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Offline Pack93z  
#76 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 9:00:18 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
It doesn't matter what the scheme is, if the pass rush leaves run lanes open. Three weeks ago, there was no rush discipline and MN beat us, two weeks ago, they have the rush discipline and we win, this game no lane discipline and again we lose. I give much of the credit in that to SF. They blocked us out of our lanes as much as we rushed ourselves out of them. Our edges get to far upfield and our middle doesn't get enough. We had the same problem back with the 4-3. the center got no push and the edges go up field making huge escape lanes for QB.


It all comes down to discipline.. and we lack it in several areas, most notably on the edge. A guy like Walden gives the edge way to often. That is the overall season and not just this game.

But beyond that.. we just got beat at the point of attack, their offensive line simply beat our front. Big physical lines will exploit the 3-4 at times, the is one of the knocks on a 3-4, if your backers are not physical enough across the boards or disciplined enough, they will get exposed.

We got beat in that match up, their offensive line beat our front. And it was enough to beat us on Saturday.

This is my opinion, this league is circular in offensive schemes, things are tried, if they succeed they become popular and copied until the defense figures it out and how to stop it. The read option, especially out of the pistol, is the latest newcomer to the scene. Defenses the last couple years have seen the league torched by the pass, teams build to stop the pass. They scheme to stop the pass. And then someone exposes the underbelly of these concepts, and it becomes a fad.

The real answer, IMO, is to build a defense that can play multiple fronts with strong cover corners behind it. Just like the offense, defenses go through cycles. 3-4 to 4-3 and back to 3-4 as the dominate fronts. Look no further than the Packers.. 80's were 3-4, 90' through the most of the next decade 4-3, then back to the 3-4. Both have weaknesses and strengths, but I think to many times a DC gets too married to one or the other. I personally think, to be successful in this league, you have to be able to play a multiple front defense based on match ups.

That is my disappointment with Capers.. I anticipated a guy that would bring more variations to the table and make adjustments in game a little more fluidly and rapidly. That said, I refuse to lay all the blame at his feet when he is playing at least 3 or 4 deep down the depth chart at several positions and still help carry this team this deep into the season.

Example.. the Cap run off the right edge.. Walden got sucked in and pinned, and Jones failed to read and cover the gap. Both of these guys are backup players being forces up the rotation. Both are good players, but have weaknesses at this point in their games. Walden is undisciplined as they come.. and this has been exposed over and over from 2010 on. Go back to a late season Bears game in 2010.. it looked almost identical to this season often. Jones is a first year inside backer that is trying to forget his outside backer mindset, sometimes he gets caught. Is it Capers fault that we lost DJ and Bishop? Is it his fault that we lost Perry whom is a better edge player?

No.

I think Capers is a good defensive mind, and I refuse to lay all the blame upon him. However, if they choose to part company, a fresh mind might be welcomed.

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thanks Post received 2 applause.
Yerko on 1/14/2013(UTC), Gaycandybacon on 1/14/2013(UTC)
Offline wpr  
#77 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 9:03:23 AM(UTC)
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If that is how you see the game unfolding I am ok with that.
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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#78 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 11:22:46 AM(UTC)
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Either way I think we'll be a better defense next year. Dom capers or not. We need trenches players. It's pretty obvious that's what we're gonna look for in this draft. I would go 2 Offensive lineman, 2 Linebackers, and 3 defensive lineman. Ted Thompson will probably trade and stuff like he normally does, so that's just based on what I think with the 7 picks we got now. I think we got depth at the offensive line position. As in, Barclay, Lang, and EDS stepped up this season. But we need a backup for Newhouse, if we get that early in the draft we'll be good there. Along with the defensive line we need to replace Pickett, and get a backup for Raji. Hopefully Worthy will recover and maybe Daniels develops and overcomes his size disadvantage. Finally we need a better backup for Perry, and another MLB to backup, Jones, Smith, and Bishop. Hopefully Jones will develop into a better MLB next year. Certainly Bishops presence on the field will be a huge boost next season, we've missed that guy.
Offline doddpower  
#79 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 11:47:30 AM(UTC)
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Can anyone update me on what type of injury Worthy actually sustained? I must have missed further information on exactly what his knee injury was. Was it just a sprain, ACL, etc?
Offline DakotaT  
#80 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 12:22:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doddpower Go to Quoted Post
Can anyone update me on what type of injury Worthy actually sustained? I must have missed further information on exactly what his knee injury was. Was it just a sprain, ACL, etc?


I looked around and couldn't find an official report. The best info I found was that they were waiting for the swelling to go down for a prognosis, but I didn't find anything else.
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Offline Pack93z  
#81 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 12:25:42 PM(UTC)
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To illustrate the notion that our interior line defensive line / middle linebacker play wasn't the issue against the run this year.

Between the tackles as a whole.. we gave up 4.12 yards per carry.

On the edges, we have up 6.67 yards per carry over the course of the entire season and postseason.


League average per carry allowed = 4.26.

So between the tackles.. our rush defense wasn't that poor, actually above average.. off the edge.. yikes.

And just to be fair.. both edges were guilty.. one at 6.89 YPC.. the Other 6.5.


Now in terms of pass rush.. no they get little push as most 3-4 blocker consumers don't.
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Offline Yerko  
#82 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 12:32:01 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
Finally we need a better backup for Perry, and another MLB to backup, Jones, Smith, and Bishop. Hopefully Jones will develop into a better MLB next year. Certainly Bishops presence on the field will be a huge boost next season, we've missed that guy.


Are you saying that AJ Hawk is not a Packer next season?

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Offline wpr  
#83 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 12:37:19 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: doddpower Go to Quoted Post
Can anyone update me on what type of injury Worthy actually sustained? I must have missed further information on exactly what his knee injury was. Was it just a sprain, ACL, etc?


rotoworld:


Quote:
Latest News
Recent News
Packers DE Jerel Worthy's season-ending knee injury wasn't as serious as initially feared and is not expected to require surgery.
"From what I know, they said it was like a severe knee bruise," said Worthy. "Just something that would have really affected me if I would have went out there and played over the last few weeks." Worthy does not believe the injury will cause him to miss any significant portion of the team's offseason workouts. Jan 14 - 12:15 PM
Source: Green Bay Press-Gazette
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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Offline RajiRoar  
#84 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 12:38:34 PM(UTC)
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Is Capers contract up?


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Offline Zero2Cool  
#85 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 12:48:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RajiRoar Go to Quoted Post
Is Capers contract up?


I just spent a couple minutes looking this and couldn't find the answer so I was gonna ask here ... what was he originally signed with? I only found that he and the Packers game to an agreement, but not details. I think a four year deal, which I believe would mean he's up for a contract extension.

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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#86 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 1:16:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: RajiRoar Go to Quoted Post
Is Capers contract up?


Yes I believe so.

Latest I can find was he was extended for a year which would take him through the 2012 season.

Source
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Offline doddpower  
#87 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 1:48:50 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post


That's fantastic news. I still think Worthy can be an effective player, especially on the inside on passing downs, and even more so in the traditional 4-3 DT. Perhaps he won't be an impact starter, but as long as he stays motivated, he should be able to be solid depth, at worse.

Offline DakotaT  
#88 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 1:49:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Yerko Go to Quoted Post
Are you saying that AJ Hawk is not a Packer next season?



I think it depends on how much cap can be saved, because the guy is never going to be better than steady. The 3-4 features the linebackers, and if you have mediocrity at any of the positions than it carries on throughout the defense. I think Manning was drafted to replace Hawk, now whether he will be ready or not by next season remains to be seen. Manning was hurt all through training camp last year, but was a good contributor on special teams - hope he's given a chance next year.
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Offline wpr  
#89 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 2:21:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
I think it depends on how much cap can be saved, because the guy is never going to be better than steady. The 3-4 features the linebackers, and if you have mediocrity at any of the positions than it carries on throughout the defense. I think Manning was drafted to replace Hawk, now whether he will be ready or not by next season remains to be seen. Manning was hurt all through training camp last year, but was a good contributor on special teams - hope he's given a chance next year.


Salary aside, if they have CM3, Perry on the outside and Bishop inside they can afford to have Hawk run around out there.

I am not a big Hawk fan one way or the other. He does some things adequately and other things not so well.

rotoworld wrote:
A.J. Hawk Linebacker 3/3/2011: Signed a five-year, $33.75 million contract. The deal included an $8 million signing bonus and a $1.8 million roster bonus in the first season. Annual $250,000 workout bonuses are available in years two through five. 2012: $4.4 million (+ $300,000 roster bonus), 2013: $4.9 million (+ $300,000 roster bonus), 2014: $4.9 million (+ $800,000 roster bonus), 2015: $5.4 million (+ $800,000 roster bonus), 2016: Free Agent


he is worth 5.2 mil plus 1.6 for his signing bonus on the 2013 cap.
If they release him they will have 3 years of cap to eat.
link

Quote:
D.J. Smith Linebacker 7/29/2011: Signed a four-year, $2.143 million contract. The deal included a $103,152 signing bonus. 2012: $465,000, 2013: $555,000, 2014: $645,000, 2015: Free Agent


Desmond Bishop Linebacker 1/4/2011: Signed a four-year, $19.05 million contract. The deal contains $5 million guaranteed and $2 million in roster and workout bonuses. 2012: $3.001 million, 2013: $3.464 million, 2014: $3.522 million, 2015: Free Agent
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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thanks Post received 1 applause.
Pack93z on 1/14/2013(UTC)
Offline Gaycandybacon  
#90 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 2:39:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Yerko Go to Quoted Post
Are you saying that AJ Hawk is not a Packer next season?



I forgot his name. Oops! But... I would like to see him gone. He's degressed since the superbowl year tremendously. I could say he hasn't been good since the 09' season to be honest. He may never be injured but the guy isn't that fast and pretty much a liability in coverage.
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