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Offline nerdmann  
#51 Posted : Saturday, January 5, 2013 7:42:44 PM(UTC)
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Anyone see Dungy and Harrison break it down at the half?

"This is what makes Aaron Rodgers the playmaker he is. He has Finley open underneath, but he doesn't want that 5 yards. He wants Nelson deep on a triple move."
Offline TheKanataThrilla  
#52 Posted : Saturday, January 5, 2013 7:51:50 PM(UTC)
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nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Anyone see Dungy and Harrison break it down at the half?

"This is what makes Aaron Rodgers the playmaker he is. He has Finley open underneath, but he doesn't want that 5 yards. He wants Nelson deep on a triple move."


He is taking the dump passes to Harris. This is just a sweet added weapon. It is like what we were doing with Green, but this guy seems to pound the Defence a little more when he runs. Slow drives work for me. It scares me the big play shit that we do all the time. It reminds me of old Buffalo Bills football where they won a lot, but they played so fast their defence didn't get much time to rest.

Offline Pack93z  
#53 Posted : Saturday, January 5, 2013 8:34:15 PM(UTC)
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nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
Anyone see Dungy and Harrison break it down at the half?

"This is what makes Aaron Rodgers the playmaker he is. He has Finley open underneath, but he doesn't want that 5 yards. He wants Nelson deep on a triple move."


Agreed... but this is where your logic fails. If Rodgers really only cared about the stats.. he is going to take this mid routes all day long, complete a high percentage, save his body (to chase those records) and just keep rolling up numbers.

In this case... You know if he didn't care about scoring right before half time to possibly ice the game he might take the under route for half the yardage in place of the what 3 yard line.

So.. how is waiting to connect deep really helping his stat chase as you put it? And by the way.. go back and queue some mid career Brett film.. he was going for the homerun on almost every throw.. even if it was risky.
Offline nerdmann  
#54 Posted : Saturday, January 5, 2013 9:10:55 PM(UTC)
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Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
Agreed... but this is where your logic fails. If Rodgers really only cared about the stats.. he is going to take this mid routes all day long, complete a high percentage, save his body (to chase those records) and just keep rolling up numbers.

In this case... You know if he didn't care about scoring right before half time to possibly ice the game he might take the under route for half the yardage in place of the what 3 yard line.

So.. how is waiting to connect deep really helping his stat chase as you put it? And by the way.. go back and queue some mid career Brett film.. he was going for the homerun on almost every throw.. even if it was risky.


I criticized Brett too.

Nice to see all those dump offs to Harris today.
Offline doddpower  
#55 Posted : Saturday, January 5, 2013 9:45:39 PM(UTC)
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nerdmann said: Go to Quoted Post
I criticized Brett too.

Nice to see all those dump offs to Harris today.


Rodgers has been taking the quick and/or check down throws often lately, and has for some time. Regardless of your opinion, this offense is built around the big play. That comes from the coaches down. The system is designed to move the ball down the field, not dink and dunk like some teams do. That aggressive approach, as was stated in the commentary tonight, is what makes Rodgers so dangerous. It's going to result in some sacks sometimes, but it also results in having one of the best offenses in the league, a super bowl championship recently, and back-to-back division titles. You may not like it, but unfortunately you're not an NFL coach designing a system. If McCarthy wanted more of a true west coast type of offense, I'm sure he would make it happen. That is obviously not the case. Most the plays are designed to look medium to deep first, and then check down if Rodgers has enough time. That's the biggest issue with dumping the ball off most the time is the quick pressure that forces Rodgers to scramble, undoubtedly making it more difficult to see the entire field. Fortunately, Rodgers is as good as any in doing so, though.

Offline wpr  
#56 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2013 9:16:15 AM(UTC)
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Sitting at the game gives you a perspective you can not see on tv. All night long I watched Aaron Rodgers throwing to guys working themselves into the open. You can see it at the stadium 5 seconds before the throw. So while you sit on your butt watching the tv nerdmann complaining that he is going deep too much there are guys getting open and there is no reason not throw get the ball to them.
Offline wpr  
#57 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2013 10:48:11 AM(UTC)
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Here is the break down on Aaron Rodgers attempted passes as reported by NFL.com.
Quote:

• 1st Quarter
1-10-GB 29 (9:20) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 18-R.Cobb to GB 36 for 7 yards (33-J.Sanford).
3-1-GB 38 (8:25) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to 26-D.Harris.
2-8-GB 33 (4:06) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 26-D.Harris pushed ob at GB 49 for 16 yards (33-J.Sanford).
2-9- (3:14) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 88-J.Finley to MIN 40 for 10 yards (52-C.Greenway, 50-E.Henderson).
2-6-MIN 36 (2:22) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 26-D.Harris to MIN 24 for 12 yards (26-A.Winfield; 50-E.Henderson).
2-11-MIN 25 (1:10) (No Huddle) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 25-R.Grant to MIN 9 for 16 yards (33-J.Sanford).
Deep 0 Short 6 Sack 0

• 2nd Quarter
2-2-GB 44 (12:23) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 26-D.Harris to MIN 49 for 7 yards (52-C.Greenway).
2-11- (11:12) (No Huddle) 12-A.Rodgers sacked at GB 42 for -8 yards (69-J.Allen).
3-19-GB 42 (10:34) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 85-G.Jennings to MIN 45 for 13 yards (22-H.Smith).
2-6-GB 31 (7:53) (No Huddle) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 83-T.Crabtree to GB 41 for 10 yards (52-C.Greenway, 50-E.Henderson).
1-10-GB 41 (7:17) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass deep right to 89-J.Jones to MIN 39 for 20 yards (22-H.Smith).
2-8-MIN 37 (6:10) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 89-J.Jones to MIN 34 for 3 yards (20-C.Cook, 26-A.Winfield).
3-5-MIN 34 (5:26) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep right to 87-J.Nelson.
4-5-MIN 34 (5:20) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 85-G.Jennings pushed ob at MIN 2 for 32 yards (41-M.Raymond).
2-1-MIN 1 (4:09) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left to 88-J.Finley.
1-10-GB 38 (1:48) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 87-J.Nelson to MIN 40 for 22 yards (52-C.Greenway).
1-10-MIN 40 (1:23) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 85-G.Jennings to MIN 26 for 14 yards (22-H.Smith).
1-10-MIN 26 (:56) (No Huddle) 12-A.Rodgers pass deep right to 87-J.Nelson pushed ob at MIN 3 for 23 yards (24-A.Jefferson).
1-3-MIN 3 (:49) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to 87-J.Nelson.
Deep 3 Short 9 Sack 1

• 3rd Quarter
3-2-GB 28 (13:58) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 89-J.Jones to GB 37 for 9 yards (24-A.Jefferson).
1-10-GB 37 (13:28) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers sacked at GB 33 for -4 yards (97-E.Griffen).
3-4-GB 43 (12:12) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 89-J.Jones to MIN 38 for 19 yards (22-H.Smith, 50-E.Henderson) [69-J.Allen].
1-10-MIN 38 (11:36) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 26-D.Harris to MIN 34 for 4 yards (50-E.Henderson).
2-6-MIN 34 (11:01) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 26-D.Harris to MIN 20 for 14 yards (22-H.Smith).
2-4-MIN 14 (9:45) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short right to 30-J.Kuhn.
3-4-MIN 14 (9:35) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to 88-J.Finley (22-H.Smith).
1-9-MIN 9 (9:32) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 30-J.Kuhn for 9 yards,
3-15-GB 40 (2:38) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left to 18-R.Cobb.
Deep 0 Short 8 Sack 1

• 4th Quarter
3-4-GB 14 (14:18) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep left to 85-G.Jennings.
3-9-MIN 38 (12:39) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep right to 87-J.Nelson.

1-10-GB 31 (10:40) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 85-G.Jennings to GB 33 for 2 yards (20-C.Cook).
2-8-GB 33 (10:02) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep middle to 85-G.Jennings (98-L.Guion) [69-J.Allen].
3-8-GB 33 (9:57) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 30-J.Kuhn to GB 39 for 6 yards (52-C.Greenway).
3-8-GB 45 (5:03) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers sacked at GB 33 for -12 yards (99-C.Ballard).
3-5-GB 25 (3:25) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short left to 87-J.Nelson to GB 31 for 6 yards (24-A.Jefferson).
2-12-GB 29 (2:00) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 82-R.Taylor to GB 29 for no gain (20-C.Cook).
Deep 3 Short 4 Sack 1

Totals:
Deep 6 Short 27 Sack 3

Deep pass results:
2nd Q 20 yard gain/ Incomplete / 23 yard gain
4th Q 3 Incomplete

Down and distance when Sacked:
2nd & 11
1st & 10
3rd & 8


6 deep passes out of 33. (9 out of 36 is you assume all sacks where going to be deep passes.) This hardly looks like a guy who is loading up for the deep passes all the time.

On two of the sacks they needed a little more than a short dunk. It is stupid to throw the ball 5 yards when you need 8 and hope the receiver gets the rest of the yards unless he is totally open like Harris was a couple of times.

3 of the incomplete deep passes were in the 4th Q when the game was more or less already determined. One can argue that GB was still trying to keep their foot on the petal and push the ball down field and score again like fans scream for all the time.
One of the deep passes was just before the half and like pack93 says time dictated the need to throw deep.
I am sure everyone but a select special few understand that teams, all teams need to take a few shots down field during the game. The only way to stretch the defense and make room of the underneath game is to keep the safeties back and you do that by sending receivers deep on a consistent basis and then actually throwing them the ball some of the time.
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DoddPower on 1/6/2013(UTC)
Offline zombieslayer  
#58 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2013 11:47:14 AM(UTC)
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I've said it before and I'll say it again - football evolves. You cannot run Bart Starr's offense and expect it to do well today. You cannot run Joe Montana's offense and expect it to do well today.

Things keep changing. The WCO is outdated (but its concepts are used by all 32 teams). If you run a strictly WCO, enjoy watching the Playoffs from home.
Offline nerdmann  
#59 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2013 12:14:20 PM(UTC)
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doddpower said: Go to Quoted Post
Rodgers has been taking the quick and/or check down throws often lately, and has for some time. Regardless of your opinion, this offense is built around the big play. That comes from the coaches down. The system is designed to move the ball down the field, not dink and dunk like some teams do. That aggressive approach, as was stated in the commentary tonight, is what makes Rodgers so dangerous. It's going to result in some sacks sometimes, but it also results in having one of the best offenses in the league, a super bowl championship recently, and back-to-back division titles. You may not like it, but unfortunately you're not an NFL coach designing a system. If McCarthy wanted more of a true west coast type of offense, I'm sure he would make it happen. That is obviously not the case. Most the plays are designed to look medium to deep first, and then check down if Rodgers has enough time. That's the biggest issue with dumping the ball off most the time is the quick pressure that forces Rodgers to scramble, undoubtedly making it more difficult to see the entire field. Fortunately, Rodgers is as good as any in doing so, though.



I agree, this offense is built around the big play. Part of it is MM, it's not just AR.

They both want to obliterate Favre from the record books.

They also know that they have to start playing "for real" as the playoffs approach. Hence you have a team that underperforms all season, then "starts peaking at the right time."
Offline nerdmann  
#60 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2013 12:16:14 PM(UTC)
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wpr said: Go to Quoted Post
Here is the break down on Aaron Rodgers attempted passes as reported by NFL.com.


6 deep passes out of 33. (9 out of 36 is you assume all sacks where going to be deep passes.) This hardly looks like a guy who is loading up for the deep passes all the time.

On two of the sacks they needed a little more than a short dunk. It is stupid to throw the ball 5 yards when you need 8 and hope the receiver gets the rest of the yards unless he is totally open like Harris was a couple of times.

3 of the incomplete deep passes were in the 4th Q when the game was more or less already determined. One can argue that GB was still trying to keep their foot on the petal and push the ball down field and score again like fans scream for all the time.
One of the deep passes was just before the half and like pack93 says time dictated the need to throw deep.
I am sure everyone but a select special few understand that teams, all teams need to take a few shots down field during the game. The only way to stretch the defense and make room of the underneath game is to keep the safeties back and you do that by sending receivers deep on a consistent basis and then actually throwing them the ball some of the time.


Drink every time the announcers say "coverage sack."
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