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Offline Porforis  
#1 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2012 1:03:20 PM(UTC)
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Ignoring hindsight, do you think the fake field goal resulting in a Masthay incompletion was a bad call? Obviously it was a poor pass and he looked to have a man open to the left close to the first down marker that he didn't see, but was the call itself a good or bad idea:

Context: Packers up 14-12 in the third quarter. Jacksonville has been moving the ball well in the first half, sputters on their first drive of the second half. The Packers have been ineffective on offense, and are at the Jacksonville 37 on fourth down with 6 to go. Do you let Crosby kick a long one to try to get points on the board, let Masthay punt it away, let the offense try to pick up the first, or move from field goal formation to having Masthay in the backfield, and let him try to throw for the first?

Personally, I'm a bit torn. If not for Crosby's recent difficulties, I'd say kick it. If the offense was in synch, I might even say go for it, but 6 yards is a bit steep. I personally would not make the call, but I'm not opposed to it. Unfortunately, the execution wasn't there and we turned the ball over. I do like that we are often unpredictable on special teams though, and would like to see more trickery at times on offense (fleaflicker, double reverse with Cobb, etc).
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Offline zombieslayer  
#2 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2012 1:04:49 PM(UTC)
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Yay.

At worst, it keeps makes the blood pressure of the opposing ST coordinator go through the roof.

We're playing like the ol' Techmo Bowl. I love it.
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Offline Pack93z  
#3 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2012 1:06:46 PM(UTC)
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I am alright with the fake.. but the play design.. not so much. Splitting Crosby wide.. wasn't a threat, just clogged that side of the field off. The other side.. was a deep route..

If your going to have him throw the ball.. give him an under that he may be able to complete.

But they were looking for a spark yesterday.. that to me is more troubling.. that we need to find a spark with 3 losses already and Superbowl aspirations.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline nerdmann  
#4 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2012 1:16:06 PM(UTC)
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This is probably why they've been attempting all those long FGs lately. To set this play up.

It gives other coords something to study on film, and think about during games.

I didn't mind it. Execution wasn't the best, but that's a different matter altogether.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#5 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2012 2:14:32 PM(UTC)
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A fake at that part of the field, when Crosby has been having trouble I don't disagree with. The actualy play design I think was terrible. Shifting out just telegraphed it. Defense just needed to play the pass a punt wouldn't hurt them.

Only thing positive about the play, was the jags might not have known that he was a lefty.

But overall a terrible play design.
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Offline nerdmann  
#6 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2012 2:25:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
A fake at that part of the field, when Crosby has been having trouble I don't disagree with. The actualy play design I think was terrible. Shifting out just telegraphed it. Defense just needed to play the pass a punt wouldn't hurt them.

Only thing positive about the play, was the jags might not have known that he was a lefty.

But overall a terrible play design.


That was definitely part of the surprise.

Bubba Franks and Ahman Green were both lefties.
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Offline Scythe  
#7 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2012 2:36:19 PM(UTC)
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It was an odd play, but I don't mind it. They ran a similar play a couple of years ago against the Vikings when Flynn was the holder. It would have worked too if Quarless hadn't tripped.
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nerdmann on 10/29/2012(UTC)
Offline Porforis  
#8 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2012 3:46:39 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
A fake at that part of the field, when Crosby has been having trouble I don't disagree with. The actualy play design I think was terrible. Shifting out just telegraphed it. Defense just needed to play the pass a punt wouldn't hurt them.

Only thing positive about the play, was the jags might not have known that he was a lefty.

But overall a terrible play design.


I don't know if it necessarily gave away that they were going to pass it - It fooled me AND the announcers, I thought he was going to punt it away. But it does definitely put the defense on high alert. The flip side with splitting people wide is that it gives Masthay more time. If people just bump the rushers and go into their routes, Masthay has 2, 3 seconds max. Moving your men out wide also moves rushers away from Masthay, in a perfect world this would mean that he'd have a chance to look at more than one, two guys before having to throw it or run.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#9 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2012 4:29:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
I don't know if it necessarily gave away that they were going to pass it - It fooled me AND the announcers, I thought he was going to punt it away. But it does definitely put the defense on high alert. The flip side with splitting people wide is that it gives Masthay more time. If people just bump the rushers and go into their routes, Masthay has 2, 3 seconds max. Moving your men out wide also moves rushers away from Masthay, in a perfect world this would mean that he'd have a chance to look at more than one, two guys before having to throw it or run.


But as a defense, are you really going to care if you guess wrong and they punt? What is the worst that is going to happen, you get the ball. Outside of Cunningham quick kicking on 3rd down, I can't recall a trick play where the best result is the other team getting the ball.
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Offline GermanGilbert  
#10 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2012 5:10:07 PM(UTC)
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I didn't really care about the fake, not at all, to be honest I really love the gutsy calls on special teams this season. That saved 7 yds, because I'm pretty sure Crosby would't have split the uprights from that distance based on the performance this season. However the final play call and its execution was horrible. Once they split out Crosby the play was obvious. I'd rather had run the fake out of the FG formation. That said, my call would have been "take a delay of game penalty and take an easier shot to nail them near their endzone."
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Offline StoicFire  
#11 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2012 6:23:56 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: GermanGilbert Go to Quoted Post
I didn't really care about the fake, not at all, to be honest I really love the gutsy calls on special teams this season. That saved 7 yds, because I'm pretty sure Crosby would't have split the uprights from that distance based on the performance this season. However the final play call and its execution was horrible. Once they split out Crosby the play was obvious. I'd rather had run the fake out of the FG formation. That said, my call would have been "take a delay of game penalty and take an easier shot to nail them near their endzone."


I've liked a lot of the special teams calls this year as well, but this one didn't feel right to me. I think given the field position, going for it instead of trusting Crosby to hit the long ball is a good call.

However I still have trouble with the idea of taking the reigning MVP of the league off the field and letting anyone else pass. I understand that it gives opposing special teams coaches something to plan for now, but if you're going to pick up 7 yards via the forward pass... I would SO much rather see Aaron throw it out of a normal offensive formation.

Oh, and also punting and pinning them deep would have been fine as well. I thought the defense was playing a great game, so turning the field position in our favor may have just been the right call.
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Offline wpr  
#12 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2012 6:35:59 PM(UTC)
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I am a bit torn too. Execution was poor. I wouldn't have minded a pooch punt there. Put them down on the 5-10. I thought it was beyond Crosby's effective range as I didn't want a FG attempt. they certainly were struggling offensively so they needed to do something to get a score.

All in all A failed pass did not give them the ball in the same spot as a missed FG would have. I was glad for that.
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Offline RaiderPride  
#13 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2012 9:44:21 PM(UTC)
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YAY... BIG YAY.

The Cardinal coaching staff will be watching yesterday's game film.

It is just one more thing the Cardinals have to prepare for and practice against in their short week going into next Sunday. Keep the Cards coaches, wondering, worrying and confused on what they need to focus on and prepare for in 6 days.





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Offline gbguy20  
#14 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2012 11:07:50 PM(UTC)
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Don't understand the yays. If you're going to go for it on 4th down, and you're going to make it fucking obvious that you are going to go for it, it better be rodgers throwing the football. absolutely terrible decision to even call the play, and having now seen that disaster of a play design the decision is 100x worse. disgusting.
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Offline packerfanoutwest  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:28:24 AM(UTC)
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my first post in a long time and it is a negative one.....I said WTF when they were lining up for the fake FG. A left handed FG kicker rolls to the left and then throws back to his right down field? Heck that's even tough for Rodgers at times. That was a bad play call as are most of Mike McCarthy play calls.
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Zero2Cool on 10/30/2012(UTC)
Offline yooperfan  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 5:23:11 AM(UTC)
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Nay!
Whose ever idea it was to call that play with that planned execution needs their head examined. It looked like a cluster fuck right from the get go.
I can understand not having Crosby kick it since anything 50+ makes his head spin, but certainly the Packers have something better than that kind of shit in their playbook.
Offline PackerTraxx  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 6:18:36 AM(UTC)
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My question is did they use a trick play against a weak team so it had a better chance of working, even though they shouldn't need it, or did they us it against a weak team so it doesn't come back and haunt them? Think Shrug Laugh
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Offline nerdmann  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 8:30:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx Go to Quoted Post
My question is did they use a trick play against a weak team so it had a better chance of working, even though they shouldn't need it, or did they us it against a weak team so it doesn't come back and haunt them? Think Shrug Laugh


I think Mike McCarthy wants to run some plays like that to make a statement to his team. After the fake kick scored a TD against the Bares, he made some comment about that. It seemed to me it wasn't whether or not the play "worked," it was more about attitude.

I think Mike McCarthy wants to make some sort of a point with that shit.

Seems almost like he's setting some weird long range shit up for the playoffs too. He knows all these plays are gonna get reviewed and analyzed around the league.
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Offline Porforis  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 10:00:41 AM(UTC)
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I just wish McCarthy would use that kind of imagination and trickery on offense. In the past I hated the trick plays on offense like double reverses and flea flickers, but with someone like Cobb to either run with the ball or grab the attention of the defense, it's a lot easier to pull them off. Especially since we've had problems moving the ball on offense in a few games - something like that can create a spark if it works, worst-case scenario you lose 6 yards and you're punting anyways.
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Offline zombieslayer  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 10:38:03 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
I just wish McCarthy would use that kind of imagination and trickery on offense. In the past I hated the trick plays on offense like double reverses and flea flickers, but with someone like Cobb to either run with the ball or grab the attention of the defense, it's a lot easier to pull them off. Especially since we've had problems moving the ball on offense in a few games - something like that can create a spark if it works, worst-case scenario you lose 6 yards and you're punting anyways.


Maybe we need to bring back James Lofton. Remember his 71-yard TD run on the double reverse against the Cows in the Playoffs?

I wanna see Mike McCarthy call one of those. I wanna see the opposing Defensive Coordinator get so mad he throws his headset to the ground. That would be cool.
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Offline beast  
#21 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 11:34:48 AM(UTC)
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I like the idea of a fake but have some other problems with play they picked.


1) They faked a run but sliding him to his left... that might be fine if he was an experienced passer... but as far as I know he's not, why not tell him to stay put so he can focus on proper foot placement, which leads to a better pass.

2) Why did they put in two kickers? That didn't make sense to me.

2a) If they're doing it off of a fake FG kick they could of put Cobb in as the holder (Cobb has been the holders and still is the back-up holder) also Cobb has played the wild cat QB in college and has also thrown some WR passes in college, and much more of a threat to run it and get away from a pass rush. Also I think Cobb is left handed just like the punter.

2b) If they did it off of a fake Punt they wouldn't of had to put in Crosby, who I think most people didn't think was a threat to be thrown to.
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Offline Pack93z  
#22 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 11:41:03 AM(UTC)
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Do you not think if they put Harrell or Cobb in to hold for the kick that the Jags might have read that something is up?

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline Porforis  
#23 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 11:42:53 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: beast Go to Quoted Post
I like the idea of a fake but have some other problems with play they picked.


1) They faked a run but sliding him to his left... that might be fine if he was an experienced passer... but as far as I know he's not, why not tell him to stay put so he can focus on proper foot placement, which leads to a better pass.

2) Why did they put in two kickers? That didn't make sense to me.

2a) If they're doing it off of a fake FG kick they could of put Cobb in as the holder (Cobb has been the holders and still is the back-up holder) also Cobb has played the wild cat QB in college and has also thrown some WR passes in college, and much more of a threat to run it and get away from a pass rush. Also I think Cobb is left handed just like the punter.

2b) If they did it off of a fake Punt they wouldn't of had to put in Crosby, who I think most people didn't think was a threat to be thrown to.


1. Masthay is the normal holder unless I'm crazy
2. Putting Cobb in there immediately tips off the special teams to trickery. By leaving Masthay in there rather than sending Cobb back to pass, it's much more believable that they were just going to punt it away. With Cobb back there, it's obvious they're trying to pick up the first down. Maybe they could try sneaking him in elsewhere in the formation, have Masthay lateral it to him if nobody's wide open right away and let Cobb decide whether he's going to run with it or pass it. But that's too complicated of a play IMO.
3. Masthay's not a terrible passer, in fact his other NFL throw resulted in a TD for what that's worth. He just didn't make a great read, and tried making a very difficult pass. The pass itself looked good, just way underthrown because he was throwing it something like 15 yards deep across the length of the field. He might not be a terrible passer, but he's still a punter, he's going to have a noodle arm.
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Offline wpr  
#24 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:09:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
1. Masthay is the normal holder unless I'm crazy
2. Putting Cobb in there immediately tips off the special teams to trickery. By leaving Masthay in there rather than sending Cobb back to pass, it's much more believable that they were just going to punt it away. With Cobb back there, it's obvious they're trying to pick up the first down. Maybe they could try sneaking him in elsewhere in the formation, have Masthay lateral it to him if nobody's wide open right away and let Cobb decide whether he's going to run with it or pass it. But that's too complicated of a play IMO.
3. Masthay's not a terrible passer, in fact his other NFL throw resulted in a TD for what that's worth. He just didn't make a great read, and tried making a very difficult pass. The pass itself looked good, just way underthrown because he was throwing it something like 15 yards deep across the length of the field. He might not be a terrible passer, but he's still a punter, he's going to have a noodle arm.


agreed. Cobb as the holder would have changed the coverage personnel. They would have potentially changed personnel if they say Cobb on the field anyway. After reviewing 100 other kick formations without Cobb would have meant something was up.
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Offline yooperfan  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2012 12:27:08 PM(UTC)
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It made one of the top 5 dumbest decisions on "Mike and Mike".
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