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Offline Jlapp  
#31 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 7:43:23 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
exactly. 1 player who could put them over the top on the DL. It would have been nice to have Julius Peppers to complement Raji on the line and CM3 in pressuring the QB.


Where would the $14m/year it took the Bear's to sign him come from? It isn't like the packers could have just added him without doing anything else.

Not to mention Peppers was probably the only top FA that has come close to meeting expectations. I'd even say he is vastly over overpaid for what he provides. Most rarely end up as good deals for the team that signs them.
Offline steveishere  
#32 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 8:04:00 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jlapp Go to Quoted Post
Where would the $14m/year it took the Bear's to sign him come from? It isn't like the packers could have just added him without doing anything else.

Not to mention Peppers was probably the only top FA that has come close to meeting expectations. I'd even say he is vastly over overpaid for what he provides. Most rarely end up as good deals for the team that signs them.


One thing to keep in mind with the Peppers signing too is that he was signed during the season there was no salary cap so they basically dumped 20 million of his money into that season which is not really something you would want to do now. That contract would have hurt a lot more if it was signed any other year.
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wpr on 2/18/2013(UTC)
Offline Pack93z  
#33 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 8:28:37 AM(UTC)
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My opinion.. is the economics of the game are much different today than Wolf's era.. at least the part where he set the tone. Reggie White.

Back then, the cap was going to be introduced in 1994 and many were trying to figure it out more so than today when each team has a group dedicated to nothing but managing the cap. I think Wolf was ahead of his time in understanding the economics of the game and thus how we managed to compete salary wise to land White. And honestly, in today's world, a Reggie White talent isn't on the FA market to begin with. Don't even try and compare Peppers, Haynesworth and the likes.

Basically, Wolf was feeding (feasting if you will) off the mismanagement of other teams and collecting talent in a deeper FA pool.

It doesn't diminish the job Wolf did to land talent, but the point is talent was available on the FA market because teams were struggling to understand the impacts of the cap being introduced. Guys like Santana Dotson, Andre Rison, and Eugene Robinson we being cut loose.. where as today, few impact players are on the market each year and they are too expensive for a cap managed team to realistically compete in year in and out. Those three we just a couple of many impact type players to hit the market annually. And yes I know Rison was let loose for other reasons than just cap.

Ted has shown that when talent is on the market with reasonable salaries attached, he becomes engaged in the fray. Sometimes he lands them.. sometimes he doesn't. But it isn't like he hasn't been in the mix for players that could help.

Basically after that babble.. I just don't know how realistic it is to compare the two without factoring in the changes in the economic and management of the rosters and their costs.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline wpr  
#34 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 8:56:08 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: steveishere Go to Quoted Post
One thing to keep in mind with the Peppers signing too is that he was signed during the season there was no salary cap so they basically dumped 20 million of his money into that season which is not really something you would want to do now. That contract would have hurt a lot more if it was signed any other year.


nice point steve.
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Offline wpr  
#35 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 9:23:24 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
My opinion.. is the economics of the game are much different today than Wolf's era.. at least the part where he set the tone. Reggie White.

Back then, the cap was going to be introduced in 1994 and many were trying to figure it out more so than today when each team has a group dedicated to nothing but managing the cap. I think Wolf was ahead of his time in understanding the economics of the game and thus how we managed to compete salary wise to land White. And honestly, in today's world, a Reggie White talent isn't on the FA market to begin with. Don't even try and compare Peppers, Haynesworth and the likes.

Basically, Wolf was feeding (feasting if you will) off the mismanagement of other teams and collecting talent in a deeper FA pool.

It doesn't diminish the job Wolf did to land talent, but the point is talent was available on the FA market because teams were struggling to understand the impacts of the cap being introduced. Guys like Santana Dotson, Andre Rison, and Eugene Robinson we being cut loose.. where as today, few impact players are on the market each year and they are too expensive for a cap managed team to realistically compete in year in and out. Those three we just a couple of many impact type players to hit the market annually. And yes I know Rison was let loose for other reasons than just cap.

Ted has shown that when talent is on the market with reasonable salaries attached, he becomes engaged in the fray. Sometimes he lands them.. sometimes he doesn't. But it isn't like he hasn't been in the mix for players that could help.

Basically after that babble.. I just don't know how realistic it is to compare the two without factoring in the changes in the economic and management of the rosters and their costs.


They certainly were two completely different areas. The game has changed so much both on and off the field. But then that is part of the fun of comparisons. How would Hutson do in the game today? It is fun to speculate.

You hit on one of their differences. Wolf feasted on the mismanagement of other teams. I think Wolf was a little more aggressive then Ted is. Sometimes that is a good thing. Sometimes it bites you in the butt.
There is no doubt when Ted came in GB was in salary cap hell. He did an incredible job of working out of it as quickly as he did. That could taint hi outlook. He probably never wants to get anywhere near that situation again. Thus he is willing to pass on higher priced players.

Keep this in mind. I have said it about teams for more than 20 years. Typically it is more lucrative for a franchise to consistently second than it is for them to pony up for the player or two or three that it takes to put them over the top and win it all. There is very little or no incentive on Ted's part to pick up the tier 1 type FA that they could use to win it all. They sell out every game. The concession stands do huge business. People flock to buy ceremonially stock. The sporting good cloths, jerseys and such, are one of the highest year in and year out. Spending money on quality players will not increase the revenue stream very much. Prob not as much as the expense stream increases.
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Offline PackerTraxx  
#36 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 11:41:12 AM(UTC)
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Therefore both GMs were/are goods ones to have in their time. Wolf was in an era where he could "wheel and deal" and Ted Thompson builds a team for the long term without mortgaging the future.
Why is Jerry Kramer not in the Hall of Fame?
Offline Pack93z  
#37 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 11:45:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
They certainly were two completely different areas. The game has changed so much both on and off the field. But then that is part of the fun of comparisons. How would Hutson do in the game today? It is fun to speculate.


Yepper.. it is fun to speculate. Just throwing in my angle into the thought process. Just I think Wolf played a scared market well.. just as I think Ted used record jumps in the salary cap to help bridge the gap in turning over the roster. He had help via the cap to keep a team competitive in cleaning up the cap issues that Sherman left in his wake.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline warhawk  
#38 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 12:09:41 PM(UTC)
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Even if we had signed a couple big name FA's in the last few years there is no knowing if that would have made the difference.

Our problem has been we had had too many injuries that have added up to weakness' that could be exploited at playoff time.

Who knows if the FA's signed wouldn't have gotten hurt along with what seems like everybody else? Benson was giving the running game a spark and he went down.

Aside from that who else would not be coming back because of cap issues? No way we can keep important core players like so many teams that dip into the high end FA market.

What would this do to the overall depth of the team? Even with all the injuries we have had over the last few years teams like the Bears can't beat us. Why? We're deeper then they are.

San Francisco lost one DL during the year and they started to struggle until he came back. GB loses Bishop, Perry, Sherrod and Bulaga for the year and I happen to believe we could have given them a better game had these guys played.

The bottom line is Ted will put the players on the field and we will once again have one of the strongest rosters top to bottom in the league. We just can't afford for so many players drafted that high to be on crutches for most the year again.

Just give Arod what we have mostly healthy, infuse some talented draft picks, and we can play with anybody. That many 2nd and 3rd tier players filling in at playoff time just makes it too difficult to win.
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Offline wpr  
#39 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 12:30:52 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: warhawk Go to Quoted Post
Even if we had signed a couple big name FA's in the last few years there is no knowing if that would have made the difference.

Our problem has been we had had too many injuries that have added up to weakness' that could be exploited at playoff time.

Who knows if the FA's signed wouldn't have gotten hurt along with what seems like everybody else? Benson was giving the running game a spark and he went down.

Aside from that who else would not be coming back because of cap issues? No way we can keep important core players like so many teams that dip into the high end FA market.

What would this do to the overall depth of the team? Even with all the injuries we have had over the last few years teams like the Bears can't beat us. Why? We're deeper then they are.

San Francisco lost one DL during the year and they started to struggle until he came back. GB loses Bishop, Perry, Sherrod and Bulaga for the year and I happen to believe we could have given them a better game had these guys played.

The bottom line is Ted will put the players on the field and we will once again have one of the strongest rosters top to bottom in the league. We just can't afford for so many players drafted that high to be on crutches for most the year again.

Just give Arod what we have mostly healthy, infuse some talented draft picks, and we can play with anybody. That many 2nd and 3rd tier players filling in at playoff time just makes it too difficult to win.


newsflash warhawk, not a single thing we do or says will have any bearing on the team. It is all just idle talk and speculation.

As long as you are speculating the FA GB would have signed is injured I can say all 6 of them went on to have Pro Bowl seasons and HoF careers. It still means nothing. We a re just talking.

"What if" added a quality player who helped them, injuries aside, win a few extra playoff games. No one would feel like Uncle Ted overpaid for him.

As for the street FAs- There would still be a few of them on the team. Uncle Ted isn't going to ignore the Tramons and Shields of the NFL if he signs a big butt to play on the DL. He prob wouldn't ignore them if he signed Prime Time Deion when he was still in his prime. Still need the next gen learning and waiting for their chance to step up.

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Offline wpr  
#40 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 12:53:59 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx Go to Quoted Post
Therefore both GMs were/are goods ones to have in their time. Wolf was in an era where he could "wheel and deal" and Ted Thompson builds a team for the long term without mortgaging the future.


It is not mortgaging the future to pick up a high level FA every once in a while. No one is saying to give someone a $100 million 20 year deal like they do in baseball. But picking up an All Pro can make a big difference on the team.

A stud DE can shut down the run and pressure the QB. He makes the secondary better. Prob even makes Hawk look better too. He takes pressure off CM3 and he becomes more effective. One can argue that part of the reason Matthews has pulled hammies all the time is that he is trying too much. Because he is doubled so often he is trying too hard to get to the qb. If he has consistent help he may not feel the need to push himself so much and he could actually play more effectively. No doubt he will also not have to take as long to get the the qb by going further outside or fighting off as many blockers and he will get there sooner.

As stud opposite Clay would have much the same impact.

A big play RB would ease the pressure on AR. (And I have not been a big advocate of going out and getting the rb.) None the less, if he was on the team it would certainly have its benefits.

As Wade mentioned no one is saying pick up 3 a year. No one is saying pay double the going rate for them either.
"You don't hurt 'em if you don't hit 'em." Chesty Puller



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Offline nerdmann  
#41 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 4:00:33 PM(UTC)
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Peppers was a great FA signing. But let's look at it in context. Every year, Lovey was in a position where he had to do something radical to try and save his job. Signing these free agents was a desperation move. In the case of Peppers, it didn't work out to bad. As for Jay Cutler, I think the question of who is the best QB in the division has been answered. LOL
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