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Offline Zero2Cool  
#1 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 5:23:59 AM(UTC)
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Mike McCarthy wrote:
We weren’t regimented enough. That’s definitely the case. The way we practiced the last month of the season wasn’t conducive to getting ready for the kind of scheme that was going to make you play defense and hunker down with your fundamentals.


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Offline play2win  
#2 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 5:31:18 AM(UTC)
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Yeah. It was his responsibility, was it not?

Mike McCarthy has got to upgrade himself if we are going to make any significant changes in improving the team this season. He called horrific games at the start of our season v. SF and SEA. We couldn't afford that. Those losses were squarely on him.
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nerdmann on 3/22/2013(UTC)
Offline Porforis  
#3 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 6:05:14 AM(UTC)
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Two thoughts:
1. It worries me that we weren't prepared. Okay, early on in the season you can get surprised by teams, it happens. But by the postseason, you know what kind of teams people have and there's not that much room for surprises. Absolutely a coaching failure.
2. I'm glad that he's actually taking responsibility, the next step is to not repeat these mistakes.
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Offline play2win  
#4 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 6:17:57 AM(UTC)
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I'd rather SEE toughness than read about it as a concept. I hope he and Ted can transform our team into one that shows real toughness, every week.

I felt we severely lacked toughness twice against SF, and v. SEA, IND, NYG, MIN. We looked like boys amongst men. It's Mike's charge to change that with attitude and preparation. Your team simply cannot show up unprepared.
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nerdmann on 3/22/2013(UTC)
Offline yooperfan  
#5 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 7:25:18 AM(UTC)
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The Packers were woefully unprepared in the playoffs against the Giants, and came into the playoffs unprepared again this year.
Add in his tunnel vision with regard to play calling and one could start to doubt Mike McCarthy regardless of his stellar won loss record.
He just may be too stubborn to make necessary and timely adjustments.
Offline Porforis  
#6 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 7:45:38 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: yooperfan Go to Quoted Post
The Packers were woefully unprepared in the playoffs against the Giants, and came into the playoffs unprepared again this year.
Add in his tunnel vision with regard to play calling and one could start to doubt Mike McCarthy regardless of his stellar won loss record.
He just may be too stubborn to make necessary and timely adjustments.


My memory of the San Fran game is fading a bit, were there major offensive adjustments that needed to be made? All I remember is getting killed on the ground - And that's Capers' territory, not McCarthy.
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Offline Mucky Tundra  
#7 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 8:16:21 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
My memory of the San Fran game is fading a bit, were there major offensive adjustments that needed to be made? All I remember is getting killed on the ground - And that's Capers' territory, not McCarthy.


http://scores.espn.go.co...d=330112025&period=3

Down 7 midway through the 3rd, Mike McCarthy on GBs 3rd possession calls goes with 5 WR shotgun spread 6 straight plays in a row, runs no time off the clock and sends his D, which is already running on fumes, back out to field after the Keapernick 56 yard run for the TD. The previous dive (2nd of the quarter for GB) had GB going out of the shotgun with only 2 rushes by Cobb. If it hadn't been for Aaron Rodgers running for a 1st down on 3rd and long on the 3rd rive it would have been a 3 and out. Mike McCarthy was leaving the defense hanging out to dry and not even bothering with time of possession.
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Offline yooperfan  
#8 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 8:17:15 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
My memory of the San Fran game is fading a bit, were there major offensive adjustments that needed to be made? All I remember is getting killed on the ground - And that's Capers' territory, not McCarthy.


Sorry, I should have been more clear on that.
I was actually alluding to adjustments in training regimen and practice regimen preparing to face the opponent.
If he sees the players not practicing up to his expectations, I think that as head coach he would take steps to somehow rectify that.
It seems that the Packers have a tendancy to come out flat in big games.
As head coach he is supposed to ensure that that doesn't happen.
Sometimes I think Mike McCarthy is too soft on his players.

I'm happy that the Packers are in contention every year, but not satisfied with our playoff preparedness over the last two years.

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Offline wpr  
#9 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 9:15:37 AM(UTC)
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THIS is the quote that worries me.

Quote:

"To me, we're a physical, tough football team," McCarthy said at the National Football League combine. "I totally disagree. I don't know how you can put the tape on and say the Green Bay Packers aren't physical."


Several others of you have also alluded to the team's lack of toughness. I just wanted to get his quote into this thread as well.

Another time Mike points to the ST as being tough ergo the whole franchise is "tough". d'oh!

It takes more than one player or segment of the team to be "tough" to make the whole team "tough". Why not talk about the 2/3 of the team that is actually out on the field for 90% of the snaps?
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#10 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 9:19:01 AM(UTC)
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I have an issue with the original quote because it illustrates he didn't learn from last year as he said something nearly identical. How can you expect a team to be 'on board' with you when you commit the same failure in back to back years?
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Offline play2win  
#11 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 10:06:22 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wpr Go to Quoted Post
THIS is the quote that worries me.



Several others of you have also alluded to the team's lack of toughness. I just wanted to get his quote into this thread as well.

Another time Mike points to the ST as being tough ergo the whole franchise is "tough". d'oh!

It takes more than one player or segment of the team to be "tough" to make the whole team "tough". Why not talk about the 2/3 of the team that is actually out on the field for 90% of the snaps?


I think the toughness needs to start with McCarthy himself. Recognize what needs to be done and do it. If something isn't working, change it. We faced some top pass rushing teams to start the season, and Mike stopped running the football early, allowing those top pass rushers to essentially tee off on Rodgers at will. That to me is stupid.

Talk about fundamentals, how about the fundamentals of the game Mike?

Line your guys up and pound the rock, get the defenders moving backwards. This is what I am talking about in terms of establishing "toughness." I believe it is way, way, WAY more simple than he is making it out to be. If we had 30-40 rushing attempts by our RBs per game, I would guess we would win at least 95% of those games. Especially with what we can do in the air, with one of the best QBs in the NFL. Everything else opens up.

Establish dominance, and toughness, up front. This must happen in McCarthy's own head first. He's got to call it, demand it of his team.
Offline play2win  
#12 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 10:07:43 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
I have an issue with the original quote because it illustrates he didn't learn from last year as he said something nearly identical. How can you expect a team to be 'on board' with you when you commit the same failure in back to back years?


You can't tell this guy anything. That is the sense I get from him. That is not good.
Offline wpr  
#13 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 10:09:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I think the toughness needs to start with McCarthy himself. Recognize what needs to be done and do it. If something isn't working, change it. We faced some top pass rushing teams to start the season, and Mike stopped running the football early, allowing those top pass rushers to essentially tee off on Rodgers at will. That to me is stupid.

Talk about fundamentals, how about the fundamentals of the game Mike?

Line your guys up and pound the rock, get the defenders moving backwards. This is what I am talking about in terms of establishing "toughness." I believe it is way, way, WAY more simple than he is making it out to be. If we had 30-40 rushing attempts by our RBs per game, I would guess we would win at least 95% of those games. Especially with what we can do in the air, with one of the best QBs in the NFL. Everything else opens up.

Establish dominance, and toughness, up front. This must happen in McCarthy's own head first. He's got to call it, demand it of his team.


It certainly does begin with Mike. I don't think he has recognized the real problem nor does he know how to fix it. (Winning record and SB aside.)
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#14 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 10:12:01 AM(UTC)
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How much of this unpreparedness was a result of them taking it easy on those with injuries. I seem to recall down the stretch, a few key players that we not practicing and even playing, trying to heal them fully. Could that have backfired.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#15 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 10:19:18 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
How much of this unpreparedness was a result of them taking it easy on those with injuries. I seem to recall down the stretch, a few key players that we not practicing and even playing, trying to heal them fully. Could that have backfired.


If you are taking it easy when you're 120 minutes away from the Super Bowl. Retire.
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Offline PackFanWithTwins  
#16 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 10:24:28 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
If you are taking it easy when you're 120 minutes away from the Super Bowl. Retire.


Would they have been better if they had pushed Clay, Nelson, Raji and others who all missed time down the stretch. Or would they have been worse by them not being as close to 100%? Either way, can end up biting ya in the ass.
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Offline Porforis  
#17 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 10:24:50 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I think the toughness needs to start with McCarthy himself. Recognize what needs to be done and do it. If something isn't working, change it. We faced some top pass rushing teams to start the season, and Mike stopped running the football early, allowing those top pass rushers to essentially tee off on Rodgers at will. That to me is stupid.

Talk about fundamentals, how about the fundamentals of the game Mike?

Line your guys up and pound the rock, get the defenders moving backwards. This is what I am talking about in terms of establishing "toughness." I believe it is way, way, WAY more simple than he is making it out to be. If we had 30-40 rushing attempts by our RBs per game, I would guess we would win at least 95% of those games. Especially with what we can do in the air, with one of the best QBs in the NFL. Everything else opens up.

Establish dominance, and toughness, up front. This must happen in McCarthy's own head first. He's got to call it, demand it of his team.


That being said, after the Giants game I think (The one where there were 8 sacks in the first half) he really did seem to take the run seriously. And it shows in the run attempts overall.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#18 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 10:32:49 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
Would they have been better if they had pushed Clay, Nelson, Raji and others who all missed time down the stretch. Or would they have been worse by them not being as close to 100%? Either way, can end up biting ya in the ass.


The point being made is you don't play it safe when you're that close to your goal. I don't agree with the excuse that the players weren't maximized to because they were injured/hurt. Every NFL player is hurt after week four of the season through the end. It's a violent game.

The Packers failed in fundamentals. That's why they lost. Contain your lane. Trust your neighbor to do their job. This was not done. Then there's the fact that the 49ers were just clearly the better team.

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Offline play2win  
#19 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 10:37:40 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Porforis Go to Quoted Post
That being said, after the Giants game I think (The one where there were 8 sacks in the first half) he really did seem to take the run seriously. And it shows in the run attempts overall.


You're right Porforis. He did amp up the number of attempts after that glaring shithole of a game and game plan.

But, I think the difference is with his approach. He was almost like, "well, OK, better get some runs in here..." instead of changing focus to a run heavy attack.

Really, if the guy became a "run first, and run often" kind of play caller, the game would be light years different for our team's success. We need the RBs to pull it off, and the right personnel up front.

Jeff Saturday was a huge problem for us at C. So much so, that I don't think any of us could have imagined it possible, from such a well respected veteran. His play became sloppy and ineffective. That hurt a lot. Add Newsome wasn't making any giant steps from 2011 to 2012 in terms of his play, and the numerous injuries at RB and to Bulaga, wow. Good display of excuses/reasons as to why we sucked so badly at this last season.

2013 is a new year. That is primarily why I wanted us to get Steven Jackson. To change the mentality, and our emphasis on offense to a power running team with a lights-out passing game.
Offline QCHuskerFan  
#20 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 10:48:41 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
If you are taking it easy when you're 120 minutes away from the Super Bowl. Retire.


Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins Go to Quoted Post
How much of this unpreparedness was a result of them taking it easy on those with injuries. I seem to recall down the stretch, a few key players that we not practicing and even playing, trying to heal them fully. Could that have backfired.


Hindsight is great. Looking back, my wife should have married someone wealthier. I should have picked winning lottery ticket numbers. Mike McCarthy should have had some more physical practices to prepare for physical running teams we faced late in the year. Brilliant.

Except half our team was wounded. So CM should have been pushed harder in practice? What if he was injured? 100% of Packer Nation would have been apoplectic over the stupidity of injuring your key Defensive player right before a big game.

So it's easy to sit back and know what they should have done because what they did, didn't work. Mike McCarthy is the only one that has to make that decision though. Thankfully, we just have to second guess his wrong decisions.

No, I don't consider the '12 Packers to be a physically intimidating team.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#21 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 10:53:27 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
Hindsight is great. Looking back, my wife should have married someone wealthier. I should have picked winning lottery ticket numbers. Mike McCarthy should have had some more physical practices to prepare for physical running teams we faced late in the year. Brilliant.

Except half our team was wounded. So CM should have been pushed harder in practice? What if he was injured? 100% of Packer Nation would have been apoplectic over the stupidity of injuring your key Defensive player right before a big game.

So it's easy to sit back and know what they should have done because what they did, didn't work. Mike McCarthy is the only one that has to make that decision though. Thankfully, we just have to second guess his wrong decisions.

No, I don't consider the '12 Packers to be a physically intimidating team.


Only difference, I said it during the game, rather loudly if I might add. Plus, this same issue was relevant last offseason too as Mike McCarthy uttered something quite similar regarding the practice regime leading up to the game. He was guarded with it because he didn't want to say he made a mistake by resting players Week 17 of the season.

Hindsight has nothing to do with the point of this. When watching the game and you see a LB facing the wrong way, it doesn't take a genius to realize what went wrong lol (proof of this is I realized it immediately)
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Offline QCHuskerFan  
#22 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 11:38:31 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
Only difference, I said it during the game, rather loudly if I might add. Plus, this same issue was relevant last offseason too as Mike McCarthy uttered something quite similar regarding the practice regime leading up to the game. He was guarded with it because he didn't want to say he made a mistake by resting players Week 17 of the season.

Hindsight has nothing to do with the point of this. When watching the game and you see a LB facing the wrong way, it doesn't take a genius to realize what went wrong lol (proof of this is I realized it immediately)


I sincerely doubt that MM, when planning his practice schedule in early December, designed it to have crappy practices that would not prepare the team adequately. I am confident that he, working with the rest of the coaches, thought it through and designed it to get the team ready to play. It failed. It's easier to see that now, or last month or during the stretch of games at the end of the year than it was before they planned it out. That's why it's hindsight. We are realizing after the practices that they were not successful in preparing the team to play those physical games.
Mike McCarthy can essentially say 3 things with regard to the end of the year.
1. "We didn't prepare properly." Which he did. Honest. Disappointing, but honest.
2. "I thought we did a good job preparing." Naive, stupid, and or blatanly lying.
3. "We beat the Bears again this year! What more do you want?" Always good, but no longer as meaningful as it was a few years ago.

There are only about 1 or 2 coaches that do not spend the offseason getting second guessed. Goint 19-0 and winning the SB is about the only way to make sure it can't happen.
Offline play2win  
#23 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 11:44:13 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post

There are only about 1 or 2 coaches that do not spend the offseason getting second guessed. Goint 19-0 and winning the SB is about the only way to make sure it can't happen.


Well, let's just hope he does that! I'd love to see it.
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Offline Zero2Cool  
#24 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 12:24:32 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
I sincerely doubt that MM, when planning his practice schedule in early December, designed it to have crappy practices that would not prepare the team adequately.

Who the heck said anything of the sort? You're reaching here ... massively reaching. :)

My concern (as I have already said) stems from the head coach saying basically the same thing this offseason as he did the prior offseason. I'm confident he made some changes, it just concerns me that he didn't identify the problem as thoroughly as I hoped. Keep in mind, it's not as if he said "Oh, I know exactly what went wrong last time and it won't happen next time".

I go back to my theory ... that if the Packers defensively focus on fundamentals of playing defense ... e.g. tackling properly and trusting one another ... the defense improves. Offensively, I think the only tweak that needs to be made is going from this blend zone blocking scheme or whatever it is called to a more power O. I want fatties pummeling other fatties.


Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan Go to Quoted Post
There are only about 1 or 2 coaches that do not spend the offseason getting second guessed. Goint 19-0 and winning the SB is about the only way to make sure it can't happen.

lol I beg to differ... I can see dhazer and nerdmann second guessing the HC after Super Bowl win... oh wait, they did!!!
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Offline Wade  
#25 Posted : Friday, March 22, 2013 1:24:08 PM(UTC)
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To modify something I heard Rodgers shout in one of those pre-game huddle things, the team needs the following attitude in all things.

1. Dominate!
2. Dominate!
3. Dominate!
1,2,3 (and 4,5,6, ...) Dominate!

One of McCarthy's problems over the years is that he has a tendency toward trying to finesse things. Trying to trick people. Trying to fool people. Trying to be smarter than the other guy.

Those things are okay from time to time, but not as a consistent approach.

That IMO was set Lombardi apart from every Packer coach since. It wasn't the fact that he had more Hall of Famers. It wasn't even the Packer sweep. It was that Lombardi teams week in and week out had a take no prisoners approach. Their intent was not to just win. Their intent was to impose their will on the other team. Their intent was to destroy the other team's will to win.

It didn't always work because no one wins every time they are on the field. But *that* was a winning attitude.

Holmgren didn't have it. Someone who has it not only never lets the other team score to get the ball back. They never contemplate letting the other team score because they already *know* they are going to get the ball back. Because they are going to impose their will and make them give it back.

And, I fear, neither does McCarthy.

Does that mean the Packers will never get back to the Super Bowl with McCarthy? No. They may. Finesse coaches can win championships. Holmgren won one. McCarthy won one. It can be done.

But it definitely decreases the odds.

And unless McCarthy recognizes this finesse tendency of his and works at eliminating it, it decreases those odds more each year.

Because it's a lot easier for the other guy to destroy the will of someone who depends on finesse than it is to destroy the will of someone who knows they have the strongest will to dominate.

Ask our resident Marine. No one knows this better than the Marine Corps. And that's why they are more consistently successful than any other military group in our nation's history. They know it isn't about finessing things.

Finesse is for bridge and synchronized swimming and corporate lawyers.
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Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
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play2win on 3/22/2013(UTC), yooperfan on 3/22/2013(UTC), nerdmann on 3/22/2013(UTC)
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