he going to be suspended? Last I heard he was but I have to admit I haven't been following it and I dont know if it was made official. If so that is a huge loss for the Vikings.

Aaron Kampman will match up against Ryan Cook on the other side. That alone is a tough task. Minnesotas 2nd string tackle against maybe a KGB or Cullen Jenkins could prove to hurt them. They may have to pay more attention to that combination than they would of liked to have if they had McKinnie in there.

Quite frankly, I like Clifton up against Allen better than Cook against Kampman anyways.

2. Madieu Williams is probably going to be out. Who is starting? Tyrell Johnson. If so the Packers will exploit him. Hes a rookie and even though I like him, hes going to have his hands full back there.

I think the Packers passing attack has a slight edge over the Vikings pass defense. I don't think you cant take the 2nd best passing attack in the league last year versus one of the last in the league at stopping it a year ago and say the team that finished last is going to have an advantage. At the very least we might be looking at a draw pending who is out.

Couple of guys who could miss the game for the Pack and it would be a blow.

1. I think James Jones is a huge loss if the cant go for the Pack because Marcus McCaughly will have an easier time with Ruvell Martin than James Jones.

2. Ryan Pickett is out the Vikings will win the game. Pickett in my opinion is the most underrated player in the division. He doesn't get enough credit he deserves.

I think its very close between these two teams.

Packers passing game > Vikings passing defense
Packers running game &lt; Vikings run defense
Packers pass defense &gt; Vikings pass offense
Packers run defense &lt; Vikings run defense

This game will come down to coaching, discipline, and turnovers.

It can go either way.

I also think the pass protection problems the Packers have won't be as bad as people think. It's like I was saying with short passes.

Minnesota is the type of team you beat with short passes. McCarthy will do that and it will make up for any protection problems. The Vikings may want to blitz the Packers because I think Rodgers has a harder time reading the blitz right now than anything. I'd bring Leber all day.

Also people forget the Packers were 7-1 at home last year. they've beaten Minnesota the last four times. McCarthy hasn't loss versus the Vikings. He has Childress' number right now. The two teams are so close that actually could be a deciding factor.


I agree with a lot of your post, and I think we are pretty much on the same page for most of it. I will again mention that if you actually look at all of the stats, not just the yards per game, you will see that the Vikings were not last against the pass. Bottom half - yes. Not last though.

And the Packers have lost a key component to their second ranked passing attack from last year. While I think that Rodgers will be a good QB, I don't think he will be able to put up a very good performance against the Vikings. First start ever, nationally televised game, a quarter of the fans still booing him, going against the best DL in the league, and Fav-re's picture printed on every ticket. Lots of pressure...
"There's the snap, Rodgers with a quick drop - in trouble! AND SACKED BY ALLEN! The ball is lose, the ball is lose, and recovered by Kevin Williams! And that's the ball game! Childress and the Vikings FINALLY beat the Packers!"
--
Offline warhawk  
#22 Posted : Monday, August 25, 2008 5:39:42 PM(UTC)
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I see some valid points and some not so valid points.

The Vikes have a good run defense but lousy pass defense. If anything, good run defense should HELP the pass defense. Anytime a team can force their opponent to be one dimenshioned they should be able to react better than being dead last in that other area.

Secondly, TJack being out like this is not good for a player and a team that struggles in the pass game. Let's face it the guy needs the work. You say his numbers aren't bad thus far but then again he wasn't out there to produce them.

The Vikes have better run blocking but we pass protect better and have a more productive QB.

The Vikes D line is stronger than ours but we are much better behind the line then their guys.

The only way I see us losing this game is if we let AP run loose. Forget what their DL said about Favre. Arod will have a good game and complete just as many throws as Brett would. I think the Vikes have every bit as much to worry about with our receivers and the YAC's they can produce as we do with AP and his ability to break big runs.

If history repeats itself our guys running after the catch against a porous defensive backfield will once again prove to be to much to overcome.
"The train is leaving the station."
Offline gakko  
#23 Posted : Monday, August 25, 2008 6:00:45 PM(UTC)
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no edge on the passing game? Come on, you have tarvaris jackson and who at receiver?
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Offline Cheesey  
#24 Posted : Monday, August 25, 2008 6:12:33 PM(UTC)
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Rodgers being an unknown i think is what Viking fans count on. I think they feel because he is the new starter, he won't be up to the pressure of starting in the NFL.
I think he will be up to it, and produce quite well.
Of course thats just my "homer" opinion.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#25 Posted : Monday, August 25, 2008 7:09:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Forget what their DL said about Favre. Arod will have a good game and complete just as many throws as Brett would.


Wishful thinking.

Hey, I like Aaron too. But Favre played like he had eyes on the back of his head. He knew exactly where the rush was coming from.

Aaron's a solid passer, don't get me wrong. He doesn't have the experience Favre does with a pass rush. MN will attack that. How successful will they be is anyone's guess. I'm hoping Wells is 100% by game 1, so Spitz can play G.
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Offline NodakPaul  
#26 Posted : Monday, August 25, 2008 7:13:44 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
no edge on the passing game? Come on, you have tarvaris jackson and who at receiver?


I didn't look at the Packers passing offense versus the Vikings passing offense. Why would I? Those two units are never on the field at the same time.

When I look at the Vikings passing DEFENSE versus the Packers passing OFFENSE, I call it a tie. When I look at the Vikings passing OFFENSE against the Packers passing DEFENSE, I gave the advantage to the Packers.
"There's the snap, Rodgers with a quick drop - in trouble! AND SACKED BY ALLEN! The ball is lose, the ball is lose, and recovered by Kevin Williams! And that's the ball game! Childress and the Vikings FINALLY beat the Packers!"
--
Offline Zero2Cool  
#27 Posted : Monday, August 25, 2008 7:24:35 PM(UTC)
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You can give all the edges to the Vikings you want, but no matter what, they ain't walking out of Lambeau without a goose egg in the W column. :)
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Offline NodakPaul  
#28 Posted : Monday, August 25, 2008 7:28:45 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
You can give all the edges to the Vikings you want, but no matter what, they ain't walking out of Lambeau without a goose egg in the W column. :)


We shall see.... ;)
"There's the snap, Rodgers with a quick drop - in trouble! AND SACKED BY ALLEN! The ball is lose, the ball is lose, and recovered by Kevin Williams! And that's the ball game! Childress and the Vikings FINALLY beat the Packers!"
--
Offline TengoJuego  
#29 Posted : Monday, August 25, 2008 10:41:00 PM(UTC)
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Ugh...I hate giving the Viqueens any kind words(my most hated NFL team). Although I have very High respect for a guy like AP, I don't see them beating us. I don't see their passing game having any kind of success, and it will all rest on, can our D-line stop the run and play well enough to hold off the duo? Will our Offense produce and not rely on the defense to keep it close?

I think so, I think A-rod will surprise. Call me crazy, you may think he will struggle and he just wont be prolific, I think hes ready to be our QB and leader.
Offline warhawk  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, August 26, 2008 11:19:44 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: " Go to Quoted Post
no edge on the passing game? Come on, you have tarvaris jackson and who at receiver?


I didn't look at the Packers passing offense versus the Vikings passing offense. Why would I? Those two units are never on the field at the same time.

When I look at the Vikings passing DEFENSE versus the Packers passing OFFENSE, I call it a tie. When I look at the Vikings passing OFFENSE against the Packers passing DEFENSE, I gave the advantage to the Packers.


And what basis can you possibly use to support this? You pass defense has been one of the worst in the league and our pass offense one of the best. If, in fact, this catagory was even close to a tie it would be us losing 34-0 instead of you guys.

You guys have plenty of strengths but pass defense ain't one of 'em and until they prove that not to be true it is what it is. The facts are your DB's do not match up well with our catch and run receivers so I cannot see how in the world you can call this a draw.

The bottom line is if AP breaks loose for big gains we probably lose the game and there is certainly reason to be concerned (for us) that this could happen but our passing offense is going to get the better of the Vikes pass "D".
"The train is leaving the station."
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