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Offline wpr  
#16 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 12:42:37 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
MM doesn't want to drain time off the clock. He wants to score quickly, so that he can score more often.

Unfortunately this leaves us at a disadvantage when there are offensive players like Kaepernick you want to keep off the field.


I think if you polled 100 HCs from the NFL and NCAA and asked them if they preferred to score in 2-3 plays but only used up a min off the clock or have the ball for 10 minutes where you may or may not score and the score could be only a FG, 100% of the coaches would chose to score quickly.

But that is just my guess. Big Grin
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Offline PackerTraxx  
#17 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:51:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
I think if you polled 100 HCs from the NFL and NCAA and asked them if they preferred to score in 2-3 plays but only used up a min off the clock or have the ball for 10 minutes where you may or may not score and the score could be only a FG, 100% of the coaches would chose to score quickly.

But that is just my guess. Big Grin


I don't see that as a fair comparison, anybody would take a TD over a field goal, unless they can't count! The question should be "would you sooner take 2-3 plays or 10 minutes to score the same amount of points on a drive". Unless you're behind with a limited amount of time I believe 100% would opt for 10 minutes.
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Offline wpr  
#18 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:55:35 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx Go to Quoted Post
I don't see that as a fair comparison, anybody would take a TD over a field goal, unless they can't count! The question should be "would you sooner take 2-3 plays or 10 minutes to score the same amount of points on a drive". Unless you're behind with a limited amount of time I believe 100% would opt for 10 minutes.


It is fair because there is no guarantee you can score even if you have the ball for 10 minutes. Over the years we have seen many times were GB (and other teams) had the ball for 7-8 minutes and got shut out.

So the point is to take the points no matter how quick you get them. hanging on to the ball is no magic solution at all.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#19 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:57:58 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
I think if you polled 100 HCs from the NFL and NCAA and asked them if they preferred to score in 2-3 plays but only used up a min off the clock or have the ball for 10 minutes where you may or may not score and the score could be only a FG, 100% of the coaches would chose to score quickly.

But that is just my guess. Big Grin


If my team is up by 8 points and there is 12 minutes or less to go, I'll take the 10 minute drive that may or may not yield a field goal attempt. Especially if it's the Packers defense.

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macbob on 1/17/2013(UTC)
Offline PackerTraxx  
#20 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:11:42 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
It is fair because there is no guarantee you can score even if you have the ball for 10 minutes. Over the years we have seen many times were GB (and other teams) had the ball for 7-8 minutes and got shut out.

So the point is to take the points no matter how quick you get them. hanging on to the ball is no magic solution at all.


I've also seen GB go 3 and out... I'll take the points not matter how long it takes.
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Offline wpr  
#21 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:22:28 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx Go to Quoted Post
I've also seen GB go 3 and out... I'll take the points not matter how long it takes.


In my scenario the only sure points are the quick ones. It is not some evil plot by Mike McCarthy to blow away all the offensive records.

I will take the points too. long drive or quick one. There is nothing wrong with scoring quickly. There is no virtue to plodding along but there is a greater risk of not coring by getting on 4 yards an attempt.
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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#22 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 3:50:13 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Defense Rankings (of who played atleast 25% snaps) from ProFootballFocus - link to how they grade.

3 - 4 DE out of 32
  • 7th B.J. Raji
  • 13th Mike Neal
  • 32nd Jerel Worthy



3 - 4 OLB out of 34
  • 2nd Clay Matthews
  • 28th Dezman Moses
  • 34th Erik Walden



DT/NT out of 85
  • 37th Ryan Pickett



ILB out of 53
  • 10th Brad Jones
  • 20th A.J. Hawk
  • 28th D.J. Smith



CB out of 113
  • 3rd Casey Hayward
  • 12th Sam Shields
  • 40th Davon House
  • 60th Tramon Williams



S out of 88
  • 17th Morgan Burnett
  • 32nd Jerron McMillian
  • 37th Charles Woodson
  • 50th M.D. Jennings


Some real interesting things here. Packers had the worst 3-4 OLB and the worst 3-4 DE. Although what it really means is that we had the worst full time player at those positions. There were many worse players that didn't see the snaps that ours did. Packers staff has to look at last years draft and smile. Because their top pick would have been playing instead of the poorly rated 3-4 LBs and their #2 pick was good enough to log a lot of snaps, but bad enough to be poorly rated. Only way to go is up or injury...

Many are looking for big things from DJ Smith but he was rated only average and below Hawk, who many don't believe in.

Williams being the #60 CB is a big concern to me. I don't care how many big name receivers he is locked up on. He can't rank that bad and take up the salary he does.
blank
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#23 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 6:16:18 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
Some real interesting things here. Packers had the worst 3-4 OLB and the worst 3-4 DE. Although what it really means is that we had the worst full time player at those positions. There were many worse players that didn't see the snaps that ours did. Packers staff has to look at last years draft and smile. Because their top pick would have been playing instead of the poorly rated 3-4 LBs and their #2 pick was good enough to log a lot of snaps, but bad enough to be poorly rated. Only way to go is up or injury...

Many are looking for big things from DJ Smith but he was rated only average and below Hawk, who many don't believe in.

Williams being the #60 CB is a big concern to me. I don't care how many big name receivers he is locked up on. He can't rank that bad and take up the salary he does.


There is seriously something wrong with this ranking system. Casey is not the 3rd best CB, neither he nor House are better than Tramon. Or McMillian better than Woodson. With rankings like that, it seriously questions any validity of that sight.
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Offline nerdmann  
#24 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2013 9:24:53 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
I think if you polled 100 HCs from the NFL and NCAA and asked them if they preferred to score in 2-3 plays but only used up a min off the clock or have the ball for 10 minutes where you may or may not score and the score could be only a FG, 100% of the coaches would chose to score quickly.

But that is just my guess. Big Grin


How'd that work out?
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Offline Packers_Finland  
#25 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 2:38:14 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
There is seriously something wrong with this ranking system. Casey is not the 3rd best CB, neither he nor House are better than Tramon. Or McMillian better than Woodson. With rankings like that, it seriously questions any validity of that sight.


How do you know? Do you watch every snap of every single NFL game multiple times? These guys do.

I thought Hayward was our best DB this year. He was spectacular. I'm not going to go as far as to say he's definitely better than Tramon, but he was better than him this year for sure. Hayward had more INTs, more defended passes, less TDs allowed (at zero) while playing considerably less snaps than Tramon. Tramon was %-wise targeted more often, and allowed more catches and yards per snap than Hayward. Though, one must consider that Tramon was covering the opponent's best guy more often than Hayward.

From what I've read (they have good articles too where they explain a lot of their grading and how that grade manifested itself during the games) it's a very reliable site in terms of evaluating players' performances. I don't think they know everything or have the perfect system for grading player performance but it's better than any other site I've seen.
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Zero2Cool on 1/18/2013(UTC)
Offline wpr  
#26 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 6:40:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: nerdmann Go to Quoted Post
How'd that work out?


excellent. Thanks for asking.
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Offline gbguy20  
#27 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 6:45:30 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
There is seriously something wrong with this ranking system. Casey is not the 3rd best CB, neither he nor House are better than Tramon. Or McMillian better than Woodson. With rankings like that, it seriously questions any validity of that sight.


http://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/

I trust their rankings much more than anything else I've come across
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#28 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 7:20:41 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Packers_Finland Go to Quoted Post
How do you know? Do you watch every snap of every single NFL game multiple times? These guys do.

I thought Hayward was our best DB this year. He was spectacular. I'm not going to go as far as to say he's definitely better than Tramon, but he was better than him this year for sure. Hayward had more INTs, more defended passes, less TDs allowed (at zero) while playing considerably less snaps than Tramon. Tramon was %-wise targeted more often, and allowed more catches and yards per snap than Hayward. Though, one must consider that Tramon was covering the opponent's best guy more often than Hayward.

From what I've read (they have good articles too where they explain a lot of their grading and how that grade manifested itself during the games) it's a very reliable site in terms of evaluating players' performances. I don't think they know everything or have the perfect system for grading player performance but it's better than any other site I've seen.


Do you really need to watch every single snap to see that Hayward was not the 3rd best CB in the ENTIRE NFL? He was the 3rd best CB on this team. Thus being the NB. He had his shot while Shields was down and guess what. He didn't keep the #2 spot. Sammy took it back.

These guys, write trying to justify their site, yes they have interesting articles, but they are not the bible. If they knew that much, they would not be working on a website, they would have a job for a NFL team. Hayward, had the easiest job of our CB, he is surrounded by more help. I'll take the expertise of the coached of the Packers, over some geeks trying to make their site seem valid.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#29 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 7:26:33 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Do you really need to watch every single snap to see that Hayward was not the 3rd best CB in the ENTIRE NFL? He was the 3rd best CB on this team.


Casey Hawyard had the third best season in the NFL, which is not saying he is the 3rd best CB in the NFL. Massive difference there, massive.

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Offline Pack93z  
#30 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 7:29:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Packers_Finland Go to Quoted Post
How do you know? Do you watch every snap of every single NFL game multiple times? These guys do.

I thought Hayward was our best DB this year. He was spectacular. I'm not going to go as far as to say he's definitely better than Tramon, but he was better than him this year for sure. Hayward had more INTs, more defended passes, less TDs allowed (at zero) while playing considerably less snaps than Tramon. Tramon was %-wise targeted more often, and allowed more catches and yards per snap than Hayward. Though, one must consider that Tramon was covering the opponent's best guy more often than Hayward.

From what I've read (they have good articles too where they explain a lot of their grading and how that grade manifested itself during the games) it's a very reliable site in terms of evaluating players' performances. I don't think they know everything or have the perfect system for grading player performance but it's better than any other site I've seen.


Here is one thing that isn't taken into account in the rankings.. Hayward played most of the year in the slot, where you have more over help than the edge. You can gamble a bit more thus you should have more opportunities for picks... hence why they tried to always put Woodson in the slot.. allow his play making ability surface.

Not taking anything away from his game and performance this season.. just noting that PFF does a decent job overall IMO.. they don't always factor in the roles each player on each team takes.
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