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Offline zombieslayer  
#76 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2012 9:50:21 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister Go to Quoted Post
An average of 27 players drafted in the 6th, 7th or UDFA were on the Packers 45 man roster last year.

Being passed on by other teams doesn't mean much.


Let's look at starters. Now, this is just sports.yahoo.com/nfl guessing who they are, but it's probably gonna be close to this:
Newhouse - 2010 5th
Lang - 2009 4th
Saturday - UFA - Colts
Sitton - 2008 4th
Bulaga - 2010 1st
Jennings - 2006 2nd
Finley - 2008 3rd
Rodgers - 2005 1st
Nelson - 2008 2nd
Kuhn - 2006 Waivers (Steelers)
Starks - 2010 6th

Pickett - UFA - Cards
Raji - 2009 1st
Hargrove - UFA - Seahawks
CM3 - 2009 1st
Hawk - 2006 1st
Bishop - 2007 6th
Perry - 2012 1st
Woodson - UFA - Raiders
Peprah - FA
Burnett - 2010 3rd
T Williams - FA

Crosby - 2007 6th
Mashtay - FA
Cobb - 2011 2nd

So I can't speak for other teams, but looks like the Packers build through the draft. And you can't include 6th and 7th rounds. That's still drafting. There are still gems in the late rounds.

We got only 3 UDFAs, and of those, one of them was our Punter.

Of course, our big UDFA steal was Tramon Williams. I bet the other 31 teams are kicking themselves over him.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#77 Posted : Monday, May 14, 2012 5:06:26 AM(UTC)
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If a player was drafted in the 6th or 7th round, how can he be said to have been passed on in the draft if he was selected?
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#78 Posted : Monday, May 14, 2012 6:25:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
If a player was drafted in the 6th or 7th round, how can he be said to have been passed on in the draft if he was selected?


The point was made that players who were passed on 7 times were not as talented. Is there a great deal of difference between being passed on 6 times and being passed on 7? Or in the case of a supplemental pick, they were actually passed on 7 times by each team before they were selected.

Is there a significant drop in talent between a 28th pick in the 7th round and an undrafted? How about the supplemental 7th round picks.

I was pointing out that being passed on by 32 teams doesn't mean they are untalented. 6th, 7th and undrafted players were all passed on several times.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.

Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#79 Posted : Monday, May 14, 2012 6:46:11 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister Go to Quoted Post
The point was made that players who were passed on 7 times were not as talented. Is there a great deal of difference between being passed on 6 times and being passed on 7? Or in the case of a supplemental pick, they were actually passed on 7 times by each team before they were selected.

Is there a significant drop in talent between a 28th pick in the 7th round and an undrafted? How about the supplemental 7th round picks.

I was pointing out that being passed on by 32 teams doesn't mean they are untalented. 6th, 7th and undrafted players were all passed on several times.


So the cup is half full unless it's half empty? There is no spoon ... Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. (oh I think I have an idea for movie night with Keiana now)

I hold the belief that all are talented and with the right system, the right coaching each can excel to great levels with the proper motivation. First round, third round or undrafted ... who gives a damn. If you can play, you can play.

Do some research on free agents and how well they succeed on their next team based on where they were drafted. (not TELLING you to do it, saying it as more 'matter of fact')
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline beast  
#80 Posted : Monday, May 14, 2012 8:43:50 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post

Pickett - UFA - Cards
Raji - 2009 1st
Hargrove - UFA - Seahawks



Pickett is from the Rams. And Hargrove might be forced to sit out 8 games, so I wouldn't say he's the starter. I'd go with Worthy.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#81 Posted : Monday, May 14, 2012 9:46:39 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: beast Go to Quoted Post
Pickett is from the Rams. And Hargrove might be forced to sit out 8 games, so I wouldn't say he's the starter. I'd go with Worthy.

The guy doesn't know the difference between a Ram and Cardinal, says Dimitri Nance has more value to a team than Barry Sanders and yet wonders why no one listens to his ranting about teams never needing to run the ball ever. Gee, I wonder! Wanna Box?
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Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#82 Posted : Monday, May 14, 2012 11:59:01 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
So the cup is half full unless it's half empty? There is no spoon ... Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. (oh I think I have an idea for movie night with Keiana now)

I hold the belief that all are talented and with the right system, the right coaching each can excel to great levels with the proper motivation. First round, third round or undrafted ... who gives a damn. If you can play, you can play.

Do some research on free agents and how well they succeed on their next team based on where they were drafted. (not TELLING you to do it, saying it as more 'matter of fact')


It doesn't matter if the cup is half full or half empty if it is ricin.

I can't research how well undrafted FAs do based on where they were drafted.Shrug
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.

Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#83 Posted : Monday, May 14, 2012 12:00:30 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister Go to Quoted Post
It doesn't matter if the cup is half full or half empty if it is ricin.

I can't research how well undrafted FAs do based on where they were drafted.Shrug


I don't think I could either. I wasn't directing you to do it or anything. My apologies if it came off as such.

I think I would take the best 10 free agents of the last 5 years and see where they were drafted.
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#84 Posted : Monday, May 14, 2012 12:10:48 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I don't think I could either. I wasn't directing you to do it or anything. My apologies if it came off as such.

I think I would take the best 10 free agents of the last 5 years and see where they were drafted.


No apology needed. I was joking.

I can't look up their performance based on where they were drafted because the undrafted FAs were not drafted.

The graph is missing an axis.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.

Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Offline Zero2Cool  
#85 Posted : Monday, May 14, 2012 12:12:51 PM(UTC)
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I was talking about actual free agents, not undrafted free agents. Reggie White was a free agent, for example, but not an undrafted free agent. Oh shit, he came from the USFL so ... dammit. Okay, umm, Charles Woodson was a free agent, but he was actually drafted in the NFL draft.
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline play2win  
#86 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2012 9:32:59 AM(UTC)
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Jordy Nelson made some comments regarding Driver:

"Following the recent departures of veteran left tackle Chad Clifton and safety Nick Collins, Nelson believes Driver serves an important role with the franchise and still has plenty of football ahead of him entering his 14th NFL season.

“I think he’s important,” said Nelson, who led the Packers with 68 receptions, 1,263 receiving yards and 15 touchdowns last season. “He’s fun to be around. You build those relationships and you don’t want them to end. We’ve already experienced two of them this year with Chad and Nick, and I think it would be tough to take a third.”"
http://blogs.greenbaypre...driver-back-next-season/

I think it will be tough to see him stay with the Packers this year. Michael Hunt had an article stating the same thing in the MJS today. However, should Ted run into a snag at another position due to injury, he could still use one of his many WRs in trade to fill that spot, or keep DD around for insurance till roster cut down to 53. I think Driver's value to GB is allowing for another WR to be traded, while he could provide the depth and leadership he's always given, at a more affordable price.

I wouldn't be surprised to see another WR traded away later on, or to see Driver hit the tiles in a roster cut, and play elsewhere. Just doesn't seem right, having one of our all-time greatest being sent out, but I get it, if it happens.
Offline dhazer  
#87 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2012 11:29:23 AM(UTC)
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play what the heck is it with you and thinking everyone wants our wide receivers? We won't trade Nelson and Cobb. No trade value in Jones and Driver at all and the only one that would be a slight chance for a trade would be Jennings in his contract year if I remember correctly.
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Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be :)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#88 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2012 11:42:37 AM(UTC)
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From rotoworld.com
6/23/2009: Signed a four-year, $26.885 million contract. The cap-friendly deal (after 2009) contains $16.25 million guaranteed, including an $11.25 million signing bonus and Jennings' first-year base salary. Another $3 million is available through incentives, including $25,000 per game played, $25,000 each season if he plays in 12 games and the Packers make the playoffs, and escalators maxing out at $700,000 in 2010, $1 million in 2011, and $1.25 million in 2012 based on playing time and team performance. $300,000 offseason workout bonuses are available 2010-2012.
2012: $3.885 million
2013: Free Agent
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline Cheesey  
#89 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:41:18 PM(UTC)
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I STILL think Driver has enough left for him to be valuable to the Packers.
I hope he can show the young guys he still has what it takes.
Let's face it, one injury, and having a talent like his on the roster could pay off big. It's not like he's lousy and not worth it.
If he shows in camp he's still "the go to guy", KEEP HIM!
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#90 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:44:05 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Cheesey Go to Quoted Post
I STILL think Driver has enough left for him to be valuable to the Packers.
I hope he can show the young guys he still has what it takes.
Let's face it, one injury, and having a talent like his on the roster could pay off big. It's not like he's lousy and not worth it.
If he shows in camp he's still "the go to guy", KEEP HIM!


He hasn't been the go to guy for a couple years now. Jennings and Nelson are ahead of him and most would probably say Cobb and James Jones are too. That puts him to 5th on the depth chart, a spot you ask the player to play in Special Teams often. The only way Donald Driver stays on the roster is if 1, pay cut, 2, injury to one of the names mentioned and proves he's worth keeping over a young developmental WR.
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline Cheesey  
#91 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:49:14 PM(UTC)
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I know Kevin....i'm just not ready to let go of DD yet.....Weeeee!!
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Offline Pack93z  
#92 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:52:35 PM(UTC)
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I think Ted has this all tied to DWTS... if Driver wins, he can stay. If not.. lol.


Seriously.. here is what I really think.. he will redo his contract some.. he will come to camp. Depending on how things shake out (overall depth) I can see him sticking this year yet.

Personally, as much as I like Jones as a overall player, I think he might be the out man out in Green Bay if there is depth with the young bucks. Affordable contract and would be a commodity on the market at another team could use. But for the Packers to move Jones, two young players need to step up and make the squad with the Packers keeping 6 at receiver. Driver filling in the 3rd to 4th option on passing plays.

I think Quarless starts the year on PUP, allowing the Packers to keep 3 other TE's and a pair of young bucks at receiver for the future. This gives Driver another season as a farewell tour so to speak.

With as complicated as the Packers offense is.. I think there is a limited amount of yearly turnover that can be afforded each year.. the above scenario gives the Packers maximum flexibly short and long term.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Zero2Cool  
#93 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2012 1:10:38 PM(UTC)
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Blah, Shawn copied my Quarless starts on PUP and Packers use that spot for WR! :P
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Offline Pack93z  
#94 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2012 1:14:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Blah, Shawn copied my Quarless starts on PUP and Packers use that spot for WR! :P


Might as well zing it now.. didn't read another post in this thread. Just what came to mind on the topic.

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Zero2Cool  
#95 Posted : Tuesday, May 15, 2012 1:19:40 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Might as well zing it now.. didn't read another post in this thread. Just what came to mind on the topic.


Yeah, it just makes the most sense to me. It gives Quarless more recovery time, plus provides a little insurance, unless there's a RB, or OL, or some other position where the talent/potential outweighs the value of Donald Driver of course.

Dumping James Jones is intriguing. If one of the young bucks shows equally capable, I could see Jones being let go straight up.
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline longtimefan  
#96 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2012 1:08:46 AM(UTC)
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One year deal okay???
Offline play2win  
#97 Posted : Wednesday, May 16, 2012 5:07:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dhazer Go to Quoted Post
play what the heck is it with you and thinking everyone wants our wide receivers? We won't trade Nelson and Cobb. No trade value in Jones and Driver at all and the only one that would be a slight chance for a trade would be Jennings in his contract year if I remember correctly.


Just saying it is possible with the glut of talent we have there. That's all. I didn't say, "everyone wants our wide receivers."

Uh, you COULD try giving me a little f'ing break, being it is about as slow as glacier formation on the football front... Neener, Neener
Offline play2win  
#98 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2012 6:21:08 AM(UTC)
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Offline dfosterf  
#99 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2012 7:05:54 PM(UTC)
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James Jones is staying right here, and that is a good thing, imo.
Past experience in viewing young WR's says to me that Randall Cobb has got to "replace Donald Driver" this year.
I love DD as much as the next guy, but we also have additional complications. We are stock-full of quality WR prospects, and we are going to have to make as many holes for them as possible. Hanging onto DD does not do that for them, as prospects. I wouldn't dismiss this factor, as regards DD.

Honestly, I'm good either way. It would be hard to fuck that up amongst the WR personnel we have, regardless of who gets let go.
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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



Offline dfosterf  
#100 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2012 7:11:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
Just saying it is possible with the glut of talent we have there. That's all. I didn't say, "everyone wants our wide receivers."

Uh, you COULD try giving me a little f'ing break, being it is about as slow as glacier formation on the football front... Neener, Neener


FIRST he'd have to learn how to not be a dick. If you can teach him that, I suggest you franchise it, as many sites would like your recipe.

lol lol lol

Flapper

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damn skippy I'm an owner. I currently own a full .00001924537805515393 % of the Green Bay Packers.



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