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MassPackersFan  
#61 Posted : Wednesday, March 14, 2012 7:44:49 PM(UTC)
I figured we wouldn't get into the mix during the first few days of FA, but I was hopeful for a decent 2nd tier S, OLB, or CB pickup.

Now I'm concerned about C. If we let Wells go, we're in serious trouble there. Shoring up the defensive positions is important, but we'll take a major step back on offense if we let Wells go and don't find a suitable replacement.
porky88  
#62 Posted : Wednesday, March 14, 2012 8:19:13 PM(UTC)
Stevetarded said: Go to Quoted Post
The problem with all of your "holes" on the team is that you are assuming none of the young players are going to improve and possibly fill those holes. The whole point of the way this team drafts is so they can get guys that eventually can become quality players even if they don't look so hot starting out. Teams like the Packers, Steelers and Giants don't typically make big moves in FA because they expect their homegrown talent to step up and fill in the holes. It doesn't always work no but nothing always works. I wouldn't say you could really argue with the track record of success those 3 teams have had though.

The Packers took a big hit last season because of the lack of progression with their younger guys. This probably was a result of the lack of off-season. Clay Matthews and B.J. Raji both significantly improved in 2010. Raji regressed last year. Morgan Burnett also took a major hit because of the lack of off-season.

There are some quality free agents on the market. I would’ve loved Jarret Johnson and the Mile Tolbert stuff intrigues me, but I generally enjoy the Packers' cautious approach. Some of these contracts are ludicrous, especially at receiver.
shield4life  
#63 Posted : Wednesday, March 14, 2012 11:29:36 PM(UTC)
porky88 said: Go to Quoted Post
The Packers took a big hit last season because of the lack of progression with their younger guys. This probably was a result of the lack of off-season. Clay Matthews and B.J. Raji both significantly improved in 2010. Raji regressed last year. Morgan Burnett also took a major hit because of the lack of off-season.

There are some quality free agents on the market. I would’ve loved Jarret Johnson and the Mile Tolbert stuff intrigues me, but I generally enjoy the Packers' cautious approach. Some of these contracts are ludicrous, especially at receiver.


I disagree with your statement if you think Raji regressed then you must also think that Matthews regressed as well. All tho, I don't think they regressed ... everyone keeps forgetting that this defense lost 2 crucial players last year. Jenkins was the first one we lost in the off-season, which he was a great against the pass and the rush. With Jenkins leaving not only did this hurt Raji's year but Matthews as well.

Last year we had the number 1 rush that's because Jenkins + Raji + Matthews we're unstoppable. You double team Matthews & Raji ... they still had Jenkins to deal with. You double team Jenkins & Raji you still had Matthews left to deal with.

Not only we lost our number 1 defensive line pass rush but lost our number 1 pro bowl safety! So imagine losing your number 1 pass rush on the defensive line and your pro bowl safety that reads plays and stops the pass ... what did you expect. We all knew Neal wouldn't provide half the effort Jenkins would of put in.

Now for the people that are blaming Ted Thompson for the loss of Jenkins ... The reason Jenkins was let go was not a question of if his old / health / play ... it was more of saving cap room for the future stars like Finley ... upcoming free agents like Raji Matthews ... GJ will be asking more $$$ so will AR.

By signing FA's you take the risk of losing your own young players. I rather build threw the draft, keep the chemistry in the team and keep our stars in town as long as possible.
lolleren  
#64 Posted : Thursday, March 15, 2012 3:36:55 AM(UTC)
I think the suspension of Neal should make us take a look at a guy like Kendall Langford and what his contract demands are.
I dont know much about him, but he looks the type and the age is right.
porky88  
#65 Posted : Thursday, March 15, 2012 3:56:34 PM(UTC)
shield4life said: Go to Quoted Post
I disagree with your statement if you think Raji regressed then you must also think that Matthews regressed as well. All tho, I don't think they regressed ... everyone keeps forgetting that this defense lost 2 crucial players last year. Jenkins was the first one we lost in the off-season, which he was a great against the pass and the rush. With Jenkins leaving not only did this hurt Raji's year but Matthews as well.

Last year we had the number 1 rush that's because Jenkins + Raji + Matthews we're unstoppable. You double team Matthews & Raji ... they still had Jenkins to deal with. You double team Jenkins & Raji you still had Matthews left to deal with.

Not only we lost our number 1 defensive line pass rush but lost our number 1 pro bowl safety! So imagine losing your number 1 pass rush on the defensive line and your pro bowl safety that reads plays and stops the pass ... what did you expect. We all knew Neal wouldn't provide half the effort Jenkins would of put in.

Now for the people that are blaming Ted Thompson for the loss of Jenkins ... The reason Jenkins was let go was not a question of if his old / health / play ... it was more of saving cap room for the future stars like Finley ... upcoming free agents like Raji Matthews ... GJ will be asking more $$$ so will AR.

By signing FA's you take the risk of losing your own young players. I rather build threw the draft, keep the chemistry in the team and keep our stars in town as long as possible.

I'm not judging just the sack numbers. I'm judging Raji's overall play. I saw little to no impact in his game. He didn't play the run well, either. Raji was an impact player in 2010. He made an impact against the run and rushing the passer. He didn’t do either last season. Clay Matthews still made an impact. It didn’t show on the stat card, but he was all over the field again this season. He didn’t finish as much, which is one of the reasons why his sack numbers were down, but he still pressured QBs. Raji didn’t and defensive lineman should improve in year No. 3. Frankly, I would blame the lack of an off-season more for Raji’s regression than the departure of any particular player.

Also, you can blame Cullen Jenkins’ departure for only so much. At the end of the day, if Raji needs Jenkins on the field to play at an all-pro level, then it might be time to re-evaluate his overall ability. I did not see an impact player in 2011. I saw an impact player in 2010 with or without Jenkins in the lineup.
Dexter_Sinister  
#66 Posted : Thursday, March 15, 2012 6:59:54 PM(UTC)
porky88 said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm not judging just the sack numbers. I'm judging Raji's overall play. I saw little to no impact in his game. He didn't play the run well, either. Raji was an impact player in 2010. He made an impact against the run and rushing the passer. He didn’t do either last season. Clay Matthews still made an impact. It didn’t show on the stat card, but he was all over the field again this season. He didn’t finish as much, which is one of the reasons why his sack numbers were down, but he still pressured QBs. Raji didn’t and defensive lineman should improve in year No. 3. Frankly, I would blame the lack of an off-season more for Raji’s regression than the departure of any particular player.

Also, you can blame Cullen Jenkins’ departure for only so much. At the end of the day, if Raji needs Jenkins on the field to play at an all-pro level, then it might be time to re-evaluate his overall ability. I did not see an impact player in 2011. I saw an impact player in 2010 with or without Jenkins in the lineup.


You should also judge Raji by the fact that Capers called a contain type of front more often than a pin your ears back. So Raji was doing what was called. It wasn't as much of a performance drop off as a playing a different style of game.

Matthews also had his best year last year. His pressure, coverage and run support were fantastic. Pressure causes picks. Much more impact than a mere sack.

Where I though we missed Jenkins the most was in defending the screens.
nerdmann  
#67 Posted : Thursday, March 15, 2012 7:08:36 PM(UTC)
Dexter_Sinister said: Go to Quoted Post
You should also judge Raji by the fact that Capers called a contain type of front more often than a pin your ears back. So Raji was doing what was called. It wasn't as much of a performance drop off as a playing a different style of game.

Matthews also had his best year last year. His pressure, coverage and run support were fantastic. Pressure causes picks. Much more impact than a mere sack.

Where I though we missed Jenkins the most was in defending the screens.


Raji was spending alot of time out of position at DE last year, plus he never got a play off and as a result may have been wearing down a bit.
porky88  
#68 Posted : Thursday, March 15, 2012 8:00:28 PM(UTC)
Dexter_Sinister said: Go to Quoted Post
You should also judge Raji by the fact that Capers called a contain type of front more often than a pin your ears back. So Raji was doing what was called. It wasn't as much of a performance drop off as a playing a different style of game.

Matthews also had his best year last year. His pressure, coverage and run support were fantastic. Pressure causes picks. Much more impact than a mere sack.

Where I though we missed Jenkins the most was in defending the screens.

I am with you on Matthews, though teams ran away from him because the Packers were so bad opposite of him. I still worry about his run defense. He certainly has the ability, but he’s a very aggressive player.

Like all players, Raji receives a grade on every single play. You get either a positive grade or a negative grade. This is hardly anything new to football. Coaches and scouts have been doing this for years to evaluate talent. Raji received far more positives than negatives in '10. Frankly, I thought he had an all-pro year. Last year, he received more negatives than positives. That is simply unacceptable. I know it sounds like I'm picking on Raji. I'm not. He's not the only player in that boat, but he stands out simply because year three is normally a very important year for defensive lineman. That's why I think (hope) it was the off-season.
zombieslayer  
#69 Posted : Thursday, March 15, 2012 8:33:59 PM(UTC)
Where we missed Jenkins most was QB pressure. With him gone, Raji regressed because OLs focused on Raji and pretty much did away with him last year. When he got the Pro Bowl nod, I was thinking it was a bad call.

Because of the lack of pressure, opposing QBs took apart our secondary. They looked considerably worse because the opposing QB had more time. You can bring up missed tackles but let's be very clear - when a runner is in his stride, he's way more difficult to tackle than when he's not. Opposing QBs were able to hit receivers in their stride and make our secondary look like a joke.

It all starts from up front.

You gotta put the opposing QB on his back. It really is that simple.

Yes, I get it. Jenkins had a history of health problems. Mike McCarthy talked about accountability and availability. Jenkins had the former but not the latter. I get that. But the problem is, nobody stepped up to replace him.

And thus, one and done in the Playoffs.

Jenkins needs to be replaced. That needs to be Ted Thompson's biggest priority. I'm very sure Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy agree with me. The problem of course is finding Jenkins' replacement. Easier said than done.
nerdmann  
#70 Posted : Thursday, March 15, 2012 10:34:34 PM(UTC)
To me, the biggest problem is that asshole Johnny Jolly. Remember when Ted was going to have to decide whether to keep Jenkins or Jolly? Jolly was younger and much more durable. Wouldn't he be still under contract too? C'est la vie.
Since69  
#71 Posted : Friday, March 16, 2012 7:37:16 AM(UTC)
lolleren said: Go to Quoted Post
I think the suspension of Neal should make us take a look at a guy like Kendall Langford and what his contract demands are.
I dont know much about him, but he looks the type and the age is right.


The Packers were supposedly interested in him, but I don't think there's any plans on bringing him in...

Anybody got any dirt on Mark Anderson (DE, Pats)? He a bit of a tweener, but he sounds like he might be a fit opposite Matthews.
DakotaT  
#72 Posted : Friday, March 16, 2012 10:12:46 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
To me, the biggest problem is that asshole Johnny Jolly. Remember when Ted was going to have to decide whether to keep Jenkins or Jolly? Jolly was younger and much more durable. Wouldn't he be still under contract too? C'est la vie.



Jolly is an adict that needed help from the Packers - not sent home to the ghettos of Houston to deal with his problems. I'm disappoint in him but I won't ever beat him up again. Hope he rehabilitates in prison, but I doubt it.
Rios39  
#73 Posted : Friday, March 16, 2012 10:13:52 AM(UTC)
Teds going to have to get off his horse and do something. If you aren't getting better you are getting worse. We have a hole and I think you gotta be aggressive get some DL in for meetings and make a solid attempt. We should be looking at every DL prospect and be looking to upgrade. You can't fix all your holes in the draft. At this stage of our franchise we should be signing some veterans to fill a few holes and then bank on the draft to bring your "stars"
Pack93z  
#74 Posted : Friday, March 16, 2012 10:19:15 AM(UTC)
DakotaT said: Go to Quoted Post
Jolly is an adict that needed help from the Packers - not sent home to the ghettos of Houston to deal with his problems. I'm disappoint in him but I won't ever beat him up again. Hope he rehabilitates in prison, but I doubt it.


Agreed.. that is the flaw of the NFL system today. Suspend them from games fine.. but do not cut them out of the functions and stability of the team and teammates.
Zero2Cool  
#75 Posted : Friday, March 16, 2012 10:24:24 AM(UTC)
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
Agreed.. that is the flaw of the NFL system today. Suspend them from games fine.. but do not cut them out of the functions and stability of the team and teammates.


But when a QB named Aaron Rodgers says something similar, he's ... wrong. Lets Box!
Packers_Finland  
#76 Posted : Friday, March 16, 2012 10:30:10 AM(UTC)
Now that Kamerion Wimbley is officially avaivable (although La Canfora broke the decision to cut him days ago), we should break the bank for this guy. Cut Clifton, and hand out as much money as he wants.

Matthews & Wimbley would be more dangerous than Peppers and Mario would've been.
Pack93z  
#77 Posted : Friday, March 16, 2012 10:40:17 AM(UTC)
I don't think this is the year to spend big in FA.. I would not oppose a couple of smart thrifty signings that provide value and could plug some holes, but with the money thrown around at WR and sooner or later the Rodgers bill will need to be redone, we just don't have the logical space to throw around.

When Woodson comes off the books.. it will free up needed space, but that cat isn't close to done yet.



Code:
[b]  	Base Salary 	S. Bonus 	Misc. Bonus 	Cap Hit[/b]
2010 	5,000,000 	- 	              - 	5,000,000
2011 	7,850,000 	- 	      2,050,000 	9,900,000
2012 	6,500,000 	- 	      4,000,000 	10,500,000
2013 	6,500,000 	- 	              - 	-
2014 	6,500,000 	- 	              - 	-


We have solid depth, young upcoming talent in many areas and we have a few of need.. I just don't see the type of FA out there that fills that need and fits within this cap structure. Maybe Kamerion Wimbley.. but that price tag is going to be steep.

Find the Mark Anderson/Andre Carter type of edge player, and mix them into the pass rush competition on the opposite edge of Matthews. Finding the pass rush from the downs is much tougher, and honestly, even a Langford type probably doesn't solve that by himself. IMO, we need to find a mix of players that can rotate in there and fill the position.

Couple that with more aggressiveness from Capers (him having confidence in them getting home) in the pass rush.. and I think we may provide that balance between pressure and coverage we had in 2010.. we are not built to be a stout stingy defense, we haven't invested the horses on that side of the ball to the extent needed. But we can return to being the opportunistic defense that creates havoc and gives the ball back and a very explosive offense.

That is our formula as the team is constructed.. in my eyes anyway.

cheeseheads123  
#78 Posted : Friday, March 16, 2012 10:47:05 AM(UTC)
Packers_Finland said: Go to Quoted Post
Now that Kamerion Wimbley is officially avaivable (although La Canfora broke the decision to cut him days ago), we should break the bank for this guy. Cut Clifton, and hand out as much money as he wants.

Matthews & Wimbley would be more dangerous than Peppers and Mario would've been.


I think Wimbley would be a very nice fit next to Matthews.
cheeseheads123  
#79 Posted : Friday, March 16, 2012 12:13:40 PM(UTC)
Apparently Dolphins are interested in trading for DJ Williams.
Quote:
sounds like #dolphins could have interest in FA TEs like Dallas Clark or Joel Dreesen- also heard they could trade for #packers DJ Williams


Pack93z  
#80 Posted : Friday, March 16, 2012 12:25:28 PM(UTC)
cheeseheads123 said: Go to Quoted Post
Apparently Dolphins are interested in trading for DJ Williams.



They can be interested all they want.. with the injury to Quarless.. I don't know that it is logical for us to part with Williams and probably not get much back in return.
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