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Wade  
#241 Posted : Thursday, May 17, 2012 5:53:25 PM(UTC)
wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
Shawn if I could applaud twice I would.

Formo that is the kind of thinking that has run us intot he ground.

The money doesn't magically appear for the State's portion. You may think it will all come from pull tabs and suites. It won't. Once the spot light is off them the money will come in from other sources as well.

Keep in mind there are State/City funds outside of the stadium. Millions will be spent on infrastructure. The streets will need to be redone. New lines. New sewers laid in. That won't come from pull tabs.
Then there is the knocking down the old stadium and re working the ground for something suitable in that location.

The people of the State of MN will end up paying a hefty sum just so they can say having 4 stadiums is awesome. Good for you. You deserve it.


The money that comes from pull tabs....it has alternate uses. Alternate uses that will no longer get the money because that money is going to build a stadium. Alternate uses that now will either go without doing or get funds from somewhere else. And, knowing how Americans (not just Minnesotans) hate to go without when the "government can provide", that likely means paying for them by borrowing more money or levying more taxes.

Your elected officials have decided that the stadium is worth all that. In my cynic's mind, I'm tempted to say they're hoping you all will miss this "opportunity cost" just like Americans have missed that the last trillion or so times they've promised something "without any higher taxes".

But I won't. Perhaps the stadium is worth it, after all. Perhaps this is the exception to the usual rule.

But exception or not, never say there is no social cost. There *always* is.

Always.

Formo  
#242 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2012 1:35:55 AM(UTC)
Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
The money that comes from pull tabs....it has alternate uses. Alternate uses that will no longer get the money because that money is going to build a stadium. Alternate uses that now will either go without doing or get funds from somewhere else. And, knowing how Americans (not just Minnesotans) hate to go without when the "government can provide", that likely means paying for them by borrowing more money or levying more taxes.

Your elected officials have decided that the stadium is worth all that. In my cynic's mind, I'm tempted to say they're hoping you all will miss this "opportunity cost" just like Americans have missed that the last trillion or so times they've promised something "without any higher taxes".

But I won't. Perhaps the stadium is worth it, after all. Perhaps this is the exception to the usual rule.

But exception or not, never say there is no social cost. There *always* is.

Always.



I'm assuming you meant to quote me.

Our elected officials have decided as such because they got more calls, letters, and emails than they had EVER gotten before by far on passing this stadium bill. So, in a sense, they were mostly just following constituent 'orders'.

I never said the deal was perfect and I won't say that there won't be some sort of social cost (obviously because I just don't know).. But what I WILL say is this: The NFL is bigger than it's ever been. There are only 32 teams in the NFL and there are more cities/markets that want an NFL team than there are NFL teams. So simple economics say, there's a higher demand than there is supply. Which means the price to have an NFL team is going to be steep. If the state of Minnesota didn't pony up some how, another market/city would have gladly ponied up.

And I, for one, am happy we will pay our dues.
Wade  
#243 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2012 8:18:46 AM(UTC)
Formo said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm assuming you meant to quote me.

Our elected officials have decided as such because they got more calls, letters, and emails than they had EVER gotten before by far on passing this stadium bill. So, in a sense, they were mostly just following constituent 'orders'.

I never said the deal was perfect and I won't say that there won't be some sort of social cost (obviously because I just don't know).. But what I WILL say is this: The NFL is bigger than it's ever been. There are only 32 teams in the NFL and there are more cities/markets that want an NFL team than there are NFL teams. So simple economics say, there's a higher demand than there is supply. Which means the price to have an NFL team is going to be steep. If the state of Minnesota didn't pony up some how, another market/city would have gladly ponied up.

And I, for one, am happy we will pay our dues.


I did. You know me -- permanently computer challenged! [grin1]

In the end, it's your state, not mine. If your state legislators decide its a good idea, if they are responding to your citizens, then it's not my place to claim that "it isn't worth it."

Not that that ever stops me, of course. [grin1]

But it probably should.

Formo  
#244 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2012 9:53:44 AM(UTC)
Wade said: Go to Quoted Post
I did. You know me -- permanently computer challenged! [grin1]

In the end, it's your state, not mine. If your state legislators decide its a good idea, if they are responding to your citizens, then it's not my place to claim that "it isn't worth it."

Not that that ever stops me, of course. [grin1]

But it probably should.



Yeah, no doubt.. You ain't paying for it, and you ain't spending money to attend it's events.. So I don't get how you get to say that it isn't worth it.. =P
Zero2Cool  
#245 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2012 10:28:04 AM(UTC)
Formo said: Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, no doubt.. You ain't paying for it, and you ain't spending money to attend it's events..


If by 'events' you mean Vikings games ... who is?
Formo  
#246 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2012 6:47:57 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool said: Go to Quoted Post
If by 'events' you mean Vikings games ... who is?


I have and will continue to do so. I'm sure VR has in the past, and will probably in the future (although I'll let him confirm or deny).

What's your point?
Zero2Cool  
#247 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2012 9:21:13 AM(UTC)
Formo said: Go to Quoted Post
I have and will continue to do so. I'm sure VR has in the past, and will probably in the future (although I'll let him confirm or deny).

What's your point?


Point is, that's two more than I was expecting.
gbguy20  
#248 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2012 10:35:16 AM(UTC)
since it's new i'll have to check it out least once. Maybe hit up a packers-vikings game. Hopefully the new place won't be as hostile as the dome is.
dfosterf  
#249 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2012 6:24:41 PM(UTC)
Formo said: Go to Quoted Post
WTF are you even saying? Time to pour some sense into your jughead, pal.




These things would make more sense to you if you had a better sense of humor. You get a waiver, as a Vikings fan.
Pack93z  
#250 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:54:33 PM(UTC)
Hmmmm... political rhetoric over PSL's and London, oh my.

Your words now carry little weight Dayton, you already signed away that control in the legislation, you have saddled the fine tax payers of MN with this double dip already. Pony up that wallet for those seat license then fork over the season ticket money with the stadium tax tacked on please.

You got played and ol' Ziggy isn't going to have to kick in as much "private" money to get this done.

Is it nirvana if you are on the outside of the stadium looking in?
Wade  
#251 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2012 6:35:58 PM(UTC)
hehe.
Formo  
#252 Posted : Tuesday, November 13, 2012 8:31:40 PM(UTC)
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
Hmmmm... political rhetoric over PSL's and London, oh my.

Your words now carry little weight Dayton, you already signed away that control in the legislation, you have saddled the fine tax payers of MN with this double dip already. Pony up that wallet for those seat license then fork over the season ticket money with the stadium tax tacked on please.

You got played and ol' Ziggy isn't going to have to kick in as much "private" money to get this done.

Is it nirvana if you are on the outside of the stadium looking in?


Dayton is now ponying up to the OTHER side of the fence now for more political gain. Not all that surprised. I'm totally done with this. It's done, signed, sealed, and well on it's way to being delivered.
Pack93z  
#253 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:13:03 AM(UTC)
More twin city drama.. or political posturing. Either way.. fans will be ponying the funds.

Quote:

Dayton says he'll fight Vikings on possible seat license fees, saying team wasn't forthright

PLYMOUTH, Minn. - Gov. Mark Dayton is not retreating from his vow to fight the Minnesota Vikings if they try to charge new big fees to season ticket holders to help fund the new football stadium.

Dayton says Thursday that he believes the team was not forthright about the possibility of hefty personal seat license charges when the stadium bill was moving through the legislative process.

He says he thought any plan would resemble the modest approach used by the Minnesota Twins and not like those of other NFL teams that have charged tens of thousands of dollars.

The Vikings say the stadium bill allows for personal seat licenses, but that no decisions have been made.

Dayton says he's confident the state's stadium authority would block overly extensive charges.



And.. is this Zeus from the PPO.. doppelganger maybe?

UserPostedImage
Formo  
#254 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:18:10 PM(UTC)
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
More twin city drama.. or political posturing. Either way.. fans will be ponying the funds.




And.. is this Zeus from the PPO.. doppelganger maybe?

UserPostedImage


Yes, political posturing. While the PSL thing sucks and I think is stupid, it's something that teams have EVERY right to do. Not to mention, Dayton forgets that the bill he signed exclusively says that the Vikings can use SBLs (basically PSLs).

Quote:
On PSLs -- called Stadium Builders Licenses (SBLs) here -- there are two references that make clear the Vikings are permitted to market and sell the licenses on behalf of the newly created stadium authority:

• Subd. 2 - NFL Team/Private Contribution; timing of expenditures - (a) The NFL team/private contribution, including stadium builder's license proceeds, for stadium costs must be made in cash in the amount of $477,000,000.

• Subd. 14 - Stadium Builder's Licenses. - The authority shall own and retain the exclusive right to sell stadium builder's licenses in the stadium. The authority will retain the NFL team to act as the authority's agent in marketing and selling such licenses.


No, that's not Zeus. That's Larry Spooner. Also known in Minnesota as the Viking Super Fan.
Porforis  
#255 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:25:39 PM(UTC)
Formo said: Go to Quoted Post
No, that's not Zeus. That's Larry Spooner. Also known in Minnesota as the Viking Super Fan.


I can tell, he's super indeed. No bag over his head or anything.
Cheesey  
#256 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2012 3:49:38 PM(UTC)
I'm glad the Vikings are staying put.
After all, you KNOW that if they moved, they would instantly win the Super Bowl, which would kill Vikesrule and Formo! And we NEED those guys here![grin1]
wpr  
#257 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2012 6:39:33 PM(UTC)
Cheesey said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm glad the Vikings are staying put.
After all, you KNOW that if they moved, they would instantly win the Super Bowl, which would kill Vikesrule and Formo! And we NEED those guys here![grin1]


forget em. no mercy for dirt bags.
Pack93z  
#258 Posted : Thursday, February 28, 2013 8:07:16 AM(UTC)
Ahhh.. so much for not impacting the tax payers directly.. well at least if this continues to hold true.



PFTalk said:
The to-be-constructed Vikings stadium is supposed to be funded in part by a specific form of gambling.

And the gamble on the gambling isn’t paying off, so far.

According to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, revenues for electronic pulltabs and bingo are far below the projections. In May 2012, the experts estimated that the games would generated $35 million per year. Gross revenues for the games are at only $7.5 million.

It’s unclear how it will all play out, but it’s not encouraging. And it could mean that changes to the funding mechanism will be necessary in order to pay for the stadium.

Unless they plan to build a stadium without, you know, seats. Or arm rests. Or toilets.
wpr  
#259 Posted : Thursday, February 28, 2013 8:21:59 AM(UTC)
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
Ahhh.. so much for not impacting the tax payers directly.. well at least if this continues to hold true.





it is always amazing how govt can arbitrarily come up with these fantastic numbers and thump on the podium that they are gospel. After hundreds of years of trying and failing almost every single time you would think they would learn.

We have the same issue in IL. They increased the tax on ciggies. It was going to fund some pet project. The revenue is less than a 3rd of what they said it would be. Apparently none of them believed that people would actually get in their car and drive to WI, IN, MO, KY, IA and buy cheaper cigarettes, gas and groceries.

It has been a real kick in the nuts to local retail within 50 miles of any one of these borders. The Dem reply (They control both Houses and Governor's Palace for years.) is that it will adjust to their projects in the long run. Even now they can't admit they screwed up. Sales tax hikes, sin tax increases, high utility rates, horrendous work comp rates are driving business and consumers from the state.

Margarine run anyone? [grin1]

When ever I see politicians mess up like this [aiee] I can't help but think of:

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