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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#31 Posted : Wednesday, January 21, 2015 7:02:01 AM(UTC)

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The idea of this thread was not about Rodgers age or ability. It is about how much better or worse the team around him will be because of the contracts that He and Matthews and at the time, Raji was expected to get in the near future. Right now we are looking, can the team afford to keep Cobb, Bulaga, Williams and the other FA on the team. If we had more money, that wouldn't be an issue and we could keep more better players.

The task of putting the most talented team around Rodgers was easier before Rodgers and Matthews got paid.
Offline wideside  
#32 Posted : Thursday, January 22, 2015 6:02:44 PM(UTC)

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Interesting thread. Here is a stat making the 'window' look a little smaller still. NFCC Championship losers the following year. It is super tough to lose the game and come back which adds a year to Rodgers and even Matthews and Nelson. The window is small indeed.




2004 Falcons (2005 out of playoffs);
2005 Panthers (2006 out of playoffs);
2006 Saints (2007 out of playoffs);
2007 Packers (2008 out of playoffs);
2008 Eagles (2009 lost wildcard round);
2009 Vikings (2010 out of playoffs);
2010 Bears (2011 out of playoffs);
2011 49ers (2012 made Super Bowl);
2012 Falcons (2013 out of playoffs);
2013 49ers (2014 out of playoffs);
2014 Packers (2015??).
Offline hardrocker950  
#33 Posted : Thursday, January 22, 2015 6:17:35 PM(UTC)

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wideside said: Go to Quoted Post
Interesting thread. Here is a stat making the 'window' look a little smaller still. NFCC Championship losers the following year. It is super tough to lose the game and come back which adds a year to Rodgers and even Matthews and Nelson. The window is small indeed.




2004 Falcons (2005 out of playoffs);
2005 Panthers (2006 out of playoffs);
2006 Saints (2007 out of playoffs);
2007 Packers (2008 out of playoffs);
2008 Eagles (2009 lost wildcard round);
2009 Vikings (2010 out of playoffs);
2010 Bears (2011 out of playoffs);
2011 49ers (2012 made Super Bowl);
2012 Falcons (2013 out of playoffs);
2013 49ers (2014 out of playoffs);
2014 Packers (2015??).


That is interesting, but I don't think that necessarily means they will miss the playoffs next season. I am more concerned with the effect that paying Cobb amd Bulaga (assuming they return) will have on the cap status. Due to large contracts, it makes it hard to have a complete team - Seattle will likely fall victim to this soon as well.

The deck is stacked against high caliber teams to keep things competitive, which unfortunately makes it tougher for teams like GB to stay top tier.
Offline Pack93z  
#34 Posted : Friday, January 23, 2015 6:11:16 AM(UTC)

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Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
Much like Flacco's deal.. or Brady's.. Rodgers deal will be structured so that it allows the cap hit yearly to be manageable and something that will be reworked in the future.

That is not minimizing the impacts those contracts will have on our future, but it will be more in the terms of exchanging a Woodson and Pickett for a Matthews and Raji in terms of consumed cap hit. Additionally, Ted has married this team to his more or less building through the draft approach.. so for that window to be pushed even more open again.. he has to hit again this draft for fill in pieces and Mike McCarthy and co need to continue to develop from the past two draft classes.

Looking around the league, almost every contender past the Niners at the moment are having their windows adjusted more than ours. Maybe the Pats.

The nature of a flat cap and many teams pushing out cap hits over the past couple years. The Packers haven't done much of that.. and I don't expect much of it moving forward other than Rodgers.

The Packers have known these three players were coming up.. and entrust they have a plan to manage it and remain very much in the discussion for the Lombardi yearly.


Still remains valid... we pick our spots of depth and contract weight, and recycle. Jones and Hawk will be adjusted/shed in place of Cobb, Bulaga, etc.

Ted continuously puts a team on the field that has enough pieces and depth to be competitive every season, much like this one. It is up to the players and coaching staff to capitalize on that.

We belonged on that field with the Seahawks, and had every opportunity to close the deal. The window remains kicked open.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#35 Posted : Friday, January 23, 2015 1:41:41 PM(UTC)

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Pack93z said: Go to Quoted Post
Ted continuously puts a team on the field that has enough pieces and depth to be competitive every season,


I agree with this, Ted's strategy has kept this team competitive. But is that good enough?

We ended 2014 with between 7-8 million in cap space which we will be moving forward. Could we have used that money in 2014 to improve a position or two enough to had been the difference. It is to late to really know but looking forward.

With that cap spaced moved forward, based on the projected cap we will have 23 million. If we cut ties with Jones and Hawk, that will kick up to about 30 million. Assume we sign Cobb, Bulaga and Tramon, that will likely eat about 12-13 of that space for 2015. That will leave us in the neighborhood of 15-17 million.

Our hopes for SuperBowl 50 will be tied to improvement of Adams, Barrington and R.Rodgers along with hopefully that ILB we have been looking for happening to be there when we pick. Is being competitive and hoping things fall right for us what we want to settle for.

Or

Would it be better to take that available cap and fill our places of need with some veteran FA. What if the best players remaining when we pick are not ILB. Do we reach and grab a lower ILB to try in plug the whole, passing up on better talent because we have a need to fill.

If we had spent that money this year on an upgrade at ILB or kept James Jones, either is probably enough to have us in the SB. We have the money to be able to go for more than just competitive without risking the long term future of the team.

Offline DoddPower  
#36 Posted : Friday, January 23, 2015 3:32:39 PM(UTC)

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PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
If we had spent that money this year on an upgrade at ILB or kept James Jones, either is probably enough to have us in the SB. We have the money to be able to go for more than just competitive without risking the long term future of the team.



The Packers didn't need James Jones or another ILB to get to the Super Bowl. They had the talent to beat the Seahawks, they just imploded and failed to do so. Of course a few better players would help. It always would, but they absolutely should have executed with the unit on the field.

Offline Porforis  
#37 Posted : Friday, January 23, 2015 3:42:15 PM(UTC)

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DoddPower said: Go to Quoted Post
The Packers didn't need James Jones or another ILB to get to the Super Bowl. They had the talent to beat the Seahawks, they just imploded and failed to do so. Of course a few better players would help. It always would, but they absolutely should have executed with the unit on the field.


In fact I think the only position at which the Packers clearly would have been better with someone, anyone but who we have at is TE, primarily this game. But pretty much everyone but Crosby contributed to this loss in a meaningful way. Talking about a 7-8M player making the difference is a huge what-if game.
Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#38 Posted : Friday, January 23, 2015 3:48:25 PM(UTC)

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DoddPower said: Go to Quoted Post
The Packers didn't need James Jones or another ILB to get to the Super Bowl. They had the talent to beat the Seahawks, they just imploded and failed to do so. Of course a few better players would help. It always would, but they absolutely should have executed with the unit on the field.



Since they didn't get to the SB it is hard to say they didn't need additional talent.

Speculation, but having Jones as #3 rather than Adams would have improved the offense which might have allowed us to score more resulting in a bigger score gap. Having Jones could have resulted in a better record changing the game from being in Seattle to GB. Same on the defensive side. Better ILB play would have stopped Seattle from scoring some, or giving us a better record.

With the amount of talent the team already has, I would rather spending a little more to try and improve our odds before we start losing some of these guys. We only have so long for Peppers. Neal and Perry, Daniels will all be coming up on contracts after this next season. With where this team is at, unless we get lucky we are not going to improve more just drafting and develop. With 22 starting positions, we are drafting to keep restocking. It will take something else to push the team a step further.
Offline DoddPower  
#39 Posted : Friday, January 23, 2015 7:38:41 PM(UTC)

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PackFanWithTwins said: Go to Quoted Post
Since they didn't get to the SB it is hard to say they didn't need additional talent.

Speculation, but having Jones as #3 rather than Adams would have improved the offense which might have allowed us to score more resulting in a bigger score gap. Having Jones could have resulted in a better record changing the game from being in Seattle to GB. Same on the defensive side. Better ILB play would have stopped Seattle from scoring some, or giving us a better record.

With the amount of talent the team already has, I would rather spending a little more to try and improve our odds before we start losing some of these guys. We only have so long for Peppers. Neal and Perry, Daniels will all be coming up on contracts after this next season. With where this team is at, unless we get lucky we are not going to improve more just drafting and develop. With 22 starting positions, we are drafting to keep restocking. It will take something else to push the team a step further.


I'm not arguing that better talent wouldn't have helped. Of course it would. It always would. My point was that Green Bay had plenty of talent to win the NFC Championship game. But they didn't. I think they should have. Oh well.
Offline gbguy20  
#40 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2015 4:08:15 AM(UTC)

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I don't think the talent of the team had anything to do with our loss.
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Offline texaspackerbacker  
#41 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2015 4:49:32 AM(UTC)

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I really don't think James Jones would have improved chances. I wouldn't even see him as better than Adams at the same price, much less the inflated amount it would have taken to re-sign him. The problem instead is not making good use of players like Janis at wideout, as well as Eliot and maybe others elsewhere - going with what amounts to a damn seniority system and letting good talent sit inactive or relegated to special teams. Other teams don't do it that way, and are better for using their young talent.

As for the topic of the thread, no way. Aaron Rodgers makes it all possible. I REJECT the notion that Ted Thompson has kept the team good or competitive. He has done his damnedest to keep the team mediocre with basically average talent all around except for our all world QB. That said, we really don't have any great deficiencies either. The window will not close until Rodgers begins to fade, and as was said, that likely won't be for quite a few years.

Much has been said about the cost of keeping Cobb, Bulaga, etc. As someone said, I think, the salary cap keeps increasing. More importantly, though, we could and IMO should come a LOT closer to pushing the limit of the cap. Therein lies my biggest gripe about Ted Thompson. His perceived cheapness comes from an unwarranted (IMO) fear of "cap hell" - getting in a difficult position in future years by pushing things back. It is entirely possible to structure contracts in a backloaded way, large bonuses to satisfy market demands to sign players, but backloaded enough to keep the cap number low. I don't believe Ted comes close to maximizing that. The cap increase alone, much less having aging players move on, makes this doable and safe. We need only to look at Seattle, and before that, the 49ers to see what I'm talking about and how it is NOT a bad thing to push the limit.

So no, the window is not closing, but I also see no end to the not maximizing of the cap and therefore mediocrity of talent other than Rodgers. We are locked in that way as long as Ted is the GM, and he ain't going anywhere as long as his gravy train - Aaron Rodgers is on his game - giving the ilusion that Ted is doing a good job.
Offline nerdmann  
#42 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2015 2:38:21 PM(UTC)

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If Mike and Aaron want championships, then they should step up and win one when one is fucking handed to them on a silver platter.

Otherwise, they can just STFU and go home.
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