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Pack93z  
#61 Posted : Monday, December 17, 2012 9:16:22 PM(UTC)
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
As i read the article and section what it says, as it pertains to the subject at hand. That the NFLPA would need to show that the league adding playoff teams, would significantly affect the terms and conditions of their employment.

It doesn't say that any change to the bylaws or nfl constitution has to go through the PA. Only if the change would significantly affect the terms.

And I don't see how they would establish significant change when the compensation and structure is already set.



92 additional players performing in the postseason would not constitute a significant change? And the other teams players having to perform in additional games as well because of the add.

But yet changing the cutdown days would be a significant change? Adding a IR exemption that would effect at the max 32 players is considered a significant change. Yes, adding a playoff team to each league is a significant change to the bylaws. Citing case example, the IR exemption was almost shelved because the NFLPA and NFL couldn't originally come to terms on concessions.. eventually they came back to the table and hammered it out.

Continue to believe as you may.
PackFanWithTwins  
#62 Posted : Monday, December 17, 2012 9:42:11 PM(UTC)
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
92 additional players performing in the postseason would not constitute a significant change? And the other teams players having to perform in additional games as well because of the add.

But yet changing the cutdown days would be a significant change? Adding a IR exemption that would effect at the max 32 players is considered a significant change. Yes, adding a playoff team to each league is a significant change to the bylaws. Citing case example, the IR exemption was almost shelved because the NFLPA and NFL couldn't originally come to terms on concessions.. eventually they came back to the table and hammered it out.

Continue to believe as you may.


No 92 additional players wouldn't be a significant change as it pertains to the CBA. It is still 4 wild card games being played and the same number of players playing in them. And the payment and practice schedules are specified. Players are getting paid for the games they play.

And yes, cut down days, IR exemption was significant because how and when the players can practice and come is something that had to be spelled out that wasn't.
Pack93z  
#63 Posted : Monday, December 17, 2012 9:56:05 PM(UTC)
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
No 92 additional players wouldn't be a significant change as it pertains to the CBA. It is still 4 wild card games being played and the same number of players playing in them. And the payment and practice schedules are specified. Players are getting paid for the games they play.

And yes, cut down days, IR exemption was significant because how and when the players can practice and come is something that had to be spelled out that wasn't.



But that is the thing... the IR and cut down days/player counts were defined. They amended the bylaws to change them.

In the same fashion that adding work days to at least 92 players is a significant change to their contract, the league year and schedules. I say as least 92 players, as there are other players that will be required to practice and prepare for additional games. Matters little that the compensation is set, it does matter that at least 92 players are putting their bodies and careers at risk for additional games. Hence why it would amount to a significant change.

The roster counts and cutdowns is a more valid comparison, the league is asking for and extending the work schedule for union workers. Similar to what they are asking for by adding playoff games.


PackFanWithTwins  
#64 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:11:22 AM(UTC)
Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
But that is the thing... the IR and cut down days/player counts were defined. They amended the bylaws to change them.

In the same fashion that adding work days to at least 92 players is a significant change to their contract, the league year and schedules. I say as least 92 players, as there are other players that will be required to practice and prepare for additional games. Matters little that the compensation is set, it does matter that at least 92 players are putting their bodies and careers at risk for additional games. Hence why it would amount to a significant change.

The roster counts and cutdowns is a more valid comparison, the league is asking for and extending the work schedule for union workers. Similar to what they are asking for by adding playoff games.




It isn't adding work days to what any player expects or hopes to be playing when the preseason starts. You seem to be thinking of it like they are being told they have to work labor day. If it went to court, all that would need to be done is ask any player. When the season starts, do you hope to be playing in the playoffs. they would all answer yes.

A similar situation would have been when the pro-bowl was moved from after the SB to before. It made it so None of the players in the superbowl could play so an additional group of players had the chance. It isn't an increase in the number of players who have to play, only a change in which players have the chance.
Porforis  
#65 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:17:56 AM(UTC)
This is PackersHome.com, not FootballLawyersHome.com.
PackFanWithTwins  
#66 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 7:37:36 AM(UTC)
I've been staying at a Holiday Inn Express just for this conversation. Don't want to waste it.
Pack93z  
#67 Posted : Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:21:48 AM(UTC)
PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
It isn't adding work days to what any player expects or hopes to be playing when the preseason starts. You seem to be thinking of it like they are being told they have to work labor day. If it went to court, all that would need to be done is ask any player. When the season starts, do you hope to be playing in the playoffs. they would all answer yes.

A similar situation would have been when the pro-bowl was moved from after the SB to before. It made it so None of the players in the superbowl could play so an additional group of players had the chance. It isn't an increase in the number of players who have to play, only a change in which players have the chance.


While I agree that the players might want to be in and still be playing, it doesn't mean that it doesn't affect the # of work days expected to the labor pool. It does and affects the work schedule for players, so the union is going to want to be involved. Even if it is just to get other concessions from the owners. It is the overstep that is the definition of today's unions, even when the change assists the workers, they still want to get more out of it. As much as I don't like union tactics overall, it doesn't change that the union is there and the legal contracts maintain that the union has to sign off on it.

Much like the IR exemption, it only helps players by being able to return to the field and possibly earn more incentives in their contracts. Yet the Union was standing in the NFL's path to make sure they approved a change to the possibly work contract of a player.

Players across the league are signed to a NFL contract, in that contract they are signing on for the defined league year as defined in the Bylaws and adopted by the CBA. Any change to that contract, which includes the playoffs, is changing the defined work agreed upon by the Union and NFL.

As far as the Holiday Inn comment, this is one area in which I actually have both experience and education. 5 years managing a Union Shop glass plant and 3 years of Business and Corporate law in college. There isn't a judge out there that is not going to agree that this isn't a significant change in the defined labor agreement.
PackerTraxx  
#68 Posted : Friday, December 28, 2012 9:37:06 AM(UTC)
Don't expand.
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