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nerdmann  
#121 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 10:11:12 AM(UTC)
all_about_da_packers said: Go to Quoted Post
The answer is what it has always been: it depends on how the players are playing.

The basics of Capers 3-4 are not hard to figure out: control the run first, get teams into predictable down-and-distance scenarios (more simply: make them 1 dimensional passing team) and then unleash Blitzburg style defenses.

We really did not do a great job of controlling the run. We did, however, have CM3 coming up huge and a pass-rush early on clicking enough to get the Bears into predictable down-and-distance scenarios. That makes it pretty easy to call a more aggressive defense.

Frankly, I'm surprised at people wanting Capers fired. He is pretty good at what he does. However, if his team cannot actually do the necessary things to play an aggressive style, you're going to see a struggling defense. Which we saw last year.

Even after tonight's performance, I'm concerned about our run D. It still needs to improve if we have any shot against other elite NFC teams. We cannot be giving up 4+ yards a carry and expect solid Defensive performances. I hope that, as the year goes on, Perry and Walden can continue to set good edges against the run, and, most importantly, our D-linemen do their jobs at a high level against the competition. I have some confidence in the former, but am highly suspect about the latter; time will tell.

However, I'm much more concerned with our offense. Benson coming on is a big asset, but for the love of all that is right in this world I cannot figure out why we do not call more short routes and slants to force Safties closer to the LOS. Hell, exploit the middle of the field more with players like Cobb. You've essentially got two TEs that can play as WRs, allowing you to use Cobb's versatility more. I'm not sure what McCarthy is thinking - but I grow more concerned with each quarter that he is counting on the big play to eventually develop and kick start our O. Kind of like a couple of years ago when he was intent on force feeding Finley to the detriment of Jennings. His stubbornness - if what this is an example of - is concerning. Use the variety in your playbook - short completions, slant routes, completions over middle of the field - to force the safties closer, thereby opening up more stuff deep.


I'm starting to worry that Arodge might be pulling a Favre. Always wanting to go deep. Taking the risky throw.
doddpower  
#122 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 10:29:45 AM(UTC)
all_about_da_packers said: Go to Quoted Post
However, I'm much more concerned with our offense. Benson coming on is a big asset, but for the love of all that is right in this world I cannot figure out why we do not call more short routes and slants to force Safties closer to the LOS. Hell, exploit the middle of the field more with players like Cobb. You've essentially got two TEs that can play as WRs, allowing you to use Cobb's versatility more. I'm not sure what McCarthy is thinking - but I grow more concerned with each quarter that he is counting on the big play to eventually develop and kick start our O. Kind of like a couple of years ago when he was intent on force feeding Finley to the detriment of Jennings. His stubbornness - if what this is an example of - is concerning. Use the variety in your playbook - short completions, slant routes, completions over middle of the field - to force the safties closer, thereby opening up more stuff deep.


What makes you so sure McCarthy isn't calling those plays often, but Rodgers is changing the plays or simply making bad reads? I'm starting to think Rodger's has become less patient this season.
Pack93z  
#123 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 10:29:53 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm starting to worry that Arodge might be pulling a Favre. Always wanting to go deep. Taking the risky throw.


Not I.. Aaron takes shots if they are there. He really has had two bad reads so far this season, he missed Bowman last week on a late athletic drop. Briggs last night.. no freaking idea what he was looking at on that one.

His deep shots last week and this week were there.. some drops and a severely under throw on the Jennings fade last week. Jennings had the over.. Rodgers missed the throw.

Rodgers is human.. last season, he displayed less of that human trait.

He might be slightly less impatient.. but I think part of that is due to drops this season.. even the under routes he throws to they are dropping. Frustration more than impatience IMO.
Porforis  
#124 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 10:33:05 AM(UTC)
Other people have brought up the major problem I have with the shots we're taking downfield... That it's often on third and 1 or 2 around midfield, and then we don't go for it on 4th down. It seems as though McCarthy is more willing to just punt it away this year. Maybe that's because of a lack of confidence that our defense can hold the opposing offense from a shortened field, maybe it's something else. But I really hate punting from the 50, opponent's 45 on 4th and 1 after taking a shot downfield on 3rd, especially since Masthay rarely seems to be able to pin them within the 10. The man's got a monster leg, but the ball always seems to bounce forwards.
Pack93z  
#125 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 10:35:52 AM(UTC)
Porforis said: Go to Quoted Post
Other people have brought up the major problem I have with the shots we're taking downfield... That it's often on third and 1 or 2 around midfield, and then we don't go for it on 4th down. It seems as though McCarthy is more willing to just punt it away this year. Maybe that's because of a lack of confidence that our defense can hold the opposing offense from a shortened field, maybe it's something else. But I really hate punting from the 50, opponent's 45 on 4th and 1 after taking a shot downfield on 3rd, especially since Masthay rarely seems to be able to pin them within the 10. The man's got a monster leg, but the ball always seems to bounce forwards.


I think that is a learned behavior.. the last two seasons of inability in short yardage has left it up to the passing game to convert. Defenses hop the short, leaving the over lax.. Rodgers is reading that and taking the shots. They just are not connecting properly.. but that will come.

Normal year.. an offense should be behind a defense. I think we are normal.

zombieslayer  
#126 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 10:36:00 AM(UTC)
nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
I'm starting to worry that Arodge might be pulling a Favre. Always wanting to go deep. Taking the risky throw.


Disagree.

The 3rd and 1 shot that he missed to Jordy against the Niners was the absolute right call. He had 1 on 1 and if that was completed, it would be a TD and everyone would be saying how awesome the call was. He missed the throw.

The deep pass on 2nd and 6 to Jones wasn't a good pass, but Jones still should have caught it and if it was completed, we'd all be saying how good of a call it was. I called that pass in the chat. I said something along the lines of "Mike McCarthy should call a TD pass on this play." He did, and it was a good call.

The deep throw to Driver was a TD and it was the right call and it was executed perfectly.

Those were all great calls.
Rios39  
#127 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 10:47:52 AM(UTC)
I think we should stick with man coverage for a while. Last year with all the zone we just seen too many receivers finding the voids. If you look at the teams that give problems to QB's like Brady, Rodgers, Brees ect. It's teams that can play straight man coverage with help deep. I think an adjustment will be made cause those QB's absolutely wreck zone defense if there is no pressure.

I wouldn't can Zone altogether but I'd only use it now and then and not as the base philosophy of the defense. I think we found a combination of DB's that can play and succeed playing man with safeties deep banging down on the receiver late.
play2win  
#128 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 11:56:44 AM(UTC)
doddpower said: Go to Quoted Post
What makes you so sure McCarthy isn't calling those plays often, but Rodgers is changing the plays or simply making bad reads? I'm starting to think Rodger's has become less patient this season.


dodddude! I've been thinking that clock they used in preseason might be the culprit. Good to have the internal clock, but holding to that may force throws when others might open up with just a little more patience. Noticed the same thing over the past few outings.
dfosterf  
#129 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 3:14:58 PM(UTC)
tromadz said: Go to Quoted Post
Actually it seems the answer is "it depends on if Jarrett Bush is playing."

Amazing how well the DBs were with that scrub not on the field.


.



zombieslayer  
#130 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 4:07:14 PM(UTC)
dfosterf said: Go to Quoted Post
.





Dang. Here I was excited that I'd see a Foster rant and there's nothing there. :-k

Where did you go?
dfosterf  
#131 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 4:29:50 PM(UTC)
zombieslayer said: Go to Quoted Post
Dang. Here I was excited that I'd see a Foster rant and there's nothing there. :-k

Where did you go?


HEY! I'm flexble, lol- You get it right, I got nothin', lol

macbob  
#132 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 5:33:22 PM(UTC)
zombieslayer said: Go to Quoted Post
Disagree.

The 3rd and 1 shot that he missed to Jordy against the Niners was the absolute right call. He had 1 on 1 and if that was completed, it would be a TD and everyone would be saying how awesome the call was. He missed the throw.


Disagree. There were two defenders back. Jordy had one of them beat by a step or 2, the second was right with him.

That 3rd & 1 was a drive killer, unless Mike McCarthy was willing to go for it on 4th down, which he wasn't.

That is exactly the play I was thinking of when I said in another thread that I hated punting on 4th after throwing deep on 3rd & 1. Get the first, then take a shot deep when it won't end your drive if you don't complete it.
Cheesey  
#133 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 9:46:29 PM(UTC)
The only way Mike McCarthy is going to start handing off on 3rd and 1 is when the RB's prove they can make the yard.

As far as throwing on 3rd and 1, as i remember it, Bart Starr did that ALL the time, and most often it turned into a big play. But that was because the Packers had killer RB's back then so teams had to watch for them to run for it. That opened up the pass. If Benson (or whoever is in there) starts showing that they can make the hard yard, LOOK OUT! It would open up the big play for them!
PackerTraxx  
#134 Posted : Saturday, September 15, 2012 7:20:21 AM(UTC)
I blame the Oline more for not being able to get 3rd and 1. They're horrible, the entire "battle line" moves to our side of the line of scrimmage.
macbob  
#135 Posted : Saturday, September 15, 2012 10:17:56 AM(UTC)
macbob said: Go to Quoted Post
Disagree. There were two defenders back. Jordy had one of them beat by a step or 2, the second was right with him.

That 3rd & 1 was a drive killer, unless Mike McCarthy was willing to go for it on 4th down, which he wasn't.

That is exactly the play I was thinking of when I said in another thread that I hated punting on 4th after throwing deep on 3rd & 1. Get the first, then take a shot deep when it won't end your drive if you don't complete it.


Actually, I have to retract this partially. I liked it out of the old U71. Jennings would be out left, the right side would be stacked. If the safety helped out the CB we'd be 1 on 1 blocking for the run and if the safety cheated up the Jennings would be 1 on 1 deep. It was a run-pass option, based on the QB read of whether the safety was coming up or deep.

In the case of the 49ers, QB wouldn't have thrown deep because two guys were back. We'd have run it there.
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