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Offline Pack93z  
#11 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 8:23:44 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I'm not following you. Shields just got slapped with a 2nd Round RFA tender. He was arrested for marijuana possession and killed his draft chances, signed as a UFA in 2010.

2006 Williams signed with Houston as an UFA, was released, then signed with GB. Those are hardly top talent FA signings at those times.

Have they worked out well? Absolutely. Thompson rolled the dice and won with both players. However, both of those guys were just happy to find a team to play with. My point is some of the FAs that are less of a risk because they are known quantities, those top players at their positions. It appears they don't want to come here. They include us in their schedules, mostly to drive their price higher, but they don't seem truly interested in coming to GB.

And, of course, Thompson doesn't give a whole lot of chase. Not a slam, it is just his way. But, is this a detriment?


To me.. it is the accumulation of those types of moves that really good teams make, keeping their salary caps in check and providing a deep and talented team.

If anything, the Packers drafts have provided good players, but has been a bit light on the home run hits. Matthews and Rodgers.. home runs. Jennings.. home run. Raji looked like he could have been one.. but consistency seems to escape him. There are more.. but the point is either we haven't gotten lucky enough or that when drafting we shade towards the players we think have a better chance of not busting out and contributing then taking larger risks with guys that might have a higher ceiling but also a bust factor.

We also have had some poor luck in terms of injuries.. Example is losing Collins at his prime. Justin Harrell failing to bounce back and reach anything close to his potential. Bulaga and a developing player like Quarless and Sherrod sustaining drastic injuries. Those are some rather large hits to the core of this team.

But I think it ultra wise to comb through talent to find guys that fit and come in with a chance to develop and contribute. There is a reason we attract so many undrafted players after each draft.. because Ted and Co. have no qualms of adding talent that might need time to develop.

Again.. this NFL season is only a few weeks old.. I am confident as the season and rosters take shape we will add not only youth but a few well placed Veteran Free Agents to form a deep and talented roster.

I think more falls on the coaches to utilize that talent more effectively this season than last.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline DoddPower  
#12 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 8:30:15 AM(UTC)
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Marshawn Lynch would have been great, but that's been covered over and over. Seattle had a higher pick to give up. Additionally, in what position would the Packers be salary cap wise right now even if they would have gotten Lynch? He is set to make $8.5 million this season, $7 the next, and $9 the next (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/marshawn-lynch/). I believe he only had one year left when they traded for him. It was definitely a risky trade in many regards that just happened to work out. Having a salary like that on the books would no doubt complicate things otherwise on the Packers roster. Additionally, his stats have been great, but it's a completely different team and system. Obviously he would be an upgrade in talent, but it's very unlikely he would have the same stats on the Packers roster. Again, the bigger problem comes down to the emphasis on the run game and balance, as the Packers were having some success late in the season when they actually ran. It would take a lot of convincing for me to believe Lynch would be worth almost $9 million/year given all the other players that need resigning.

Trades and player acquisitions just aren't as simple as they appear on the surface to us fans. There's so much that goes into the transactions, and a lot of the considerations are 2, 3, or 4 years down the line. I'm sure Ted Thompson would love to sign many other players. However, he has a budget to work with that is well studied and thought out beforehand, and he can't/won't go beyond that; and he shouldn't.
thanks Post received 1 applause.
Pack93z on 3/29/2013(UTC)
Offline Zero2Cool  
#13 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 8:30:34 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
I'm not following you. Shields just got slapped with a 2nd Round RFA tender. He was arrested for marijuana possession and killed his draft chances, signed as a UFA in 2010.

2006 Williams signed with Houston as an UFA, was released, then signed with GB. Those are hardly top talent FA signings at those times.

Have they worked out well? Absolutely. Thompson rolled the dice and won with both players. However, both of those guys were just happy to find a team to play with. My point is some of the FAs that are less of a risk because they are known quantities, those top players at their positions. It appears they don't want to come here. They include us in their schedules, mostly to drive their price higher, but they don't seem truly interested in coming to GB.

And, of course, Thompson doesn't give a whole lot of chase. Not a slam, it is just his way. But, is this a detriment?


You pine for free agent signings, but yet the free agent signings that have worked out well for the Packers you ignore. Have you ever even looked at how many free agent signings the Packers have on their roster? Check it out, - link.

Oh wait, that doesn't matter because they weren't BIG NAME OVER PRICED players that their own team no longer wanted. My mistake, I'll step down ... carry on.
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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thanks Post received 2 applause.
DoddPower on 3/29/2013(UTC), earthquake on 3/29/2013(UTC)
Offline warhawk  
#14 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 8:43:41 AM(UTC)
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I look at teams like the Bears that have made some pretty big FA moves to elevate them above the Packers and it's not working. They gave up several draft picks along the way ultimately not giving them fresh talent to develop.

They got old quick on the defensive side of the ball and also sacrificed quality depth having to pay these players they brought in.

I remember back in '05 thinking "we're in trouble". The quality players we had on the roster were getting old and we had no infusion of young and upcoming talent because Sherman totally sucked in the draft.

It would be nice if we could keep some of the better young players on the field instead of leading the league in missed games by starters due to injury. The thing I see as far more the problem than a FA here or there taking us to the SB.

"The train is leaving the station."
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Pack93z on 3/29/2013(UTC)
Offline play2win  
#15 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 8:44:54 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Just thinking back to the last couple of SB champs.. and cannot think of a single high profile Veteran Unrestricted Free Agent that was signed that spearheaded them to the title.

Last season.. Boldin had been there a couple years off a trade. Birk did I believe ink a FA deal a few years prior.

Giants - Canty comes to mind.. but past that I can't think of one impact FA.

Packers.. Woodson, Pickett but that has been discussed. Walden was a UFA.


I might have to comb through the last say five years if I find the time to see if I am missing something.. but I think more of it is drafted and growing your own.. and augmenting the roster with depth that fills needs. But sitting on the front line and signing a splashy expensive UFA... can't say there have been many.

Saints might have been the last real blended team with any number of UFA.


Good call Pack93z!

CB Jabari Greer BUF
CB Chris McCallister BAL
SS Pierson Prioleau JAX
FS Darren Sharper MIN
Offline Pack93z  
#16 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 8:50:52 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pack93z Go to Quoted Post
Just thinking back to the last couple of SB champs.. and cannot think of a single high profile Veteran Unrestricted Free Agent that was signed that spearheaded them to the title.

Last season.. Boldin had been there a couple years off a trade. Birk did I believe ink a FA deal a few years prior.

Giants - Canty comes to mind.. but past that I can't think of one impact FA.

Packers.. Woodson, Pickett but that has been discussed. Walden was a UFA.


I might have to comb through the last say five years if I find the time to see if I am missing something.. but I think more of it is drafted and growing your own.. and augmenting the roster with depth that fills needs. But sitting on the front line and signing a splashy expensive UFA... can't say there have been many.

Saints might have been the last real blended team with any number of UFA.


I forgot a large at for the Packers in 2010.. Howard Green. Huge addition.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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Offline play2win  
#17 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 8:51:51 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool Go to Quoted Post
You pine for free agent signings, but yet the free agent signings that have worked out well for the Packers you ignore. Have you ever even looked at how many free agent signings the Packers have on their roster? Check it out, - link.

Oh wait, that doesn't matter because they weren't BIG NAME OVER PRICED players that their own team no longer wanted. My mistake, I'll step down ... carry on.


WTF?

I pined for a -proper- pass rusher to be added to our team after winning the SB and losing Cullen Jenkins. What is wrong with that?

Hargrove
Muir
Mehrling

Those are not proper. Those are bargain bin players. Maybe 3rd or 4th tier FAs. Why are your undies in a twist over this? Because we signed Hawk to his monster deal? Finley? Crosby? And now Brad Jones?

How have those worked out for us? If Bish comes back healthy, it is either Hawk or Jones who will be riding some very expensive pine...

Oh wait, that doesn't matter because they were BIG NAME OVER PRICED Packers....Flapper
Offline Zero2Cool  
#18 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 9:13:31 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: play2win Go to Quoted Post
WTF?

I pined for a -proper- pass rusher to be added to our team after winning the SB and losing Cullen Jenkins. What is wrong with that?

Hargrove
Muir
Mehrling

Those are not proper. Those are bargain bin players. Maybe 3rd or 4th tier FAs. Why are your undies in a twist over this? Because we signed Hawk to his monster deal? Finley? Crosby? And now Brad Jones?

How have those worked out for us? If Bish comes back healthy, it is either Hawk or Jones who will be riding some very expensive pine...

Oh wait, that doesn't matter because they were BIG NAME OVER PRICED Packers....Flapper


Nothing is wrong with wanting your team to be better. I won't dispute at all that the A.J. Hawk contract threw me a little. I think he's a good player, just not a monster contract worthy player. Mason Crosby deal I thought was good at the time because he was doing well. Hindsight from last season makes it easy to whine about that one now though. Brad Jones, I'm not sure of his contract details, but I read some folks saying he did really well last season. Well enough to earn that contract? I dunno, but I trust the Packers and they seem to think so.

I will say this, in the 3 - 4 you can never have too many solid linebackers. Maybe the contract signed by Brad Jones is indicative of the lack of depth at the position below the top three and they didn't want to risk it?

There are only a handful of NFL players that I feel are not overpaid. I still think they should have a wage scale like the rookies do.

You also have to understand that the Packers don't have a billionaire owner that can eat up some of the mistake signings too. That seems to be lost a lot of times. The Packers have to be very calculated and low risk in order to stay afloat, especially since the Packers play in an open stadium in the NFL's smallest city that also happens to be quite cold. Factor everything in ... you'll be more objective.

Wait, no, don't do that. It is fun having these debates, lol. :)
"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything." - Nikola Tesla

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Offline steveishere  
#19 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 9:22:23 AM(UTC)
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All I know is that every March the Packers "get worse" while the rest of the North "gets better" then the Packers end up as the best team in the division. Must be magic.
thanks Post received 3 applause.
Pack93z on 3/29/2013(UTC), Zero2Cool on 3/29/2013(UTC), QCHuskerFan on 3/29/2013(UTC)
Offline Pack93z  
#20 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 9:24:19 AM(UTC)
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Brad Jones contract to me.. really isn't that awful..


Code:

YEAR	   BASE	     S. BONUS	  MISC.	   CAP HIT	    DEAD
2013	 1,000,000	 1,000,000	 500,000	2,500,000	 3,000,000
2014	 2,500,000	 1,000,000	 500,000	4,000,000	 2,000,000
2015	 3,250,000	 1,000,000	 500,000	4,750,000	 1,000,000


Looking at what guys like Walden got on the open market.. it is in line. If we need to get out of it.. 2015 we walk away with a million dollar hit.

If we really want to stop it.. then we the consumers have to reduce the pure amount of interest and money poured into it.. otherwise.. it is all relative to the massive amount of cash it generates. the NFL or any of the sports leagues.
I think when there's enough will and aggression, there's no shortage of talent either.

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thanks Post received 2 applause.
Zero2Cool on 3/29/2013(UTC), DoddPower on 3/29/2013(UTC)
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