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Offline Wade  
#16 Posted : Monday, June 25, 2012 7:29:56 AM(UTC)
Wade

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Personally, I'd replace Emmitt Smith with Leroy Kelly.

Of course no one except a few of us geezers probably remember him.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Offline dhazer  
#17 Posted : Monday, June 25, 2012 10:17:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Receiving the ball and rushing the ball are two different things altogether. Whereas a quarterback having pocket presence directly relates to him being a quarterback. Very poor example.

Faulk played with Peyton Manning and Kurt Warner and played indoors a lot and yet Curtis Martin didn't share that luxury and didn't have a prolific offense to take the load off of him ... yet Martin still ran for more yards. I'm not knocking Faulk, just saying it's pretty clear when you remove bias of the "flash" that ESPN gives us ... Martin was the better running back. However, with a team having an offense say like the Packers, Faulk would be the pick hands down. But a team that is more of a ground and pound, they'd want Martin.

I think Martin hit the 70 mark receiving without an MVP quarterback or pass happy offense. Then again, he may have had those receptions because he was the dump-off guy on a team with no receivers!! lol




For someone that is so fact happy Zero you dropped the ball on this lol.

Faulk played with Manning 1 year and that was Mannings rookie year (watch out for that lol) and his first year in St Louis he played for a 3rd string QB in Kurt Warner. You forget Trent Green was suppose to be that teams QB. How can you say take receiving out of this, that is part of being a running back. If you want to talk like that I guess Sayers wasn't much he got his fame from being a returner not a RB.


All I can say is C'Mon man your starting to sound like ahhh Me Wanna Box?

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Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be :)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#18 Posted : Monday, June 25, 2012 12:21:49 PM(UTC)
Zero2Cool

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Originally Posted by: dhazer Go to Quoted Post
For someone that is so fact happy Zero you dropped the ball on this lol.

Faulk played with Manning 1 year and that was Mannings rookie year (watch out for that lol) and his first year in St Louis he played for a 3rd string QB in Kurt Warner. You forget Trent Green was suppose to be that teams QB. How can you say take receiving out of this, that is part of being a running back. If you want to talk like that I guess Sayers wasn't much he got his fame from being a returner not a RB.


All I can say is C'Mon man your starting to sound like ahhh Me Wanna Box?

Hmm, I surely didn't drop the ball, and certainty didn't forget about Trent Green.

I have not taken anything away from Faulk, as I said already.

I am saying if we're gonna mention Marshall Faulk for all time top ten running backs, why not mention the 4th overall leader in rushing yards? If we overlook Curtis Martin for lack of being a receiving threat, why not do the same to Barry Sanders then? Good ahead, pick that fight with me, lol.

I am honored to be considered on your level good sir!
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Offline porky88  
#19 Posted : Monday, June 25, 2012 2:32:24 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Brick wall You completely missed my point and didn't even answer my question! lol

Curtis Martin ran the ball better than Marshall Faulk. The numbers support that, especially considering he did it outdoors where Faulk did it indoors with several weapons on the offense taking the focus off of him. Martin was often the only offensive threat on his team. But you can't punish a guy for being in a good situation.

So I ask once again ... why bring up Faulk but not Martin? I think both should be in the discussion of ten best running backs of all time. Curtis Martin didn't get to 4th all time rushing leader by sitting on the bench eating hot dogs.

Curtis Martin averages for 10 seasons (1 of which was 13 games)
1,336.5 rushing yards
8.5 rushing touchdowns
321.1 receiving yards
1 receiving touchdown
46 receptions

Martin lost less fumbles during his career, but produced only a 4.0 for yards per carry. Curtis Martin brought the Jets to an AFC title game his first season with them as well. I like how you didn't mention that at all.

My issue isn't why Faulk and not Martin. That's not what I've been talking about. I actually believe Martin is a top 10 running back of all-time. I never said otherwise. I think Faulk is a top five running back of all-time, though, which makes his omission from the list more bizarre, in my opinion. That’s the only reason why I mentioned Faulk first and not Martin or said anything at all.

So I like Martin. I actually agree with you. Hell of a player and should be in the Hall of Fame one day. He's probably eight, nine, or 10 if I were to make my own list.

My issue was this....

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I'm not disputing Faulk's value, just saying his receiving talents don't merit any place in this discussion.

You can devalue Faulk's receiving capabilities or attribute it to a fast turf. I don't think turf helps running backs as much as you think, but having a philosophical difference doesn't bother me. I happen to elevate a player's versatility in my rankings. I think it's important. Maybe you don't. Fair enough. However, you can't throw it out of the discussion altogether. It belongs in the discussion. The original article even includes receiving in its rankings.
Offline Dexter_Sinister  
#20 Posted : Monday, June 25, 2012 3:50:28 PM(UTC)
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I have a huge issue with putting Smith anywhere near the list. He should be outside the top 100 all time.

He averaged a 4.2 per for his career. Which is fairly mundane.

He also should have retired about 4 years before he did. When his YPC dropped below 4, he was done being productive and was taking up carries to get a record.

He had a couple of good years, but not all time good. The only thing that really sets him apart, is he played about 4-5 years longer than anybody else who was decent. If he had not, he wouldn't be close to the record.

If Jim Brown, Gayle Sayers or Barry had played for 15 years, Emmit would never have caught them.

That is why I hate career total records. If you are the only guy to play that long, even mediocrity will give you a couple records.

Like Favre for example. His only competition is Vinny Testeverde and Steve DeBerg. If he didn't hold a crap load of career total records, he would have had to be worse than both of those two. Who were both basically backups for half of their careers. It is a testament to how bad Vinny was that he leads only Favre in total games lost in the NFL.

You also have to consider the Cowboys the O-line. One of the best ever. Emmit literally had to run 3 yards untouched and fall down for a 4.2 ypc average. Also one of the reasons he lasted as long as he did. Sanders was making moves 2 yards in the backfield and still getting 5 per. He out worked and out produced Emmit 7 to 1.2.

I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.

Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Offline Cheesey  
#21 Posted : Monday, June 25, 2012 4:21:10 PM(UTC)
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Barry Sanders was AMAZING to watch.
Any defense that played the Lions knew that he was their ONLY offense. Stop him, you stop the Lions.
I often wonder how he would have done had he been on a team that had a passing threat, where the D couldn't just key on him.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#22 Posted : Monday, June 25, 2012 4:33:00 PM(UTC)
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Curtis Martin was elected into the Hall of Fame this year I believe.
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Offline wpr  
#23 Posted : Tuesday, June 26, 2012 5:29:20 AM(UTC)
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I can't argue with the dhazer list. I would love to see anyone of them in the ir prime line up the the GB backfield.

It is interesting that you don't see any real old timers on the list. I attribute that to the shorter season and thus stats along with defenses packing the box more and teams using more backs to carry the ball on a regular basis. All of these backs were in the days of 1 featured back carrying the ball 90% of the time or more. (with the exception of Jim Brown.)
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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Offline Zero2Cool  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, June 26, 2012 6:12:48 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
I can't argue with the dhazer list. I would love to see anyone of them in the ir prime line up the the GB backfield.

It is interesting that you don't see any real old timers on the list. I attribute that to the shorter season and thus stats along with defenses packing the box more and teams using more backs to carry the ball on a regular basis. All of these backs were in the days of 1 featured back carrying the ball 90% of the time or more. (with the exception of Jim Brown.)


Yeah, just think a player who went to five consecutive Pro Bowls, won four NFL championships, and won the MVP award in 1962 wasn't even on the list. I think it's more so that the majority of us didn't get to watch the players from the 50's, 60's and 70's as much as we did the 80's and 90's running backs. Plus, remembering back 2 decades is easier than 4 decades.
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