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Offline Gaycandybacon  
#91 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 2:41:08 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
Salary aside, if they have CM3, Perry on the outside and Bishop inside they can afford to have Hawk run around out there.

I am not a big Hawk fan one way or the other. He does some things adequately and other things not so well.



he is worth 5.2 mil plus 1.6 for his signing bonus on the 2013 cap.
If they release him they will have 3 years of cap to eat.
link



Trading Hawk is the only way of getting rid of him at this point then huh?
Offline Porforis  
#92 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 2:46:33 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mortfini Go to Quoted Post
Having said that you don't know how this game would have went if we had a few more players back
Worthy
Perry


At best, I'd say we would have been gashed for 100 less yards and that's giving a LOT of credit to Worthy and Perry. And even then, it'd be pretty pitiful. We were the healthiest we've been all season, if we're going to use injuries as an excuse then this is probably the worst time of year to use it.
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Offline wpr  
#93 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 2:54:19 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
Trading Hawk is the only way of getting rid of him at this point then huh?


good luck with that.
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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Offline wpr  
#94 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 2:57:04 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
I forgot his name. Oops! But... I would like to see him gone. He's degressed since the superbowl year tremendously. I could say he hasn't been good since the 09' season to be honest. He may never be injured but the guy isn't that fast and pretty much a liability in coverage.


really?

Code:

Season     Comb Total Ast     Sck     PDef     Int         
2012     120     81     39     3.0     0     --             
2011     84     53     31     1.5     3     --             
2010     111     72     39     0.5     10     3              
2009     89     67     22     1.0     2     2             
2008     86     67     19     3.0     1     --             
2007     105     78     27     1.0     4     1             
2006     119     82     37     3.5     6     2     
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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Offline Pack93z  
#95 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 3:07:51 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: DakotaT Go to Quoted Post
I think it depends on how much cap can be saved, because the guy is never going to be better than steady. The 3-4 features the linebackers, and if you have mediocrity at any of the positions than it carries on throughout the defense. I think Manning was drafted to replace Hawk, now whether he will be ready or not by next season remains to be seen. Manning was hurt all through training camp last year, but was a good contributor on special teams - hope he's given a chance next year.


I don't think there is anyway the Hawk is not a Packer next season, for several reasons.

1. This was his best year in Green Bay to date as a whole. He has physical limitations in his game, speed mostly, but he is and always has been as consistent as we have. I am not his biggest fan when looking at value in terms of his play vs his contract, but the guy makes plays.

I would love to have a ass kicker like a young Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis.. or a Bowman. Bishop was missed this season.. he has that element to his game, he just lacks blue chip speed.


2. 4.8 Million of cap dollars to be absorbed yet.


Hawk is being used as a scapegoat this season.. hasn't always been the case, but the guy produced this year.

Edited by user Monday, January 14, 2013 3:34:59 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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porky88 on 1/14/2013(UTC)
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#96 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 3:29:22 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon Go to Quoted Post
Trading Hawk is the only way of getting rid of him at this point then huh?


Trade or cut makes no difference. We would gain about 2 million in cap space if we move him before next season.
The world needs ditch diggers to Danny!!!
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Pack93z on 1/14/2013(UTC)
Offline Pack93z  
#97 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 3:32:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Trade or cut makes no difference. We would gain about 2 million in cap space if we move him before next season.


Bingo.

Cap number 7,050,000 - Cap hit to move him.. 4,800,000
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#98 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 3:35:38 PM(UTC)
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For those saying or thinking that we should let Capers go and move back to 4-3. Main question. Can Clay play MLB? Because he is not going to be a DE in the 4-3.

The world needs ditch diggers to Danny!!!
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Offline play2win  
#99 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 3:57:50 PM(UTC)
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It really is amazing to me how poorly we are equipped to play the 3-4 defense, and how much better equipped we currently are to play a 4-3 as things stand today. Capers has made some really poor calls with our defense, and especially so when it mattered most over these past two seasons. He was the DC for the worst defense in NFL history.

In his defense, I will say Ted Thompson didn't get the job completely finished when it came to the personnel he has had to work with. Yes, we drafted 6 on his side of the ball last year. However, there was just so much more to do. A GM cannot continually count on first year players to turn one segment or group around. That is what he did with our pass rush, and he failed to adjust after losing his prize piece, Perry, for the season in week 4. He should have signed some insurance opposite Matthews, especially knowing that area of his defense is what hurt the secondary most the previous year.

We should make the switch to the 4-3, like, pronto!

Perry should flourish at DE. Make Matthews your WSLB, the playmaker. Hawk, opposite at SSLB with Bish in the middle. If Hawk proves unable to work out there as a starter, then we'll have a very high priced, experienced backup - but I think he'd be fine with this switch, maybe better. Draft another DE or two, and a good backup NT and we should be set.

If I were Ted, I would load up on both lines this draft, and allow for either a premiere WR or LB talent to be an early choice weighed against the line talent available should one fall.

3-4 defenses call for bigger players than we have, and faster players who are better in coverage as well. To me, Perry is no sure thing as a pass rushing LB in a 3-4 with the coverage responsibilities. Pickett won't last forever, especially if this staff refuses to get the players here for a reasonable rotation. Raji has no backup. None. And, what do we really have at DE?

3 years after winning SB XLV, maybe we will get a pass rush and a more stout defense. Switching to a 4-3 could really help. Can Capers do that effectively? Probably. Then again, maybe not. But, whoever's responsibility this winds up being is going to need more than what Ted gave Capers in 2011 and 2012.
Offline play2win  
#100 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 3:59:57 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post


Hawk is being used as a scapegoat this season.. hasn't always been the case, but the guy produced this year.


I think he was better than many people may think.
Offline Porforis  
#101 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 4:12:49 PM(UTC)
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I think a sour ending has soured our view of many people. During the season, the only coaching-related complaints I heard were at McCarthy for not running enough slants and screens, campen for O line issues. Now, people are questioning Ted Thompson for not drafting big enough defenders, McCarthy's killer instinct, Capers for not adapting well enough, etc. While there's a lot of truth to the complaints, a lot of this is just frustration from this ugly, ugly defeat. There's problems that NEED to be fixed, but the only coaching change I really think might work is if we get rid of Capers for a very good D coordinator that would be willing to run a similar scheme. And I don't think that person exists. Beyond that, let Ted keep drafting (he got a lot of good picks this last draft, sadly several got hurt) and tattoo "Slant!" under one of McCarthy's eyelids, "Run!" under the other and I think we're in good shape.
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Offline Cheesey  
#102 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 4:26:26 PM(UTC)
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What happened to the WR going across the middle? Driver always did that, and made some big gains. I don't know why they stopped doing that. It kept the D off of Rodgers, as he would get the ball out fast.
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Offline play2win  
#103 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 5:20:20 PM(UTC)
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I didn't hear it, but my wife was listening to LeRoy Butler today, and he said after reviewing the film that Capers should be fired. Said SF ran nothing new, and that our defense was really unprepared and made no adjustments at the half.

I hold Butler's opinion in very high regard. Would love to see LeRoy take over as DC!
Offline RajiRoar  
#104 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 5:21:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
For those saying or thinking that we should let Capers go and move back to 4-3. Main question. Can Clay play MLB? Because he is not going to be a DE in the 4-3.



We could run that funky 4-3, 3-4 hybrid that Seattle runs. It's what clay ran in college.

And if Cullen Jenkins gets cut, he would be the PERFECT DE in the scheme (he has exp as a 4-3 end with us), like Red Bryant.

Problem is, outside of Pete Carroll and Gus Bradly (who is up for HC gigs) I don't know anyone who has exp with the system.

... A guy can dream...


MintBaconDrivel

Dec, 11, 2012 - FOREVER!
Offline doddpower  
#105 Posted : Monday, January 14, 2013 5:42:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
For those saying or thinking that we should let Capers go and move back to 4-3. Main question. Can Clay play MLB? Because he is not going to be a DE in the 4-3.



Yeah, if you read my earlier longer post, I stated that CM3 would be the main wildcard in a switch to a 4-3. Other than that, I think the Packers personnel is much better suited for a 4-3. Perhaps CM3 alone would make the argument to stay with a 3-4, I don't know. I assume he would be an OLB on some plays, and rushing the passer on others. It would take some creativity. Nick Perry is much better suited as a 4-3 DE, and he is almost identical to CM3 in size, with the exception of weighing ~10 more lbs (which who knows how accurate weights ever are). Shea McClellin, 4-3 defensive end drafted by the Bears in the 1st round last year, is basically the same size as both CM3 and Perry, and he had a nice season (although he was mostly projected as a 3-4 OLB). Ositadimma "Osi" Umenyiora is 6'3 and 255 lbs as well according to Wikipedia, although it appears as if he's bigger, and I don't think many would argue that he fits the mold of a 4-3 DE fairly well.

The point is, it would take some creativity by the defensive coordinator, but I would think the flexibility of moving CM3 around could work to the defenses advantage, honestly. I don't really buy into the argument that it's impossible for CM3 to be a DE in a 4-3 system. He basically does the same thing on passing downs already, and the minority of base package calls would just require some creativity.
 
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