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Offline IronMan  
#1 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 3:10:23 PM(UTC)
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The Justice Department is actually conducting a "criminal" investigation into a youtube video about Muhammad.

Can someone tell me what crime he has committed? A lot of liberals think this guy should be arrested. Do they think anyone who criticizes Christianity should be arrested too? (No, they don't. Liberals are hypocrites)

Its about time we stopped coddling these asshole terrorists. Our government has basically said, "Sorry about the Muhammad video. We probably deserved to be attacked. Carry on."

We need a leader with some balls that will tell these Islamic shit holes to go fuck themselves. The only thing they have that we "need" is oil. We need to find different sources of energy so we don't have to do business with these scumbags anymore.

Our country is great because we value freedom over everything else. If we arrest a guy for making a shitty youtube video our founding fathers would roll over in their graves.


thanks Post received 5 applause.
zombieslayer on 9/14/2012(UTC), Cheesey on 9/14/2012(UTC), Packerchick on 9/15/2012(UTC), Wade on 9/18/2012(UTC), Pack93z on 9/20/2012(UTC)
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Offline zombieslayer  
#2 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 3:56:25 PM(UTC)
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If they arrest this guy for making a shitty video, then the government SHOULD be overthrown. Period.

Americans have the RIGHT to offend. That's one of the most important Rights in the Constitution. I may not always like it, but that's yours and my Right.

And yes, the double standard sucks shit. Liberals love to suck off Muslims. You'll see them insult Jesus every chance they get, but Mohammed is untouchable. Go figure.

(And for the record, I have NEVER met a Muslim I didn't like. Nor a Mormon nor a Methodist. They've always been cool to me so I like 'em all. But slaughtering sacred cows is as American as apple pie).
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thanks Post received 1 applause.
Cheesey on 9/14/2012(UTC)
Offline Formo  
#3 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 7:52:29 PM(UTC)
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And this is why I missed you so much, IM!! NEVER LEAVE ME AGAIN!! >:(
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wpr on 9/15/2012(UTC)
Offline Cheesey  
#4 Posted : Friday, September 14, 2012 10:30:00 PM(UTC)
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IRONMAN!!!
SO good to see you are still with us!
And i agree with what you and Zombie said!
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Packerchick on 9/15/2012(UTC)
Offline macbob  
#5 Posted : Saturday, September 15, 2012 8:23:26 AM(UTC)
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According to the news, the feds are NOT investigating the production of the video. The feds are investigating him for parole violation.

News reports are saying he was on probation for bank fraud conspiracy from stealing identities & SSANs and stealing $790K from others accounts, transferring them into accounts set up with fake identities, and then withdrawing the funds through ATMs.

He pleaded no-contest to the charges, was sentenced to 21 months in federal prison. He was released early on probation, with the news reporting that the terms of his parole included being barred from assuming aliases and using computers or the Internet for five years without approval from his probation officer.

It's not relevant to this issue per se, but says a little about the guy himself--he served 1 year in prison in 1997 for possession of meth with intent to manufacture. He's not a pristine individual.
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porky88 on 9/15/2012(UTC)
Offline zombieslayer  
#6 Posted : Saturday, September 15, 2012 9:16:44 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: macbob Go to Quoted Post
According to the news, the feds are NOT investigating the production of the video. The feds are investigating him for parole violation.

News reports are saying he was on probation for bank fraud conspiracy from stealing identities & SSANs and stealing $790K from others accounts, transferring them into accounts set up with fake identities, and then withdrawing the funds through ATMs.

He pleaded no-contest to the charges, was sentenced to 21 months in federal prison. He was released early on probation, with the news reporting that the terms of his parole included being barred from assuming aliases and using computers or the Internet for five years without approval from his probation officer.

It's not relevant to this issue per se, but says a little about the guy himself--he served 1 year in prison in 1997 for possession of meth with intent to manufacture. He's not a pristine individual.


OK, good. Well, not good, but you know what I mean. I'd be really pissed if they went after him for the video.

Yes, there are plenty of shitty people out there. But you could be a great person and have stupid political ideas or a lousy person and be right on. I'm not saying I agree with the video (I haven't even seen it), but Freedom of Speech is almost absolute. The only things you can't do are slander, violations of privacy (like posting your SSN and credit card numbers online), or violations of copyright (like I can't post a poem you wrote and claim I wrote it). Or you can't directly threaten an individual. Everything else is fair game, even offensive speech.
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Offline Wade  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, September 18, 2012 7:28:23 AM(UTC)
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funny thing is, the rights aren't supposed to just protect choir boys.

that's the problem when courts give broad conduct bans ("no internet") that mean punishment disproportionate ("restrict freedom of speech") to the offense ("defraud a bank").

Should the probation that follows completion of a prison term for an offense be able to trump the First Amendment?

It's that damnable distinction between "civil rights" and "natural rights" again. If freedom to speak and associate is simply a government-created "civil" right? Or is it something that exists prior to the Constitution?

The Supremes of course will say its "merely" the former, and will defer to the terms of the probation. According to the Supremes, freedom of speech is nothing close to an absolute, I'm afraid, zombieslayer.

Because the Supremes, as usual, are full of shit.

And "Justice Department" is an oxymoron.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.


None of the above. It wouldn't have been a wasted vote. Obama and Romney -- Those were the wasted votes.
Offline zombieslayer  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, September 18, 2012 9:03:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
funny thing is, the rights aren't supposed to just protect choir boys.

that's the problem when courts give broad conduct bans ("no internet") that mean punishment disproportionate ("restrict freedom of speech") to the offense ("defraud a bank").

Should the probation that follows completion of a prison term for an offense be able to trump the First Amendment?

It's that damnable distinction between "civil rights" and "natural rights" again. If freedom to speak and associate is simply a government-created "civil" right? Or is it something that exists prior to the Constitution?

The Supremes of course will say its "merely" the former, and will defer to the terms of the probation. According to the Supremes, freedom of speech is nothing close to an absolute, I'm afraid, zombieslayer.

Because the Supremes, as usual, are full of shit.

And "Justice Department" is an oxymoron.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.




Oh, I agree. Rights are something that your God or Goddess gives you. They're not something that come from the government. A lot of Americans don't understand that.

Let's take a horrible person. Let's say some drunk asshole beat someone up really badly and took his wallet, then stole his car and crashed it and injured a nun. That person after he gets out of jail STILL SHOULD have the same Rights as anyone else, because as bad as that asshole was, he's still created by God (or Goddess if you're a Pagan) and still has Rights given to him by his Creator.

Now let's hypothetically say this person gets into politics and has some pretty good ideas how to fix this country. Bringing up his past is still an Argument Ad Hominem. Yes, he was a total scumbag. But that has nothing to do with whether or not his ideas hold any merit. I wouldn't want him babysitting my kids or alone with my wife, but I may still vote for him.
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Offline macbob  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, September 19, 2012 5:12:41 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Wade Go to Quoted Post
funny thing is, the rights aren't supposed to just protect choir boys.

that's the problem when courts give broad conduct bans ("no internet") that mean punishment disproportionate ("restrict freedom of speech") to the offense ("defraud a bank").

Should the probation that follows completion of a prison term for an offense be able to trump the First Amendment?


Yes.

But your question is wrong--probation is the stipulations on a prisoner who is released BEFORE completing his sentence. Once he's completed his sentence, he's paid his debt to society and is simply released WITHOUT probation terms.

Nobody's making him accept probation. If he doesn't like the probation terms, he can finish out his jail sentence.

I'm not going to blame the government for sticking this butthead back in jail if he doesn't abide by the probation rules HE AGREED TO in order to be released from jail early.

In this case, I think the probation (no internet, no aliases, etc) likely wasn't 'disproportionate', but was imposed because he used the internet in his crime to steal people's IDs, etc. But that's beside the point. If he doesn't like the terms, he doesn't have to get out of jail early.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, September 19, 2012 7:16:27 PM(UTC)
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Well, I tried watching the preview of that movie and it's downright awful. I couldn't even get past the preview.

If I were Muslim, I wouldn't be offended by it. Instead, I'd laugh at how crappy it is.

It's like getting made fun of by a four-year-old. If you get offended, the problem is you, not the four-year-old.
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Offline Porforis  
#11 Posted : Wednesday, September 19, 2012 7:31:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: zombieslayer Go to Quoted Post
Well, I tried watching the preview of that movie and it's downright awful. I couldn't even get past the preview.

If I were Muslim, I wouldn't be offended by it. Instead, I'd laugh at how crappy it is.

It's like getting made fun of by a four-year-old. If you get offended, the problem is you, not the four-year-old.


Why laugh at how crappy it is when you can kill the four year old? Be rational!
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thanks Post received 1 applause.
zombieslayer on 9/19/2012(UTC)
Offline Porforis  
#12 Posted : Wednesday, September 19, 2012 7:32:17 PM(UTC)
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Sorry, my bad. Kill a bunch of unrelated people and burn shit because you're mad at the 4 year old.
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Offline Pack93z  
#13 Posted : Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:24:26 AM(UTC)
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This failure (which I agree it is) hasn't just appeared, it has been building for decades. The assault on our constitutional rights has been progressing president after president.

Why?

Because we continue to allow it. Where is the breaking point, that is the question. And when it snaps, how will it snap.

I know Wade posts his view on the ways it happens, but honestly, I don't see it changing without, regretfully, blood spilled. The bureaucrats have built in layers of protection in which the system (and their asses) are protected from peaceful means of change.

My view.. I wish it was different, but it don't see it changing.

So yes.. it is Full Blown Fail... it has been pointing in that direction for decades.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#14 Posted : Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:43:11 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
This failure (which I agree it is) hasn't just appeared, it has been building for decades. The assault on our constitutional rights has been progressing president after president.

Why?

Because we continue to allow it. Where is the breaking point, that is the question. And when it snaps, how will it snap.

I know Wade posts his view on the ways it happens, but honestly, I don't see it changing without, regretfully, blood spilled. The bureaucrats have built in layers of protection in which the system (and their asses) are protected from peaceful means of change.

My view.. I wish it was different, but it don't see it changing.

So yes.. it is Full Blown Fail... it has been pointing in that direction for decades.


My friend, I unfortunately agree with you.

The ONLY way our Rights will be restored will be with blood spilled. I don't see them restored peacefully.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#15 Posted : Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:44:35 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: macbob Go to Quoted Post
According to the news, the feds are NOT investigating the production of the video. The feds are investigating him for parole violation.

News reports are saying he was on probation for bank fraud conspiracy from stealing identities & SSANs and stealing $790K from others accounts, transferring them into accounts set up with fake identities, and then withdrawing the funds through ATMs.

He pleaded no-contest to the charges, was sentenced to 21 months in federal prison. He was released early on probation, with the news reporting that the terms of his parole included being barred from assuming aliases and using computers or the Internet for five years without approval from his probation officer.

It's not relevant to this issue per se, but says a little about the guy himself--he served 1 year in prison in 1997 for possession of meth with intent to manufacture. He's not a pristine individual.


I don't understand the connection with the Government investigating a criminal and the Government in fail mode. The video appears to have created attention for him, thus the saying the squeaky wheel gets the grease comes to mind. No video, he slips through the radar.

Not defending the Government here, but no matter what the Government does, some will find ways to bitch about it and how wrong it is.

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